Montero Sport transmission issues, looking for advice.

['round n' back again]

an improperly installed t/c will not let the engine mate up to the transmission.

there will be a gap of about .50 inch.. maddening as hell but common.

"I bolted it to the flex plate first, and then slid the transmission over it."

what does this mean?

u must bolt the flex plate to the crank, then the installed torque converter to flex plate with 6 maddeningly little bolts. with the torque converter seated in the transmission.
ignore for the moment the marks on the dipstick.
put enough fluid in to get the transmission to behave normally. then check it hot. you hot level is the critical level. torque converter drain back will often make the cold reading in accurate.
and honestly who should care what the cold level is . or why should u care.
when over full the following happens. the fluid will flood the rotating mass of gears and clutches, causing the fluid to aerate and foam. this of course wont go through the valve body too well and it causes excessive heat, which transmission shops love.

 

[Outdooraholic]

im betting pump seal, torque converter or low and behold, the potential for the shift linkage to be literally shifting the transmission ever so slightly under sustained accel. and torque twist from a heavily burdened engine and possibly worn motor mounts, enough to let fluid slip by the valve body port and you lose line pressure and gear engagement. especially this sounds likely as it performed the same diabolical trick on both transmissions.
my gen 1 has an insane contraption for the shifting linkage , but like most things mitsu , it works well.

i believe the two issues are unrelated. the leak sounds like a pump seal, or a torque converter shaft seal. or even a pump housing is cracked (unlikely).

pumps are cheap or should be, and the whole unpleasant exercise of replacement in the texas summer should take most of a saturday with hand tools.
do your rear main seal too!
do your oil pan if its droozling.
oil leaks are for kidz.


trans fluid"
ENEOS spIII works well if you have no convenient access to dealer. its available at napa . likely cheaper. likely the same fluid as eneos is an oem supplier to japanese manufacturers with the exception , i believe of Mazda.

I'm using the Hynduai SPIII fluid, which i read is the same as the Mitsubishi stuff, just cheaper. Luckily the weather has been really nice with rain every afternoon so temps have been quite comfortable.

an improperly installed t/c will not let the engine mate up to the transmission.

there will be a gap of about .50 inch.. maddening as hell but common.

"I bolted it to the flex plate first, and then slid the transmission over it."

what does this mean?

u must bolt the flex plate to the crank, then the installed torque converter to flex plate with 6 maddeningly little bolts. with the torque converter seated in the transmission.
ignore for the moment the marks on the dipstick.
put enough fluid in to get the transmission to behave normally. then check it hot. you hot level is the critical level. torque converter drain back will often make the cold reading in accurate.
and honestly who should care what the cold level is . or why should u care.
when over full the following happens. the fluid will flood the rotating mass of gears and clutches, causing the fluid to aerate and foam. this of course wont go through the valve body too well and it causes excessive heat, which transmission shops love.

I took the transmission off, with the torque converter still bolted to the flex plate. Then I unbolted the torque converter and took it off. So I reinstalled it then same way. Bolted the torque converter onto the flex plate and then slid the transmission over it. I think that's why the engine was having trouble cranking over at first, the torque converter was putting pressure on the flex plate/crank. Then I guess something finally lined up and it started cranking over normally.

The reason I was worried about the level was because that was the only thing that had changed between the night when i drove it and the next morning when it wouldn't move. I didn't do anything except add about 2.5 more quarts to get the hot level right. So I figured it was worth a shot.

Yesterday evening after work I drained the fluids, removed the cross bars, driveshafts, exhaust pipe, and transfer case. I also got all the bell housing bolts off, just waiting for a friend to help get the torque converter bolts loose and then I'll lower the trans and converter down together and inspect for damage. When I drained the transmission fluid it still looked clear and clean, so that's a good sign.

 

[Outdooraholic]

I got the transmission off and inspected everything for signs of damage but couldn't find anything. Splines looked good, plate looked good, keys on the pump and converter looked good. I know there is a good possibility that I destroyed the pump, but I figure there is still a chance. So I installed the torque converter all the way into the transmission and am going to give it one more try. If it still doesn't work then I'll have to pull another transmission from the junkyard.

 

[PirateMcGee]

Good luck!

 

[Outdooraholic]

Good luck!

I appreciate it! However, I am sad to report that the transmission is definitely dead. A buddy came over this evening and we got it installed and everything hooked up in record time. I'm getting pretty quick at this after as many times as I've done it now. When we tested it, it would go into gear but would move, only creep with higher RPM's. I can't say this whole mess was a complete waste though because I did learn, the HARD WAY, how to properly install a torque converter, which I will never forget as long as I live.

So I guess the next step is to take everything off again and then pull another transmission from the junkyard and start over.

 

[PirateMcGee]

I appreciate it! However, I am sad to report that the transmission is definitely dead. A buddy came over this evening and we got it installed and everything hooked up in record time. I'm getting pretty quick at this after as many times as I've done it now. When we tested it, it would go into gear but would move, only creep with higher RPM's. I can't say this whole mess was a complete waste though because I did learn, the HARD WAY, how to properly install a torque converter, which I will never forget as long as I live.

So I guess the next step is to take everything off again and then pull another transmission from the junkyard and start over.

It is possible that the tranny was bad from the get go.

 

[Offroadmuch]

Are you SURE it is dead? Could you possibly run it over to a local transmisssion guy? My guy here was very knowledgeable and was familiar with my transmission. He said it was simple and we had my shifting problem figured out pretty quick. Just and idea. Good luck with your truck.

 

['round n' back again]

autos can be finiky but that has not been my experience with the asian transmission.

it seems unlikely that the trans died that quickly.
i second the opinion/suggestion to have a very competant mechanic run tests on your current transmission.

 

[normal_dave]

PAIN....!

Man, I hate reading this thread. While I've yet to tear into one of our Aisin transmissions, (they are quite tough btw...), I have learned the hard way in years past, but have successfully built, driven, raced, and towed with multiple versions of the Chrysler automatic transmissions. With that said:
-I always replace the torque converter with new or rebuilt every time. You can't really completely flush out a torque converter successfully. If it is/was bad, then the new/used trans typically will fail soon due to either trash from the failed converter, or circulation/pump issues. Since you are working out of junkyard supply, it's still not a bad idea on the converter. At least you can flush out the trans, pan, and filter before installing it.
-When installing the converter, it is imperative that it goes into the transmission first and is fully seated. This step requires slightly lifting and turning the converter while pushing back gently. You should feel two "drops or steps". (I'm not 100% about this on Aisin, but you get the idea of the importance). The trans can be installed and bolted up with the converter on the first "step or drop" but you can still damage the trans/pump/converter because it is not fully engaged. Be sure the converter is fully seated to the 2nd "drop". When you get it fully seated, and recognize the proper position, birds will sing, and music will play. Now when you mate the trans back to the engine, you may have to pull the converter slightly forward to meet the flex plate, that's ok once the trans is bolted up.
-Flush out the cooling lines and cooler followed by a air flush with the air hose. (while the trans is out).
-I too worry about the overfill for such a long period of time. The leak at elevation and temperature would have been normal for an overfill. Typically the fluid would literally get pumped out of the vent hole and leak out the bell housing, due to expansion/heat.
-Flush, this is for Gen 3 5-speed, but the principles are the same:
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=15879
-I've been able to source SPIII at a good price through my local Hyundai dealer. Yes, it is the identical specification product, not the global equal stuff that we don't like.
-On the existing trans, as you remove it, unbolt the converter from the flexplate, before dropping the trans. You'll need to turn the engine by hand from the front crank bolt to position each converter bolt. Then separate the trans from the engine, and while it is still on the jack, test the converter using the rotation method above to see if it will seat any further. It's the only red flag I see on this last install. It's up to you how many times you want to swap these things out, and I'll bet you are getting pretty good at it.
-With all I've read, I'm wondering if the converter has been an issue all along?

Good Luck, maybe you'll find something simple on this last go round.

 

[Outdooraholic]

It is possible that the tranny was bad from the get go.

True.

Are you SURE it is dead? Could you possibly run it over to a local transmisssion guy? My guy here was very knowledgeable and was familiar with my transmission. He said it was simple and we had my shifting problem figured out pretty quick. Just and idea. Good luck with your truck.

When I first got the truck I took it to a local transmission shop. At first they said it was probably something simple and I believe they messed with the valve body. Nothing was fixed and they said it was in need of a full rebuild and quoted me $1500+. Since I had just bough the truck for $1750, that wasn't an option. So a few years later I pulled a teams from the junkyard and had them install it. Still had issues. (That was still with the original torque converter).

autos can be finiky but that has not been my experience with the asian transmission.

it seems unlikely that the trans died that quickly.
i second the opinion/suggestion to have a very competant mechanic run tests on your current transmission.

My Evo transmission needs a rebuild too, that one I am going to send off to an Evo transmission specialist to have rebuilt and drop a lot of money. However I haven't had any luck finding anywhere local that is good with these Mitsubishi autos and I don't want so spend a ton of money on this truck. A transmission at the pull a part is $99 and comes with a 30 day warranty so while it's a lot more work, I hope to get lucky and get a good one while staying very affordable.

PAIN....!

Man, I hate reading this thread. While I've yet to tear into one of our Aisin transmissions, (they are quite tough btw...), I have learned the hard way in years past, but have successfully built, driven, raced, and towed with multiple versions of the Chrysler automatic transmissions. With that said:
-I always replace the torque converter with new or rebuilt every time. You can't really completely flush out a torque converter successfully. If it is/was bad, then the new/used trans typically will fail soon due to either trash from the failed converter, or circulation/pump issues. Since you are working out of junkyard supply, it's still not a bad idea on the converter. At least you can flush out the trans, pan, and filter before installing it.
-When installing the converter, it is imperative that it goes into the transmission first and is fully seated. This step requires slightly lifting and turning the converter while pushing back gently. You should feel two "drops or steps". (I'm not 100% about this on Aisin, but you get the idea of the importance). The trans can be installed and bolted up with the converter on the first "step or drop" but you can still damage the trans/pump/converter because it is not fully engaged. Be sure the converter is fully seated to the 2nd "drop". When you get it fully seated, and recognize the proper position, birds will sing, and music will play. Now when you mate the trans back to the engine, you may have to pull the converter slightly forward to meet the flex plate, that's ok once the trans is bolted up.
-Flush out the cooling lines and cooler followed by a air flush with the air hose. (while the trans is out).
-I too worry about the overfill for such a long period of time. The leak at elevation and temperature would have been normal for an overfill. Typically the fluid would literally get pumped out of the vent hole and leak out the bell housing, due to expansion/heat.
-Flush, this is for Gen 3 5-speed, but the principles are the same:
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=15879
-I've been able to source SPIII at a good price through my local Hyundai dealer. Yes, it is the identical specification product, not the global equal stuff that we don't like.
-On the existing trans, as you remove it, unbolt the converter from the flexplate, before dropping the trans. You'll need to turn the engine by hand from the front crank bolt to position each converter bolt. Then separate the trans from the engine, and while it is still on the jack, test the converter using the rotation method above to see if it will seat any further. It's the only red flag I see on this last install. It's up to you how many times you want to swap these things out, and I'll bet you are getting pretty good at it.
-With all I've read, I'm wondering if the converter has been an issue all along?

Good Luck, maybe you'll find something simple on this last go round.

Thank you for the detailed response! I now know how to install the torque converter properly, lining up the 2 shafts and they pump keys. I am 100% sure that the torque converter was properly installed when I tired it this last time. However based on everything I have read, if it isn't installed properly, which it wasn't at first, then it is very likely to destroy the pump. I gave it another shot, just in case, to no avail. Perhaps the torque converter was the issue with the first and /or second transmission. I think I'll try one more junkyard transmission/torque converter and if that doesn't work then put the old one back on. It was driveable, just had some issues.

 

[PirateMcGee]

Keep plugging away. I am sure it will eventually work! Btw on to the second interview for the position out there so we might be able to run a portion of the nmbdr or another route with two Sports....would be a rare scene haha.

 

[Outdooraholic]

Keep plugging away. I am sure it will eventually work! Btw on to the second interview for the position out there so we might be able to run a portion of the nmbdr or another route with two Sports....would be a rare scene haha.

Awesome to hear! Let me know.

So on the transmission front, my motivation level has dropped and I'm currently putting the old transmission back in with new seals and SPIII fluid. That should fix my leak and perhaps may even cure some of the shifting gremlins. I'll take the trans back to the junkyard and have store credit so I can revisit the issue again in the future of need be. I'm hoping to have the Montero Sport back on the road by this weekend.

 

[Outdooraholic]

Finally back on the road! I used the new seals and SPIII fluid on the old transmission and torque converter. It took 7 3/4 quarts of SPIII to get the hot level perfect. No leaks so far. I'll comment back after a few days to let you guys know if the SPIII fluid helps the old transmission shift better. Thanks for all of the help through this ordeal!