So Many Cool Toyotas.....why?

tacollie

Glamper
The grass is always greener. My brother lives in New Zealand and spends some time in a D4D powered Hilux for work. He drives my taco whenever he visits. Says he likes the taco way better. He likes the 4.0 power band. We keep threatening to swap motors!
 

nickw

Adventurer
Not to mention, people belly ache about how much Tacoma's cost already, LC70's, particularly in diesel are going to be a small fortune. Who is going to drop $40k+ on a bare bones, mid-size, regular cab LC70 pickup? They are heavy duty and expensive. They may be bar bones but you are paying for the HD axles, trans, engine, Tcase, etc.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Not to mention, people belly ache about how much Tacoma's cost already, LC70's, particularly in diesel are going to be a small fortune. Who is going to drop $40k+ on a bare bones, mid-size, regular cab LC70 pickup? They are heavy duty and expensive. They may be bar bones but you are paying for the HD axles, trans, engine, Tcase, etc.

Hell, only $40k? I'd buy a LC 70 at that price. People pay that much, and more, for brand new Tundras and Jeeps, many of which come with only slightly better interiors than what you find in a LC 70. I think the fact that relatively spartan but utilitarian vehicles, like the 4runner, jeep and Power Wagon, and plenty of work-style 3/4 tons, sell so well in North America proves that the market demand exists for such vehicles as the LC 70. People want spartan but reliable work horse vehicles.

Toyota hasn't brought them over to the North American market because of emissions and safety issues (they're basically too lazy to update the vehicle's safety features and add all the emissions systems that are required here). I think it has very little to do with market demand, or lack thereof.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I agree that a fair number of people want base level trucks but plenty of people clamor for the 'tech' in vehicles and the difference in price for a loaded truck is mostly profit for the manufacturer.

I don't think we can blame regulations anymore. Other than needing to add DEF I don't think Aussie and Euro rules are really that much different now. For gasoline engines the difference is minimal, Toyota uses the GR engines everywhere. The 70 series and Hilux have front, side curtain, knee air bags. Both have ABS and stability control The Hilux even has child seat anchors. Both are 5-star crash rated in Australia. In terms of putting a cocoon around you I dare say the current Cruisers and Hilux are 'safer' than my old 2008 Taco.

I think it's mainly a marketing position and if I'm asked I think it's wrong. What made Toyota popular here? Affordable, reliable, simple vehicles. It still does, that's their reputation anyway. But Toyota still sells a lot of cars so I'm not one to argue.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Not so sure about safety 'regs.
70 series sell in Australia & Europe what have comparable regs as USA. Some of Africa and S.America do too.
I think its simply numbers. Toyota Enthusiasts to buy one are a drop in the bucket by comparasin. For truck versions, Chicken Tax will pare down the number of buyers even more.
If Toyota thought they could sell enough to make it worthwhile, whatever it takes would be done.

I agree that a fair number of people want base level trucks but plenty of people clamor for the 'tech' in vehicles and the difference in price for a loaded truck is mostly profit for the manufacturer.

I don't think we can blame regulations anymore. Other than needing to add DEF I don't think Aussie and Euro rules are really that much different now. For gasoline engines the difference is minimal, Toyota uses the GR engines everywhere. The 70 series and Hilux have front, side curtain, knee air bags. Both have ABS and stability control The Hilux even has child seat anchors. Both are 5-star crash rated in Australia. In terms of putting a cocoon around you I dare say the current Cruisers and Hilux are 'safer' than my old 2008 Taco.

I think it's mainly a marketing position and if I'm asked I think it's wrong. What made Toyota popular here? Affordable, reliable, simple vehicles. It still does, that's their reputation anyway. But Toyota still sells a lot of cars so I'm not one to argue.

It is primarily the lack of safety and emissions compliance, IMHO, that keeps Toyota from selling some of their global platforms in North America.

1) Aussie and Euro safety regs may be similar to those of North America and Canada, but they aren't the same (refer to the NHTSA's regulations if you want to see the specifics for the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards). It would cost money to bring some of these vehicles, like the LC 70 up to American standard. Crash tests and air bags, crumple zones, roll over protection, to name a few areas, would have to meet different standards for North America. I think the more recent LC 70's have started to incorporate additional air bags, but that's only one aspect they would be tested for in NA and according to Andrew St Pierre (of 4xoverland) not all LC 70 models got that update:
2) I'm fairly certain that most Toyota diesels sold overseas (Europe, Australia, developing markets) haven't been meeting the same emissions standards that are demanded here in NA. In fact, I think it was just recently (model year 2016 or 2017) that Toyota finally incorporated a DPF on the LC 70. But even still, I highly doubt a DPF-equipped LC 70 or Hilux would pass emissions testing in the US simply because we have different, and arguably more stringent, standards than most other parts of the world. Again, refer to the Andrew St. Pierre's video above, as he I believe he talks a bit about the new emissions systems on the LC 70.

I would think with all the 4x4 craze going on here in NA with Raptor this, ZR2 that, and TRD this, Toyota would've brought over its more hardcore 4x4 offerings to satiate the growing demand for such vehicles. But I suspect they've looked into that option already and found that they didn't want to deal with the costs and risk (emission scandals plaguing VW and possibly FCA) that would go along with such a move.
 

vaulter1

New member
It is primarily
I would think with all the 4x4 craze going on here in NA with Raptor this, ZR2 that, and TRD this, Toyota would've brought over its more hardcore 4x4 offerings to satiate the growing demand for such vehicles. But I suspect they've looked into that option already and found that they didn't want to deal with the costs and risk (emission scandals plaguing VW and possibly FCA) that would go along with such a move.

I agree with your view of the safety standards issue but I think you misinterpret the direction of the US 4x4 craze - specifically regarding the fad of 'up-optioned' models. While there is a loyal group of people in the US who value reliable and capable underpinnings over flashy specs and supersizing, that doesn't really sell enough cars on it's own (see manual transmission, brown, stationwagons). One of the things that drives up the cost of the LC70 based SUVs and pickups is the material and workmanship quality that goes in to making a vehicle that is so consistently reliable - ownership lasts decades not just a 24 month lease. On the other hand, the stereotypical formula in the US to attract 4x4 attention is for bigger wheels, taller suspension, flashy stickers, and a bigger/more powerful engine. These approaches seem at odds with each other and instead of spending significant amounts of resources to bring an LC70 based vehicle to the US, as they do elsewhere in the world, it seems Toyota has decided that investment in the TRD approach to their current lineup will pay better dividends.
 

HRPINDC

Adventurer
I pretty much agree with what Lugueto said. The only thing we're missing out on is the 70 series-big disappointment- and other cool SWB jeep like offerings such as the Patrol. How many actual Jeeps did you see there? Probably not many.

They own the US in the two door, SWB buggy market, sad to say.

I saw very few, maybe three Jeep's there. That was surprising to me. Lots of Jimnys and similar vehicles. But it was for sure the Toyotas that made me drool.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
With damn near every road paved here, there really isn't any need for them to bring their more rugged 4WD vehicles here. We in the US have to go and seek out dirt roads, and mostly for recreation. Sure pickup truck sales are huge here, but think it is more about image, as most of us could get by with a Corolla and a small utility trailer....
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I agree with your view of the safety standards issue but I think you misinterpret the direction of the US 4x4 craze - specifically regarding the fad of 'up-optioned' models. While there is a loyal group of people in the US who value reliable and capable underpinnings over flashy specs and supersizing, that doesn't really sell enough cars on it's own (see manual transmission, brown, stationwagons).

I think the fact that Toyota 4runners (which is basically just a LC Prado) and Jeep Wranglers sell so well here would indicate otherwise. Yeah the sales #'s for BOF, robust SUV's and pickup's will never match those #'s for crossovers and sedans, but considering the regulatory and social context (discussions of pollution and climate change, tightening government regulations) its amazing that some of these models sell as much as they do. I look at my 4runner, and many others I see on the road: seats are okay, nothing special; no heated/ventilated seats; basic radio; simple bluetooth integration; a floaty truck-like suspension; manual 4wd transfer case with traditional 4wd (no center diff for pavement driving); a capable but otherwise very basic and old-fashioned vehicle. I enjoy owning and driving it, as do many others who I see on the road. It's cut from the same cloth as something like the LC 70 in that Toyota built it as a capable 4wd vehicle first, and the amenities and luxury items (some of them optional) were of secondary importance.

I hear this argument all the time: that there isn't a market demand for traditional 4wd vehicles. But I just have a hard time believing that with all the Raptors, Jeeps, 4unners, Power Wagons I see on a regular basis in my town (and there isn't really even any overlanding or offroading opportunities in my neck of the woods). Whether or not most people have a genuine need for such vehicles is another topic all together; I think the demand for them does exist. As I said earlier, it would cost Toyota money to make certain vehicles, like the LC 70, meet safety and emissions standards in the US.
 
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TwinStick

Explorer
I have hand written letters to Ford, GM, Mopar & Toyota 3 times each, over a 20 yr period. Not one of them wrote back. I also gave them my name & address & phone #. Not one of them called.......until the last time. We were eating dinner, phone rang, wife answered, said it was Sue, from Toyota Motor Company. We chatted for a good while. She asked me how I know about their continued production (at that time-around 1990) of solid axle trucks in some countries. I told I saw them with my own eyes while in the US Army. I also told her they should try it for a 5 year period---sell a bare bones, solid front & solid rear axle, manual shift diesel pickup here. No carpet, no radio. She said that those trucks would not meet US crash test standards, window glass standards, emission standards, headlight standards & it would be cost prohibitive for them to make them meet those standards. I told them they would sell every single one in record time. She politely said that I was in such a minority of people that would want a vehicle like that in the USA, it simply would not be worth their time & expense to do so. That was the end of my letter writing to the Big 3 & Toyota. Sad really.

It's like they (The US Government & EPA & Emissions) throw every single roadblock in the way of anything with a diesel engine here. Like they just don't want them to catch on. The EPA should be doing back flips of joy when people convert used vegetable oil to bio diesel & burn that instead of diesel. But they just bury them in regulations, laws, permits, disposal fee's etc.., etc... . http://biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-production/epa-guidance-for-biodiesel-producers.pdf?sfvrsn=4 It's like they don't want a 7000 lb 4x4 pickup to get good mpg. Just like the whole recycling circle. Many are super strict about the pick up. Some recycle companies will not pick up if there are still lables on the cans or glass jars. So, you have to use gallons & gallons & gallons of hot water, wasted, down the drain, to get the lables off, so they will accept them. How green is that ?

The almighty dollar is all that big companies care about these days it seems. Sad. All that being said, we have 3 Toyota's. A 2004 Corolla w/194k that we just sold, a 2010 Corolla w/152k & a 2017 TRD 4Runner w/2100 miles on it. We needed the 4wd in the winter here around Buffalo. Our employer would NOT accept weather as an excuse to not make it to work. Not a misprint. And we have my 2008 Dodge PWagon. That has never, ever failed to get me to or from work in the winter, regardless of the amount of snow. 1x I had to use the lockers on the way to work (for a couple miles) and again on the way home. The 4, 4x4 trucks behind me on the way home, turned around when i got to the spot where I had to use the lockers. lol
 
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