Isolated solar set-up for fridge. questions / help needed.

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Yea, 270w would do it.

The 24v doesn't matter - as long as the Vmp is 16v or higher it will charge a 12v battery. And the MPPT function will still get the max watts that the panel is capable of at any given moment. Of course, the hotter the panel gets, the more the max possible watts goes down.

Worst case scenario: dead battery @ 10.5v...

270w ÷ 10.5v = 25.7a

Add in a fudge factor for if the panel is freezing cold and putting out more than 270w, and you still don't need a charge controller rated higher than 30a. Oh, it won't hurt anything to have one rated for 40a, but it's more than you'd need.



Better would be a smaller fridge. Do you really need such a beast for weekend trips? I mean sure, the free bottle opener is awesome, but still...

Weight is the enemy. Smaller fridge, less battery to run it and less solar needed to recharge.
 

blackohio

Observer
Better would be a smaller fridge. Do you really need such a beast for weekend trips? I mean sure, the free bottle opener is awesome, but still...

Theres 2 things at play here, we have 2 of these fridges, one for our demo show truck and one in mine. Both need sustained weekend usage for events / camping etc. The demo fridge will have solar panels mounted to roof of trailer and I can run as many as needed there as well as however many batteries. The trailer has a generator so we could rapid charge batteries there. Im a bit constrained with space and set-up in the truck. I didnt want to run a dual battery set-up in the engine as i'll eat $500 in mount and charge controller there alone, which I could better put to use in otg power.

Since the fridge can run 12/24 would it be dumb to get the 280w 24v panel, a 12/24 mppt controller and a 300ah 24v battery? Is there a giant negative to this? Am I well under the need for a 24v system at my wattage? Am i wrong in thinking I need 200-250 ah battery? I see the posted above talking about using 35ah-55ah battery.

lastly, am i cluster****ign this to hell in thinking run 24v 280 watt panel, sensing controller to 2x 6v 225 ah batteries. Is that a power no no.
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
There's no real advantage to 24v over 12v except that you can run smaller wire (double the voltage, halve the amperage) and save a few bucks on copper.

But 12v is compatible with everything, so if you wanted to run a fan, or inverter or whatever off your battery bank, having the bank at 12v makes it easy.

Sure, you can buy a 24v->12v converter to run 12v stuff off a 24v battery bank, but for most setups it's better to just rig the batteries for 12v.

And even running at 24v, the fridge still draws 66w, the solar still produces 270w. The bottom line doesn't change. 150ah of battery at 24v is exactly the same as 300ah of battery at 12v.

300ah x 12v = 3600 watt*hours
150ah x 24v = 3600wh (3.6kwh)


And lastly, no you're not crazy. You can rig your solar for 24v and rig your battery for 12v. You have to use an MPPT controller to do it (PWM controllers don't down convert voltage like MPPT controllers do). And since you'd need an MPPT controller anyway, why not rig the solar side for a higher voltage and save a few bucks on copper wire. Most people do.




(Keep in mind the difference between "nominal" voltage and actual voltage. A "12v nominal" solar panel has a Vmp of 15v or more so it can charge a "12v nominal" battery. Most have a Vmp around 17v-18v. A "24v nominal" solar panel has a Vmp of 30v or more. Most have a Vmp around 34v-36v.

So a panel with a Vmp of 24v is actually a "12v nominal" panel since it doesn't produce a high enough voltage to fully charge a 24v battery bank.)
 

blackohio

Observer
this went for easy, to ******, to easy, to hmmm easy-ish.

I think my 280W 24V panel, feeding into the mppt controller, and to 2x 6v 225ah batteries is still the way to go. Although a 150ah 24V battery is both cheaper in product and wiring than 6v / 12v setups. I assume it'll generate less heat across the lines as well both in/out at a lower amperage as well. The battery and controller will be mounted under the truck in a sealed box where the spare tire used to be so its out of the way. Still going to side mount the panel on the articulating arm on the bed rack, because why not.

I talked with todd at Sno Master a well a bit today and he confirmed the 280/225ah setup would be more than enough since as not all time will be stationary and I can run fridge from trucks 100watt panel in the back while driving.
 

OCD Overland

Explorer
Just remember that if you have just one panel, a stray shadow can knock the power down considerably. Same if you wire two panels in series for 24v, then if one is shaded, you lose power from both.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Just remember that if you have just one panel, a stray shadow can knock the power down considerably. Same if you wire two panels in series for 24v, then if one is shaded, you lose power from both.

Depends. Two panels will probably have 2 bypass diodes each. Figure Vmp 18v so rigged in series for 36v, shade causing a single bypass drops the voltage by 9v. So 36v, 27v, 18v.

Even two bypasses caused by partial shading would still have a high enough voltage to charge a 12v battery - but with half the amperage.
 

blackohio

Observer
Should be more than enough, which is always good.

The 280W panel is way too big for application. I had written its dims down incorrectly. Max size I can run is 20x48 (which is about the size of the 100 watt panel) on each side of the truck. So that leads me to mounting a 100wt to each side. with the ability to swing each around towards sun or parallel to earth. but with the above mentioned sun/shade issue it might sound like for a my specific needs a single 100 watt panel and just live with potentially shorter duration or mixed power use on the fridge. ie, fridge only draws while stationary.


Looking at batteries its looks like the 12V Rolls Surette 200AH is the winner here at cost per aH
https://www.thesolarbiz.com/media/catalog/product/r/o/Rolls-Surrette-S-260-Data-Sheet.pdf

-or-
This Trojan 6C T105-RE thats 225AH
https://www.thesolarbiz.com/media/catalog/product/t/r/Trojan_T105-RE_Data_Sheets.pdf

The advantage of the Rolls battery is roughly 20 lbs lighter. and roughly the same size, Im guess cable size and heat across those would be less than the 6V batteries as well. I know this is alot of questions and im super thankful for your help,.
 

vtsoundman

OverAnalyzer
Don't waste your money on non mppt controller...ever. If you already own a controller, get an MPPT controller as the first upgrade. MPPT will yield 10-30% more energy over non MPPT. Flat mounting modules vs angled towards the sun is worth another 10-30%.

You know more about the dynamics of that swing arm more than us. Solar panels are relatively light, but make great wind sails. My guess is the arm will support the module in little wind while stationary.

Get a charger that can be custom set to your battery and run in absorption mode for your AGM (14.6-14.8V) at full current...it will help get that thing charged much faster than those that hit float (13.8) and sit there.

Your fridge is quite large. Perhaps comparable to my setup this trip.

This trip, I am running two fridges...one freezer and one fridge. We are base camping for 8 days. Jeep only gets moved once every 3 days or so. Battery has to last completely on it's own.

Fridge is Dometic 65CFX DZ. A freezer is a Domeic CF18. From previous measurements, the 18 is an older unit and pulls 1.5x the current but only about 20% more energy than the more efficient 65liter.

I am running 200w of solar...At our campsite, we have good sun for about 3-4 hrs. Rest of the time it is in shade. Peak pwr is about 145w. Since it is a bit hot in the sun, the temp coefficient of the module is depressing the overall power output.

We're running solar panels whose MPPT is ~18v at 25C. At operating temps, the MPPT voltage drops to 15 to 16v...factor in wire loss, and you may start losing energy. ALL solar modules have a negative temp coefficient.

When I run in parallel, my pmax is 110w. In series, it hits nearly 145w. This is a combination of resistive loss and MPPT/power supply headroom issues. Most power supplies (chargers) need a couple of volts to run properly. If your charger is at 14.7v, and the module voltage is only one volt above, power/energy is lost...however it will be small.

A single 100ah battery runs both fridges and charges two phones. Resting battery voltage before solar starts charging in the morning is ~12.52- 12.57V. This equates to about a 70% charge on my battery. Charger hits 14.75V absoption and drops to 0.5A by the time the modules are in the shade.

At this site, total production each day is a paltry 400Wh in about 4hrs...but this is contingent upon my consumption.

I'm averaging 300-340Wh...or about 30ah of consumption per 24hr for two fridges. When it is just my big Dometic in much hotter temps, I will consume about 200Wh.

Here is my suggestion...get a group 31 AGM 100-110ah deep cycle. Pick your favorite brand. Sams Club is a good deal. Mount a single 100W module that is pointed at the sun. If you can get a full day, you're likely to be marginal if consumption is similar to my setup.If flat mounted, get two and put them in series.

Consider something that is easy to remote deploy if you like me and prefer to park in the shade...if you have one flat and one remote,connect in parallel. The voltage moves and order of magnitude less than current during MPPT tracking and your system will be more efficient if one module shaded.

If you have to re-charge fast, get more solar. No one ever complained about too much battery or too much solar.

No single conductor on the system be less than#12. If remote mount modules, no less than #10. Most of the time my remote modules are 50' away.

Optima batteries have been known to have quality issues and have lower capacity for a given size.

I design utility scale solar power plants for a living.


I have a bed rack with dual rotopax mounts on each side, I want to move one set to the drivers side and in its place make a plate and articulating arm to mount the 100watt rigid solar panel to it....



sent via the cone of silence
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
but with the above mentioned sun/shade issue it might sound like for a my specific needs a single 100 watt panel and just live with potentially shorter duration or mixed power use on the fridge. ie, fridge only draws while stationary.

The partial shading problem happens with all solar panels everywhere. Our little side discussion was about rigging them in series vs. rigging them in parallel.

Don't take is as a reason to only run one panel - it's not. If you can fit two panels, then go for it.


Looking at batteries its looks like the 12V Rolls Surette 200AH is the winner here at cost per aH
https://www.thesolarbiz.com/media/catalog/product/r/o/Rolls-Surrette-S-260-Data-Sheet.pdf

-or-
This Trojan 6C T105-RE thats 225AH
https://www.thesolarbiz.com/media/catalog/product/t/r/Trojan_T105-RE_Data_Sheets.pdf

That Trojan is a 6v, the Rolls is 12v.


I know this is alot of questions and im super thankful for your help,.

No worries.
 

blackohio

Observer
Don't waste your money on non mppt controller...ever. If you already own a controller, get an MPPT controller as the first upgrade. MPPT will yield 10-30% more energy over non MPPT. Flat mounting modules vs angled towards the sun is worth another 10-30%.

Since alot of info has been offered and my understanding of power/batteries/panels has somewhat increased its been a help here, i did know from reading not to buy a non-mppt controller to start thankfully. score 1 for me.

You know more about the dynamics of that swing arm more than us. Solar panels are relatively light, but make great wind sails. My guess is the arm will support the module in little wind while stationary.

I'm probably going to have my fab guy make an arm, rather than use the magic arm and maybe it just swings up. but photoshopping an approximate, maybe i'll just roof mount it as it's pretty big. This is roughly a 21x47 panel

2017-IATS-Rotiform-SIX-OR-Corey-Longstreth-6.jpg

Get a charger that can be custom set to your battery and run in absorption mode for your AGM (14.6-14.8V) at full current...it will help get that thing charged much faster than those that hit float (13.8) and sit there.

the renogy 40a controller seems to do all of that. Im not sure on the absorbtion mode part.

Your fridge is quite large. Perhaps comparable to my setup this trip.

This trip, I am running two fridges...one freezer and one fridge. We are base camping for 8 days. Jeep only gets moved once every 3 days or so. Battery has to last completely on it's own.

Fridge is Dometic 65CFX DZ. A freezer is a Domeic CF18. From previous measurements, the 18 is an older unit and pulls 1.5x the current but only about 20% more energy than the more efficient 65liter.

I am running 200w of solar...At our campsite, we have good sun for about 3-4 hrs. Rest of the time it is in shade. Peak pwr is about 145w. Since it is a bit hot in the sun, the temp coefficient of the module is depressing the overall power output.

We're running solar panels whose MPPT is ~18v at 25C. At operating temps, the MPPT voltage drops to 15 to 16v...factor in wire loss, and you may start losing energy. ALL solar modules have a negative temp coefficient.

As long as I can keep get battery to 70% or so I guess i'd be happy


A single 100ah battery runs both fridges and charges two phones. Resting battery voltage before solar starts charging in the morning is ~12.52- 12.57V. This equates to about a 70% charge on my battery. Charger hits 14.75V absoption and drops to 0.5A by the time the modules are in the shade.

At this site, total production each day is a paltry 400Wh in about 4hrs...but this is contingent upon my consumption.

I'm averaging 300-340Wh...or about 30ah of consumption per 24hr for two fridges. When it is just my big Dometic in much hotter temps, I will consume about 200Wh.

im guessing i'll be in a similar position.

Here is my suggestion...get a group 31 AGM 100-110ah deep cycle. Pick your favorite brand. Sams Club is a good deal. Mount a single 100W module that is pointed at the sun. If you can get a full day, you're likely to be marginal if consumption is similar to my setup.If flat mounted, get two and put them in series.

been looking at a bunch of different batteries, not are deep cycle electric specific and rated in the 200ah area.

Consider something that is easy to remote deploy if you like me and prefer to park in the shade...if you have one flat and one remote,connect in parallel. The voltage moves and order of magnitude less than current during MPPT tracking and your system will be more efficient if one module shaded.

If you have to re-charge fast, get more solar. No one ever complained about too much battery or too much solar.

I might lean towards deployable stationary, but mountable under my tent for storage. since it seems that the panels might just be too big for my side mount idea now, I can go back to the 280watt panel, store in a mount under the tent attached to the rack and deploy off the ground using weighted light stands

No single conductor on the system be less than#12. If remote mount modules, no less than #10. Most of the time my remote modules are 50' away.

I had planned on #10 as part of my build. going lower i assume theres more loss as not alot of power is pushed through it yeah.

Optima batteries have been known to have quality issues and have lower capacity for a given size.

I design utility scale solar power plants for a living.

sent via the cone of silence

I killed the optima idea once a few members better explained ah and usage to me.
 
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blackohio

Observer
The partial shading problem happens with all solar panels everywhere. Our little side discussion was about rigging them in series vs. rigging them in parallel.

Don't take is as a reason to only run one panel - it's not. If you can fit two panels, then go for it.

gotcha. it read to the novice as shading in pairs worsens over performance rather than a single and shading. understood now.

That Trojan is a 6v, the Rolls is 12v.
No worries.

Thats why i was qualifying with the sentence below related to rolls weigh (97lbs)t vs 2 trojans weights (120lbs) and cable size needs.

right now im contending with the warzone that long beach turns into for the month leading up to the 4th of july. My dude HATE fireworks, they terrify him, basically i imagine its what the end of the world sounds like. He pissed himself in the house earlier, he loaded on doggy xanax and I wrap his dome like an old russian lady so he cant hear as well. seems to help calm him a bit.

IMG_2612.jpg
 
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DLTooley

Observer
Typically 12v compressor fridges are 45-70 watts. They do not run continuously, how much depends on the temperature; the setting inside and the actual conditions outside. I am game to try it without any battery at all, cooling enough in the sun to hold overnight. That is a bit risky in the cloudy day scenario, but a direct wire to the starting battery posts is a lot cheaper, and simpler, than 6 golf cart batteries! I like driving into town on rainy days. The 40ah lithium packs that are out there are worth watching, as the market develops.
 

blackohio

Observer
The partial shading problem happens with all solar panels everywhere. Our little side discussion was about rigging them in series vs. rigging them in parallel.

Don't take is as a reason to only run one panel - it's not. If you can fit two panels, then go for it.




That Trojan is a 6v, the Rolls is 12v.




No worries.
I got a quote on the fallriver 12v battery locally at $635 for the 210ah and renogy has their 200ah 12v battery for $449.

I wonder if on the work truck with the 280watt panel I couldnt just run the 100ah battery, assuming the panel is throwing more power back than the fridge is taking out during the day.

Then run the 200ah battery in my truck with the 150watt panel.

thoughts on that combo?
 

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