Montero Sport transmission issues, looking for advice.

[Outdooraholic]

I've had transmission issues since I bought this truck 4 years ago. Initially it would slip into neutral if I went above 4k rpms in 2nd gear along with other random shift issues, difficultly going into reverse, especially when it was cold, etc. I bought Mitsubishi SP3 fluid and did a full flush to no avail. Last year I bought a replacement transmission from a junkyard and had it installed by a transmission shop. Even after putting the new trans in It still does the same thing, except it doesn't slip into neutral until 4.5k rpms now. It seems weird to me that both transmissions had the same problems. I know the shop didn't use SP3 fluid when they put the replacement trans in. Also it still has the same torque converter.

I took a trip to Colorado this past weekend and went up the top of Pikes Peak and when I got back home I noticed I was leaking transmission fluid. The whole underside of the car was wet. I cleaned everything up and as far as I can tell its leaking between the transmission and engine/oil pan. It's definitely transmission fluid (pink). Is there a seal or gasket between the engine and transmission case?

So now I'm torn on what to do. I need to fix the leak. I want to use SP3 fluid. But I'm not sure if I'm wasting my time with this transmission or if I should get another one form the junkyard while in fixing the leak anyway and give that a shot. Then I was thinking maybe with sp3 fluid my current transmission would be better. Maybe it has something to do with the torque converter? Basically I'm not sure what to do at the moment and would love some advice.

Also can someone remind me of the transmission model code on the gen 2 Sports? I know the 97-98's had the AW4 transmissions.

Thanks guys!

 

[Salonika]

There is no seal between engine and trans.....when you say "slip into neutral", what do you mean? The shifter would actually move?

 

[Outdooraholic]

Well it seem like that is where it is leaking from. It's not the coolant lines, which pass through there. I'll have to do some more searching. What I mean is that the rpms are steadily climbing and the car is accelerating until 4.5k rpms in 2nd gear and then it completely slips and the rpms shoot up and the car stops accelerating (as if it were being rev'd in neutral). At which point I have to let off the gas, let the rpms fall, and it will shift back into gear. The shift lever stays in drive the whole time. Since I know when it happens I am able to avoid it most of the time but it still tends to happen going up a hill or trying to pass someone.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Well it seem like that is where it is leaking from. It's not the coolant lines, which pass through there. I'll have to do some more searching. What I mean is that the rpms are steadily climbing and the car is accelerating until 4.5k rpms in 2nd gear and then it completely slips and the rpms shoot up and the car stops accelerating (as if it were being rev'd in neutral). At which point I have to let off the gas, let the rpms fall, and it will shift back into gear. The shift lever stays in drive the whole time. Since I know when it happens I am able to avoid it most of the time but it still tends to happen going up a hill or trying to pass someone.

You are experiencing what's called "flare(or flair) shifting" and may be due to insufficient line pressure if the converter is leaking somewhere, more info here https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=flare+shifting&spf=1499350605600. Swap in a different converter and report back, there is usually a pump in there to check as well.

 

[Outdooraholic]

It tends to flare (momentary rpm increase before shifting) from time to time as well in different gears. However the slippage I am talking about that happens above 4.5k RPM's in 2nd gear is much more severe. That is why I described it as going into neutral as it completely slips and isn't in any gear at all. If I don't let off the gas it will rev way beyond the redline. It's not just a momentary flare before shifting. However the leak just started in the past couple of days while the shifting and slipping issues have been going on for over 4 years with 2 different used transmissions.

The torque converter is still the original. Is it possible that is causing the issues and not the transmission itself? All my cars are manuals so I'm not that familiar with autos. Also specific to the leak, is there a seal inside the front case that could be leaking causing fluid to come out from between the engine and trans? I drove the truck to work last night so I'll check underneath again today and see if there is anywhere else the leak could be coming from.

 

[Salonika]

Based on J-n-M's input + you've already done the best experiment possible by swapping transmissions, I'd go after torque converter. What sucks it the work involved in getting it out.

 

[Outdooraholic]

The fluid definitely seems to be leaking between the engine and trans. There is a bracket on the bottom of the transmission that supports the exhaust and the fluid seems to be pooling on top of that bracket, then dripping on the exhaust, and then onto the cross member and from there to the ground. Its enough to make a little puddle on the bracket and put a couple of drops on the ground each time o drive it. So perhaps the torque converter seal is leaking fluid and then it's seeping out of the case?

I just checked the fluid expecting to see it low, but it was actually high. On the dipstick there is the bottom cold mark, which is a quick reference, and then the two hot marks which are the official measurement. I checked it cold and it is over the second hot mark. I haven't messed with the transmission since it was installed by the shop a year ago. If it has developed a leak from being overfilled, will draining some of the fluid help or is the damage already done? (Assuming it's related)

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Did you even check the fluid when the work was done a year ago?

 

[Outdooraholic]

Did you even check the fluid when the work was done a year ago?

It was last June, and I picked it up form the shop and we left the next day to drive to San Antonio in the Montero. On the way out the AT temp light came on and I pulled over and checked the fluid level and it was very high. I contacted the transmission shop and they told me it wasn't an issue and would basically self correct. That didn't sound right to be but it was a used transmission install and wasn't warrantied, although they did put in new fluid, which is how I know it's regular ATF. The rest of the trip the light never came back on. Once I got home I drained some fluid out of it, but I guess I never got it all the way down. Then I was gone all summer for work and forgot to follow up with the fluid levels when I got back. For the past year it's been on my list to buy SPIII and flush out the ATF but I haven't gotten around to it and now after the Colorado trip I have this new leak. So now the transmission is back to being a priority. I plan on keeping this truck for a while and want to fix this transmission issue that has been hanging around for the 4 years I've owned the truck.

I will drain the ATF down to the proper level first and see if it has any effect on the leak. Then I will go from there. Without a doubt I want to use SPIII fluid as that is what is best for the transmission. but on the original transmission i did a full flush with SPIII and it still had the same issues so I feel like it would be a waste of money until I figure out why it's slipping. Perhaps it the torque converter. Perhaps I have extremely bad luck and got a trans with the same issue as the old one. Perhaps it's something else. That's the predicament that I'm in at the moment. But like I said, I will drain the fluid down to the correct level first and then figure t out from there. Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Salonika]

On my full size Montero there is an inspection cover where you can get a look at the torque converter. Maybe open that up and see what it looks like? I think it should be dry as a bone in there. Also I think you can diagnose a bad torque converter by performing a stall speed test. My FSM has a detailed procedure for it.

 

[PirateMcGee]

It was last June, and I picked it up form the shop and we left the next day to drive to San Antonio in the Montero. On the way out the AT temp light came on and I pulled over and checked the fluid level and it was very high. I contacted the transmission shop and they told me it wasn't an issue and would basically self correct. That didn't sound right to be but it was a used transmission install and wasn't warrantied, although they did put in new fluid, which is how I know it's regular ATF. The rest of the trip the light never came back on. Once I got home I drained some fluid out of it, but I guess I never got it all the way down. Then I was gone all summer for work and forgot to follow up with the fluid levels when I got back. For the past year it's been on my list to buy SPIII and flush out the ATF but I haven't gotten around to it and now after the Colorado trip I have this new leak. So now the transmission is back to being a priority. I plan on keeping this truck for a while and want to fix this transmission issue that has been hanging around for the 4 years I've owned the truck.

I will drain the ATF down to the proper level first and see if it has any effect on the leak. Then I will go from there. Without a doubt I want to use SPIII fluid as that is what is best for the transmission. but on the original transmission i did a full flush with SPIII and it still had the same issues so I feel like it would be a waste of money until I figure out why it's slipping. Perhaps it the torque converter. Perhaps I have extremely bad luck and got a trans with the same issue as the old one. Perhaps it's something else. That's the predicament that I'm in at the moment. But like I said, I will drain the fluid down to the correct level first and then figure t out from there. Thanks for the help so far.

I would get a good used one out of a junkyard (including the torque converter) and swap it in. Sounds like the transmission shop way overfilled it, with the wrong fluid, and it over pressured a bunch of seals. With the issues it has I think it's worth your while to start fresh.

Transmission shops are notoriously crappy. It's also not normal for the level to be overfilled, red flag that they said that.

 

[Salonika]

http://transmissionrepairguy.com/torque-converter-problems/

 

[Outdooraholic]

On my full size Montero there is an inspection cover where you can get a look at the torque converter. Maybe open that up and see what it looks like? I think it should be dry as a bone in there. Also I think you can diagnose a bad torque converter by performing a stall speed test. My FSM has a detailed procedure for it.

I will look into that. I have the FSM's for the truck and I have been flipping through them but haven't see that cover yet. It would be helpful if I could see inside though to verify the leak.

 

[Outdooraholic]

I would get a good used one out of a junkyard (including the torque converter) and swap it in. Sounds like the transmission shop way overfilled it, with the wrong fluid, and it over pressured a bunch of seals. With the issues it has I think it's worth your while to start fresh.

Transmission shops are notoriously crappy. It's also not normal for the level to be overfilled, red flag that they said that.

That is what I am leaning towards. It's going to be a pain, but probably is what needs to be done. There are a bunch of 2000+ Sports at the local pull-a-part so I'll have a few to pick from. Get the trans, converter, swap them out, flush with SPIII and hope for the best.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

That is what I am leaning towards. It's going to be a pain, but probably is what needs to be done. There are a bunch of 2000+ Sports at the local pull-a-part so I'll have a few to pick from. Get the trans, converter, swap them out, flush with SPIII and hope for the best.

Typically(not always) if you are not pulling any codes it will be a mechanical issue. Just as a precaution, have someone with a good scan tool plug in and see if it pulls anything up that the vehicle may be not be picking up.