Stock Vehicles in the Wild ???
- Thread starter swrider
- Start date
superbuickguy
Explorer
I'll play
stock - lockers on both ends (which are factory), V8, 33s....
stock - lockers on both ends (which are factory), V8, 33s....
Stryder106
Explorer
^^THIS^^
When I do the mods to my Avalanche and/or kit - they fall into one of (or ideally multiple) the following categories: Capability, Reliability, Recoverability, Survivability.
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Capability - What allows me to go places I couldn't go before but want to go to - and expand the envelope so that I am operating more in the midrange rather than at the extreme edge of what my vehicle can do. Or allows me to do so for longer durations and distances.
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Reliability - What decreases the risk of breakdown or damage
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Recoverability - If I get in over my head, what allows me to self recover (we do a lot of solo stuff)
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Survivability - In the event of emergency, terminal breakdown or inability to self-recover - ability to communicate (globally), survive, and (if need be) hike for up to the planned trip length plus 3 days.
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I guess one of my points is that being remote with a vehicle that really isn't designed for - or modified - for the purpose, then there should be more of an emphasis on those last three areas. My $.02, and I expect some change.
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I guess I would fall into that class of folks who have stuff on their vehicle: winch, Hi-Lift, Max Trax, Rotopax, etc. But, there is a LOT of money spent on things you don't see: gears, tie-rods, steering components, aftermarket trans and converter, oil coolers, etc. Whatever vehicle you choose to use (I look down on no one as to what they drive) it is wise to understand the weakpoints and address them in a planned out manner at home rather than in a crisis in the middle of nowhere. Even then, stuff still can and does happen. Most importantly - have fun!!!
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Menard_LaPue
New member
Ford Expedition, stock highway tires and I put in a lot of miles on rugged dirt in Nevada for work. Typically I am 100 miles from pavement, wandering down old road or wadis, river beds, old mining roads. But I have to say, I am tired of all the flat tires and banging rocks on the bottom, and digging out after high-centering. Especially with that crummy jack. 4-wheel drive takes me a lot of places and I almost never use low range. Therefore, I have upgraded to 1) 2" lift, 2) 33" 10-ply rated tires (Hercules AT), 3) Skid plates, 4) remove the plastic sissy-steps, which were broken from something anyways.
The performance increase from these small steps is really enormous. I still drive the same types of places, but with more confidence and less rock dragging and high-centering. Still wondering about getting stuck in the playa with the aggressive tires, because the bald ones worked ok on the sand, but thinking about air pressure now.
The performance increase from these small steps is really enormous. I still drive the same types of places, but with more confidence and less rock dragging and high-centering. Still wondering about getting stuck in the playa with the aggressive tires, because the bald ones worked ok on the sand, but thinking about air pressure now.
Mundo4x4Casa
West slope, N. Ser. Nev.
Give me a driver with a LOT of off-road, 4x4 experience and they can estimate how far to go with a 2WD; any 2WD. In fact, the best time ever was off roading with a tiny Japanese rental SUV. "4 wheel drive will just get you farther before you get stuck" is an old wives tale repeated by people who have never been hard core enough to understand the dynamics of off road. The secret is meeting the edge of stuck, over and over again. In my 1.5 million miles driving some kind of four wheel drive, only a small fraction of those miles were actually in 4WD. The better my technique got out in the goo, snow, or the rocks, the less I actually used 4WD, instead relying on my experience to "feel" and massage the traction and put the tires in exactly the right place to have dependable forward motion. With experience you know when to stop: just before you get stuck. Here's the partial list of 4-byes:
1949 Willys Ute Wagon with Chevy V8, SOA, and overdrive.
1966 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-40 with factory PTO winch.
1970 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-55 with Chevy V8, Power Lok, and Warn 8K winch
1973 Jeep J-4000 Gladiator Pickup. sturdy drivetrain.
1980 International Traveller, 118" w.b. with factory Nissan 3.3L turbo diesel, tracklocs, SOA and T-19.
1982 Jeep CJ-8, SOA with only the tub and most of the frame stock original. About a dozen roll overs.
1989 Jeep XJ, Renix 4.0L, I-6
1990 Jeep XJ, Renix 4.0L, I-6 (rolled this one off a cliff in Telluride, CO)
1999 Jeep XJ, MPI 4.0L, I-6 with lockers and a 3" lift
2001.5 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins with True Tracs, both ends.
2004 Nissan Murano SE package with the maximum traction additives.
2008 Kioti 4WD, 35 HP, 3 cyl, normally aspirated diesel tractor with foot pedal rr locker.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with actual low range.
jefe
1949 Willys Ute Wagon with Chevy V8, SOA, and overdrive.
1966 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-40 with factory PTO winch.
1970 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-55 with Chevy V8, Power Lok, and Warn 8K winch
1973 Jeep J-4000 Gladiator Pickup. sturdy drivetrain.
1980 International Traveller, 118" w.b. with factory Nissan 3.3L turbo diesel, tracklocs, SOA and T-19.
1982 Jeep CJ-8, SOA with only the tub and most of the frame stock original. About a dozen roll overs.
1989 Jeep XJ, Renix 4.0L, I-6
1990 Jeep XJ, Renix 4.0L, I-6 (rolled this one off a cliff in Telluride, CO)
1999 Jeep XJ, MPI 4.0L, I-6 with lockers and a 3" lift
2001.5 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins with True Tracs, both ends.
2004 Nissan Murano SE package with the maximum traction additives.
2008 Kioti 4WD, 35 HP, 3 cyl, normally aspirated diesel tractor with foot pedal rr locker.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with actual low range.
jefe
STREGA
Explorer
Once again Jefe has it right.
When Toyota introduced the FJ Cruiser in 2006 they took a totally stock (except tires) FJC through the Rubicon driven by Bill Burke and Tom Collins IIRC. Being experienced drivers they were able to negotiate the whole trail without any body damage to the FJC. Yes the FJC is a very capable vehicle in stock form it really comes down to the drivers ability.
When Toyota introduced the FJ Cruiser in 2006 they took a totally stock (except tires) FJC through the Rubicon driven by Bill Burke and Tom Collins IIRC. Being experienced drivers they were able to negotiate the whole trail without any body damage to the FJC. Yes the FJC is a very capable vehicle in stock form it really comes down to the drivers ability.
Kevin108
Explorer
A few years ago, I had the guys in built JKs on 35s and 37s shaking their heads at what my stock XJ on Michelin street tires could do. I had a rear locker and cowl snorkel, but they didn't need to know about those. 
eepwall: We were only riding through Shoe Creek. They seemed to think the trail was a lot harder than it was, airing down and disconnecting sway bars. It was a hoot!
eepwall: We were only riding through Shoe Creek. They seemed to think the trail was a lot harder than it was, airing down and disconnecting sway bars. It was a hoot!
Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
...On the other hand virtually all the above pics (except for one snow pic) so far show vehicle on easy terrain; the answer is once again "It depends."
over the years I see some pretty good stock 4WD vehicles i.e. solid axle Toyotas and some OK ones (some subarus) in a range of terrains... I also see lots fairly good, ranging from stock to moderately heavily modified, vehicles nearly terminally stuck and or broken because of driver error...
IMO, half, or less, of off roadability is the vehicle; half, or more, is the driver skill and half is the vehicle prep (starting with tires and air pressure and expanding through gearing and lockers) ... I realize that this amounts to more than 100% but deficiency in any of these areas can result in a Stuck. Although adequacy in any 2 of the three CAN (this is not assured) result in successful negotiation of the trail/off road obstacle... and make good video (note; a well driven, well prepped vehicle, off road, should be almost boring to watch, IMO).
Recently I started modding my camping vehicle (explorer) for light to moderate (some chance of body damage, 4wd, and high ground clearance required) use. The first step was to get a minimum of a limited slip in the front axle and the second is to install a selectable locker in the rear (to make up for the anticipated wheels in the air that the, abysmal, IFS virtually assures)... and this is for off road camping; NOT difficult/significant wheeling.
Enjoy!
over the years I see some pretty good stock 4WD vehicles i.e. solid axle Toyotas and some OK ones (some subarus) in a range of terrains... I also see lots fairly good, ranging from stock to moderately heavily modified, vehicles nearly terminally stuck and or broken because of driver error...
IMO, half, or less, of off roadability is the vehicle; half, or more, is the driver skill and half is the vehicle prep (starting with tires and air pressure and expanding through gearing and lockers) ... I realize that this amounts to more than 100% but deficiency in any of these areas can result in a Stuck. Although adequacy in any 2 of the three CAN (this is not assured) result in successful negotiation of the trail/off road obstacle... and make good video (note; a well driven, well prepped vehicle, off road, should be almost boring to watch, IMO).
Recently I started modding my camping vehicle (explorer) for light to moderate (some chance of body damage, 4wd, and high ground clearance required) use. The first step was to get a minimum of a limited slip in the front axle and the second is to install a selectable locker in the rear (to make up for the anticipated wheels in the air that the, abysmal, IFS virtually assures)... and this is for off road camping; NOT difficult/significant wheeling.
Enjoy!
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NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
All of my vehicles are stock except for slightly larger tires, 265/75-16 instead of usually 245/75-16 and I have yet to feel the need for a lift, air lockers, sliders or any of the like products, it's all about knowing the limitations of your vehicle, I don't rock climb or mudbog and I don't need a bro' truck, I think I have seen more of my state than anybody I know because I'm out exploring as often as I can, if I can't get to where exactly I want I load up the backpack and the dogs and I head out, I'd rather walk to than break my rig!! Being out exploring is where the happiness is and that's where I go!
Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
... No insult meant but having heard it all and seen a lot of it over the years; most people really don't know how poorly vehicles can perform..
Here is a typical example (albeit slightly muddy and hills always look flatter on video)... be aware that after the mods the hill is dry, so the results are more than slightly distorted.
https://www.powernationtv.com/episode/XO2017-13/jeep-jk-before-and-after
Please also note that I would, personally, never destroy the look of a vehicle the with the flair delete and front bumper mods that are shown...
I can't begin to count the "I can go any where I want" vehicles that I have pushed by hand, strapped, or winched over very easy obstacles at our easy camp and otherplaces; (likely a bit jaded here, but its the result of many years/decades of listening to, pushing and pulling, inexperienced people and bench wheelers).
Mostly; with some experience at picking a line and better than OEM/stock tires, stock vehicles can work ok for light dry mostly flat wheeling; with some driving/line picking, experience (and a few beginner enhancements like 10 psi air, don't forget to air back up for the road, in the tires and disconnected sway bars). Do I need lockers; no, not for most things (at least until the poorly designed OEM, IFS suspension lifts a tire), but if I am going to camp where I prefer, or there is a surprise snowstorm in June or September at 10000 feet, while camped, I want to able to get home/drive out (no cell service, no tows, no help available). Note; most here likely don't drive the trails (not roads) or camp the way some prefer so for them 2wd will let them explore many roads... match the vehicle and mods to the use and terrain, and as has been said drive intelligently.
Enjoy!
Here is a typical example (albeit slightly muddy and hills always look flatter on video)... be aware that after the mods the hill is dry, so the results are more than slightly distorted.
https://www.powernationtv.com/episode/XO2017-13/jeep-jk-before-and-after
Please also note that I would, personally, never destroy the look of a vehicle the with the flair delete and front bumper mods that are shown...
I can't begin to count the "I can go any where I want" vehicles that I have pushed by hand, strapped, or winched over very easy obstacles at our easy camp and otherplaces; (likely a bit jaded here, but its the result of many years/decades of listening to, pushing and pulling, inexperienced people and bench wheelers).
Mostly; with some experience at picking a line and better than OEM/stock tires, stock vehicles can work ok for light dry mostly flat wheeling; with some driving/line picking, experience (and a few beginner enhancements like 10 psi air, don't forget to air back up for the road, in the tires and disconnected sway bars). Do I need lockers; no, not for most things (at least until the poorly designed OEM, IFS suspension lifts a tire), but if I am going to camp where I prefer, or there is a surprise snowstorm in June or September at 10000 feet, while camped, I want to able to get home/drive out (no cell service, no tows, no help available). Note; most here likely don't drive the trails (not roads) or camp the way some prefer so for them 2wd will let them explore many roads... match the vehicle and mods to the use and terrain, and as has been said drive intelligently.
Enjoy!
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Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
Yep! driving on slickrock (special case) is fun, amazing traction; and vehicles, even some stock vehicles, can do amazing things... had to tow a Montero through most of Poison Spyder/Golden Spike (Moab Ut.) because it wouldn't do it any other way, in spite of the sandpaper like slickrock traction though... seems like vehicles can almost always drive into things they cannot drive out of...
...had to tow another stock Montero (I don't mean to pick on Monteros, I'm certain that my Explorer would do little better, until the mods are complete; stock (with poor/stock tires) is the operative word) back up from the river at Metbury gulch (slightly harder than easy) near Divide Colorado ... (apparently gravity works).
IMO, it is better to have a vehicle that will go more places than you are willing to take it than to miss places like Medano pass north of the Great Sand Dunes Nat'l Monument and Mt. Blanca/Como lake, and higher, a bit south east of the the same...
... the rock sliders and tires say; probably not entirely stock...
Enjoy!
...had to tow another stock Montero (I don't mean to pick on Monteros, I'm certain that my Explorer would do little better, until the mods are complete; stock (with poor/stock tires) is the operative word) back up from the river at Metbury gulch (slightly harder than easy) near Divide Colorado ... (apparently gravity works).
IMO, it is better to have a vehicle that will go more places than you are willing to take it than to miss places like Medano pass north of the Great Sand Dunes Nat'l Monument and Mt. Blanca/Como lake, and higher, a bit south east of the the same...
... the rock sliders and tires say; probably not entirely stock...
Enjoy!
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p nut
butter
I don't think anyone is saying you should take stock rigs down any trail, or use it outside of its capability. But some people automatically think anything off pavement needs mods. There are plenty of trails to be travelled in stock trucks. "Don't let your stock truck keep you from exploring" seems to be the tone of the OP.
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I'm too impatient to spend all day crawling through something I can take on my ATV or bike 10 times faster anyway.
So my truck will stay stock.