Weak V6 a dealbreaker?

[normal_dave]

While torque is important, I think the best kept secret of the 3.8L in the "Limited" '03 and up is the electronic traction control system. It is light years beyond most of what was available at the time, and combined with the locking center and AWD/4WD, makes the Monty quite capable.

For me the price of entry into the 2003+ was too high, so I opted for an '02 in good cosmetic/decent mechanical, and resolved I could catch up the maintenance myself. If you are handy with a wrench, patient and willing, then game on.

 

[CrispyCracker]

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful replies. Very, very helpful. Time for me to buckle down and consider my options.

FWIW, the (very nice) guy I'm looking to buy an XLS from is a knowledgeable dude. He owns a 1990 Montero that is a flat gorgeous vehicle. It has 400K on the clock and he's in the process of fixing a blown head gasket on it for the second time in its long life. He bought the XLS as a means of getting around in the meantime (so he is honest about not knowing much about its maintenance history). The XLS has 148k miles, good paint (other than scratches around the tailgate which I'd fix/repaint myself), interior is in great shape and undercarriage is rust free. He has added KYB gas adjustable front struts for front and some "Amazon off brand" struts for rear. He suggests that if I buy the vehicle I should order rear springs to account for a slightly squatty stance (I'd consider the Adventure Driven Designs springs suggested by coffeegoat, especially given the fact that I'll be towing my little skiff often). Does have a rear cam seal leak that drips on exhaust. He has a top end gasket kit for valve covers, plugs, etc and also a tranny filter kit that he'll include in price; wondering if I can talk him into doing the work as part of the purchase price. If I have a concern it's that he's added new 34-inch ATs that would likely slow the vehicle down some (though they look damn good, I must say). Says it runs 70 on the freeway effortlessly, though. I'm meeting him tomorrow to see the vehicle in person and possibly purchase it. Wish me luck, and thanks again for the insights. Here she is:

 

[coffeegoat]

I hear great things about the springs they carry here.

 

[nnamssorxela]

Crispy, where are you located, GA or the southeast if I recall? I noticed all the “less than perfect” reviews of power are coming from users located in Colorado or the Rockies in general, myself included. All cars lose power as altitude increases, and steep and fast mountain passes are (in my opinion) some of the toughest conditions to put a car though. The interstates are nuts out here where traffic is hitting 80 in the slow lane. And to do that uphill for miles seems like torture.
I have heavy 235/85 (almost 33&#8221 on my 3.8 03+ montero and it made a MASSIVE difference for the worse in the feel of the vehicle. My MPG is horrible, and the power is lacking. I can still cruise at 80 easily on the flats, but as soon as I get into the mountains I move to the slow lane and depend on the “manual” portion of the gear box to stop the constant upshift-downshift. Passing is not out of the question, but it certainly requires planning and is almost always a white-knuckle experience unless on flat land.
That said, I plan on getting the 4.9 gears and some lighter tires soon which I expect will make the car feel like it did when I bought it. There is no shortage of torque in low range off-road, and this car does handle highway like a dream, and is very comfortable. I did ~12 hours in one leg a few weekends ago, and the cars and I barely felt it.
Regarding the cam seals, if they are on the rear the o-rings are maybe $5 and 10 minutes of time. If it is the valve covers leaking, they are doable but require pulling the intake manifold which does take quite a bit of time.

 

[normal_dave]

Palm trees, sandy soil, towing a skiff, angle of the sun...I'd say middle West coast Florida. :coffeedrink:

Anyhow, looks like that XLS has been for sale awhile, (mid-August), don't fear making yourself a deal. Seriously, flat-land use, and towing your rig, you'll be fine.

 

[CrispyCracker]

nnam, I take your point about flat land and the XLS's modest power. Not as big a deal down here. That said, I do plan to travel extensively in it once it's buttoned up so it may become an issue then. Oh, and thanks for the note re: the cam seals. Thing is leaking badly there. Good to hear that I can add that repair to the "Even I can do it" column since the "Damn mechanic's gotta handle this one" list is getting pretty long.

normal_dave wrote: "Palm trees, sandy soil, towing a skiff, angle of the sun...I'd say middle West coast Florida."

The powers of deduction are strong in this one. I'm in Naples, Florida. Still recovering from the hurricane here. I need to replace our roof, ceiling, back porch, front porch, most of my large trees, etc. So it makes perfect sense to go spend money on a vehicle right now. :sombrero: Good to hear that you think the truck'll have adequate power for my needs. It does have the 4.9 rear, I'm told, which'll help with grunt even when saddled with big tires. As noted in another thread my biggest concern is the retreads on it right now that IMO are out of round and causing some shake in the steering wheel. The current tires (and cheap spacer lift) are living on borrowed time since I plan to replace them with KO2s, OEM or ADD springs and eventually Bilstein shocks. After I get the big-******** oil leak fixed and follow detailed maintenance tips supplied by resident Montero-er Micheal Brown, that is.

 

[Salonika]

The Montero is not a towing vehicle. It is a vehicle that can tow, but it wasn't designed to be a power tow vehicle. Mitsu knew that Americans would always prefer our Ford and Chevy trucks for any real towing.

 

[CrispyCracker]

I guess I don't see the omission of a commonly valued feature as a thoughtful strategy. My '03 Grand Cherokee can drag 6500 lbs and with its torque and effortless power (4.7 H.O.) I almost forget my skiff/trailer is even back there. If I'm stuck behind a slow vehicle I simply sink the accelerator and they disappear in my rear view mirror. I can literally outrun most vehicles from a light towing 2500 lbs of boat and trailer. That sort of power is not just compelling -- it eminently useful.

I just put money into a Montero since I've already succumbed to its charms. It's spacious, well-designed, seemingly tough and very unique. But this place is full of testimonials from owners who admit (openly or tacitly) that the power-to-weight ratio is poor. I have a towing option so I'm not going to sweat it much, but for folks who invest in a Montero assuming their sole SUV can do what many comparable SUVs do -- go offroad, onroad, carry lots of folks and also tow a trailer -- it's gotta suck to find out they're sub-par in the latter category. A thought I see woven throughout Montero-related threads is that a lack of marketing and an unfair assessment by Consumer Reports doomed them to obscurity, but from my humble perspective they did themselves no favors by not introducing a higher HP powerplant into a market where muscled-up vehicles are an expectation rather than a luxury.

I already like my Montero, even in its rough-around-the-edges state. I'm really looking forward to improving it cosmetically and mechanically while tracking the creativity and progress of other owners. But I agree with those who say the weak V6 limits its appeal. No vehicle is perfect but the decision to drop a 200 or 215 HP engine in a 4000+ lb. tank is, to my mind, the intuitive reason why they never fared as well in the states as they should have given their many redeeming qualities.

 

[Rod]

But didnt other manufacturer of similar vehicle that year all have about the same HP (Land Cruiser,Land Rovers & 4runners)? I think you might be a little spoiled with the V8 in the jeep lol

 

[Swank Force One]

But didnt other manufacturer of similar vehicle that year all have about the same HP (Land Cruiser,Land Rovers & 4runners)? I think you might be a little spoiled with the V8 in the jeep lol

They did.

And had less aggressive gearing. Most of this thread is people just focusing on motor output, not Output Torque. The cheapest way to equal 03-06 Montero output torque in the Toyota line up is with an 05-06 Tundra (lots more money) or a 5spd auto FJ100 Land Cruiser (lots more money.) None of the 4spd v8 Toyotas do it.

I've towed with our 03. It did great. Open car hauler with a car on it. The much more aggressive gearing of the Montero helps it to punch far above its weight class. Would it punch over The Continental Divide in overdrive at 70mph? Probably not. Not much does short of a diesel dually.

Anyone finding a Gen3 scary to tow with, specifically, is either trying to do it with an 01-02 XLS, a worn out suspension, an ill-running truck, or some combination of the three.

 

[CrispyCracker]

It take the point about comparable Japanese vehicles at the time offering similar powerplants. But my Jeep is from the same era as the XLS and it offers great torque and 65 more horses.

SwankForce, you seem to imply that the XLS is inferior (in regards to towing) when compared to ensuing models. Yet others in this forum have said (if I recall correctly) that despite the 15 fewer horsepower the 4.9 gearing in the 01-02 XLS models lends them an advantage in terms of grunt. Just wondering which perspective is more accurate.

Like I say, I'm a big fan of the Montero and I'll likely become an even bigger one. I just believe in honest assessments re: benefits and shortcomings.

 

[normal_dave]

Let's see what Yoda has to say on the subject of Montero capabilities overall, and in regards to towing:
"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is."

But my Jeep is from the same era as the XLS and it offers great torque and 65 more horses.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."

I think if we had the diesel engine option that you can get everywhere else in the world but the US, we'd pretty well have it made. Give the new Monty some "time in the saddle", I've really come to appreciate the overall capabilities, and I wouldn't trade any of the Montero's features for a little more torque and horsepower.

My guess is the Limited with the 5-speed "sportronic" vs the XLS 4-speed trans might be a little more friendly towards keeping the engine in the higher torque range needed to more happily pull the boat. The XLS has the better 4.9 final ratio, but I really like the steps between gears of the Limited 5-speed, and the ability to easily switch up/down when in the hills, using the side gate option on shifter.

While we're having a little too much fun, Yoda has one more piece of advice:
"Yes! Yes! To Obi Wan, (Michael Brown), you listen."

I'll say again, just a change of expectations, once you get to know the truck and work through the oil leak/maintenance gremlins, I predict the days in the Jeep will become a distant memory, (remember I'm a Chrysler and Jeep fan...). The solidness, and quietness of the body, the relative gracefulness over the washboard roads, reminds me of my mountain bike, able to carefully, slowly, safely pick my way through off-road hazards, where too much power and speed would fail me. The comfort and room of the Monty, voluminous rear cargo space, and it is so convertible. The tumble seat option yields lots of versatile space.

Welcome to the club, research and get the right springs, while you're at it, if your truck doesn't have an OEM receiver hitch, look for one. I found mine in the junkyard, along with the factory light wiring harness. While it's a fair amount of work, it's more stout than aftermarket, and the receiver sits higher, to reduce departure angle somewhat.

 

[Swank Force One]

It take the point about comparable Japanese vehicles at the time offering similar powerplants. But my Jeep is from the same era as the XLS and it offers great torque and 65 more horses.

SwankForce, you seem to imply that the XLS is inferior (in regards to towing) when compared to ensuing models. Yet others in this forum have said (if I recall correctly) that despite the 15 fewer horsepower the 4.9 gearing in the 01-02 XLS models lends them an advantage in terms of grunt. Just wondering which perspective is more accurate.

Like I say, I'm a big fan of the Montero and I'll likely become an even bigger one. I just believe in honest assessments re: benefits and shortcomings.

The trans is the biggest advantage. The 3.8 is more than just the peak hp advantage as well. That said, i'd still feel comfy towing a car on an open hauler with an 01-2 Limited. The trans does a great job putting the motor to work.

Again, i wouldnt buy a Montero to tow, specifically. But, as part of a "jack of all trades role," it's pretty good for it in my experiences.

Your Jeep is pretty good for that role as well. However i'd rather give up some power in favor of size/weight/stability since i rank power behind stability and braking when it comes to towing. Gen3 Monty is bigger and heavier. I'll take it over a Grand Cherokee prior to current generation, but that's personal preference between two SUVs that weren't really built FOR towing.

 

[CrispyCracker]

Schooled by Yoda before my first coffee of the morning. Gonna be a rough day. :ylsmoke:

Like I say, I'm open minded and looking forward to my first Montero experience. I just love the seemingly endless power band in my WJ and I wonder how badly I'll miss it when in the XLS. We'll see. I'll start a modest build thread after I pick her up. Thanks, all.

 

[Michael Brown]

Mitsubishi didn't win 11 Dakar races with the fastest or most powerful vehicle. They won by reaching the end first without falling apart. :coffeedrink: