I don't see much 200 series here, any particular reason?

[tacollie]

There just aren't that many of them sold. Even on ih8mud there aren't that many relative to 100s. Also, parts and insurance are higher. Give it some time. 10 years ago there weren't very many people buying 100s for off-road use but now they are super popular.

As far as buying a $40k used 200 versus new 4runner. I bet most people are borrowing money and interest rates are better on new cars. And once again numbers. I can go buy a new 4 runner right now. I would have to look for a 200. 200s are better but 4Runners are still really nice.

 

[Dalko43]

It's only 2" wider than the 4Runner so that point is moot.

It's also a few inches longer, has a somewhat longer wheelbase, ~1klbs heavier, has slightly lower departure angles and turning radius. All those factors, while not game-changers by themselves, add up.

A stock URJ200 can go anywhere a stock 4Runner Trail can go.

Maybe it can, though it will rely heavily on its ATRAC to do so, and I'd argue that a locker-armed 4runner will have an easier time getting through similar terrain.

The Land Crusier is a niche product in the US by Toyota's choice. If they sold the full range here they'd sell a ton. The 200 and 120 platform in the form of the LC, LX, and GX sell more than a few thousand every year, though. However, it's a totally different story outside the US.

That's a polite way of saying Toyota is having a tough time selling them here in the states. Not because they're bad vehicles, but rather because they are over-optioned and arguably over-priced.

Also, yes Toyota does sell the LC 200 outside of the US, but I'd bet dollars to donuts their LC 70's and Hilux's are still the mainstay of their global sales.

The 4Runner isn't sold many places outside the US and where it is sold as the Fortuner or Hilux Surf it is a niche product.

The 4runner is sold globally, like the LC 200, in the form of the LC Prado. I don't know whether or not its considered a "niche" product, but since you're the one who made that claim, why don't you dig up some sales #'s to back that up.

Believe me, I *loved* my 4Runner. I have nothing bad to say about it. Thinking it's better than a Land Cruiser is something only a 4Runner owner would believe, though.

Trust me, I don't think the 4runner is a better overall vehicle than the LC 200. If I could afford to own and feed a LC 200, I'd have one sitting in my driveway. It's a very nice 4x4. I just don't know what people are getting at when they say that LC 200 is better than the 4runner at overlanding and offroading. In stock form, a 4runner trail is going to perform just as well in technical terrain, arguably better, than a stock LC 200. You're also going to get further on a tank of fuel. Build quality and comfort are what separate the two in my mind. That said, I'm not sure how quantifiable that quality difference is, as I've seen 4runners with a lifetime of abuse continue to run reliably in harsh conditions. They may not look as good or feel as comfortable as a LC of similar age, but they'll still run.

 

[ckkone]

Believe me, I *loved* my 4Runner. I have nothing bad to say about it. Thinking it's better than a Land Cruiser is something only a 4Runner owner would believe, though.

Yes, I agree 100%.

 

[MTSN]

The OP asked why there's not a lot of 200 content on this board, and I think the answer is now pretty clear from the cranky and whiney posts from people who DON'T own them about how overpriced they are. Those of us who do own them would rather participate on Mud where there is a lot of great discussion and information without having every thread devolve into absolutely pointless arguing. I used to love Expo but barely post any more due to how frivolous and fruitless much of the discussion is especially Fireside Chat.

 

[Ryanmb21]

The OP asked why there's not a lot of 200 content on this board, and I think the answer is now pretty clear from the cranky and whiney posts from people who DON'T own them about how overpriced they are. Those of us who do own them would rather participate on Mud where there is a lot of great discussion and information without having every thread devolve into absolutely pointless arguing. I used to love Expo but barely post any more due to how frivolous and fruitless much of the discussion is especially Fireside Chat.

Hahaha! @MTSN a little dramatic?!

Re-read the thread. This will make the 35th post, at least 30 of them are directly on topic to the original question or responsive to a previous post. What more do you want? Can you please quote which statements are cranky and whiney? I see lots of good input, facts, objective questions and many opinions. The question asks for opinions btw.

 

[Utah200]

The OP asked why there's not a lot of 200 content on this board, and I think the answer is now pretty clear from the cranky and whiney posts from people who DON'T own them about how overpriced they are. Those of us who do own them would rather participate on Mud where there is a lot of great discussion and information without having every thread devolve into absolutely pointless arguing. I used to love Expo but barely post any more due to how frivolous and fruitless much of the discussion is especially Fireside Chat.

Yep...there's virtually nothing to be gained from this forum section other than an ego stroke or a pissing match, neither of which are all that interesting.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Thanks for your thoughts and contributions to this thread @utah200


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[MetalDog]

Thanks for your thoughts and contributions to this thread @utah200


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The reality is they are mostly correct. Lots of the conversations here devolve into what rig is better, etc. On the IH8MUD forums, assuming you are in the forum for your rig (80, 100, 200 etc.), the threads are a lot more focused on community, education and fun. Expo still has great content though.

 

[JLee]

No. The $600 Cherokee does not pass the minimum bar of safety, longevity, nvh, capacity, cargo, roadworthiness, etc. whereas the 4Runner does.

It's not cheap vs expensive. It's value.

I want to want a 200 series. But what does it give me over a 4Runner? Slightly better safety (weight), +luxury, +3k towing, +5-10% cargo room; what else?


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The 200 gives you a higher bar of safety, longevity, nvh, capacity, cargo, and roadworthiness, etc.

Having owned an 80 series and two 120's, they're completely different beasts. Look at the 8" rear end in the 4Runners and then the 10.5" rear end in the 200's. If I pushed my truck hard, I'd still have my 80 (or would be looking at a 200). I've seen too many 8"'s grenade to want to abuse one.

 

[4Beast]

Come on guys, no need to turn this into a purse-swinger, at least no one is driving a Jeep! Having owned a 120 and 100 platform, I feel like the 4Runner is very, very capable, but there is a bit of a margin built into the Cruisers, whether that is safety, extra capacity, longevity or capabilities. Most of us won't fully use every capability of the Cruisers, but I like that it's there, in case I do.

 

[Dalko43]

However, it's a totally different story outside the US. The 4Runner isn't sold many places outside the US and where it is sold as the Fortuner or Hilux Surf it is a niche product.

In further clarification to this statement, not only is the LC Prado (the global version of the 4runner) not a niche product, but in Australia alone Toyota has sold 200k of them to date(http://www.toyota.com.au/news/toyota-landcruiser-prado-200000-sales-and-counting). Furthermore, the Fortuner is a SUV derivative of the Hilux, not the 4runner/LC Prado, and is even sold alongside the 4runner/LC Prado in some markets.

Having owned an 80 series and two 120's, they're completely different beasts. Look at the 8" rear end in the 4Runners and then the 10.5" rear end in the 200's. If I pushed my truck hard, I'd still have my 80 (or would be looking at a 200). I've seen too many 8"'s grenade to want to abuse one.

The LC 200 does have a larger rear end, partly because it is built to a more robust standard, and partly because it's a bigger/heavier vehicle with a more powerful engine.

And while I'm sure there are a few examples of 4runners that have had problems with their rear ends in harsh driving scenarios, it is not a common problem, despite your own anecdotal experience. I've "abused" mine a good deal, as have many others on this forum and others; most owners, myself included, haven't had any issues with the 4runner's rear end.

 

[JLee]

In further clarification to this statement, not only is the LC Prado (the global version of the 4runner) not a niche product, but in Australia alone Toyota has sold 200k of them to date(http://www.toyota.com.au/news/toyota-landcruiser-prado-200000-sales-and-counting). Furthermore, the Fortuner is a SUV derivative of the Hilux, not the 4runner/LC Prado, and is even sold alongside the 4runner/LC Prado in some markets.

The LC 200 does have a larger rear end, partly because it is built to a more robust standard, and partly because it's a bigger/heavier vehicle with a more powerful engine.

And while I'm sure there are a few examples of 4runners that have had problems with their rear ends in harsh driving scenarios, it is not a common problem, despite your own anecdotal experience. I've "abused" mine a good deal, as have many others on this forum and others; most owners, myself included, haven't had any issues with the 4runner's rear end.

I agree, most owners haven't had any issues. However, even the 80 series has a 9.5". It does not have a more powerful engine and its GVWR is a whopping 300 pounds higher than a GX470. LC's are simply built bigger/tougher in general.

You can handwave-away my post however much you want -- the point remains. Several GX guys have blown up their diffs, both with stock and aftermarket gears. They push their trucks a lot harder than I do -- I have yet to break anything, even a CV, between two Tacomas, a Tundra, an 80 series, and two GX470's. I'm also not running 35's and lockers (well, I was on the 80) and rock crawling every time I go out.

The 120 is a fine platform - I'm not saying it isn't. There's a reason I've owned more than one of them. I'm simply saying that it's not designed and built to the same standard as a LC.

 

[Dalko43]

LC's are simply built bigger/tougher in general.

I agree with that statement. Bigger diff, beefier frame, better built interior...a LC will always be a step higher even compared to a LC 'lite.' However, when it comes to offroading/overlanding in stock form the LC Prado/4runner has a lot going for it (the locking rear diff being one of the more defining aspects) that put it on equal footing with the LC or arguably makes it a little bit better. You put an ARB air locker on the LC 200, and that conversation likely becomes a moot point. But in stock form, when comparing a vehicle with a locker to one without a locker, there is going to be a slight difference in performance...and if a LC 200 owner can't acknowledge that, I'll chalk it up to cool-aid drinking.

Several GX guys have blown up their diffs, both with stock and aftermarket gears.

Well, you go with aftermarket anything in place of OEM, you do risk failure. As for stock gears failing, again I'm sure it has happened, but it is not a common experience with the 5th gen 4runner. There are plenty owners here and on other 4runner forums who have kitted out their 4runners and taken them on arduous trails or even weeks-long expeditions (Expedition Overland, Mountain State Overland) without issue. Just because a LC is built to a higher standard doesn't mean the 4runner is incapable of handling abuse.

 

[JLee]

I agree with that statement. Bigger diff, beefier frame, better built interior...a LC will always be a step higher even compared to a LC 'lite.' However, when it comes to offroading/overlanding in stock form the LC Prado/4runner has a lot going for it (the locking rear diff being one of the more defining aspects) that put it on equal footing with the LC or arguably makes it a little bit better. You put an ARB air locker on the LC 200, and that conversation likely becomes a moot point. But in stock form, when comparing a vehicle with a locker to one without a locker, there is going to be a slight difference in performance...and if a LC 200 owner can't acknowledge that, I'll chalk it up to cool-aid drinking.



Well, you go with aftermarket anything in place of OEM, you do risk failure. As for stock gears failing, again I'm sure it has happened, but it is not a common experience with the 5th gen 4runner. There are plenty owners here and on other 4runner forums who have kitted out their 4runners and taken them on arduous trails or even weeks-long expeditions (Expedition Overland, Mountain State Overland) without issue. Just because a LC is built to a higher standard doesn't mean the 4runner is incapable of handling abuse.

FWIW the guys I know upgraded because their OE gears failed. Also note that the 5th gen has an 8.2" rear, vs the 8.0" in the 4th gen's. I would expect it to hold up better.

 

[LJFTW]

The 200 is definitely a trail rig. You just have to be willing to ********** the corners.

(That's not me. I'm not a madman like the Mudders that visited Moab last weekend.)
Driver: Atwalz Photo: E. Reiten