Seeing My WJ in a New Light...and Some Questions for the Resident Pros

So I've spent a lot of time in the forums the last couple of months researching an ideal expedition vehicle. I plan to use the truck to visit local state parks, camp and do some exploring, and I have more larger plans to take it to Western Canada, California, etc. on some extended trips (along with a buddy and his wife) to national parks and whatnot. I get my kicks in my son's XJ with its big lift and tires, but I have a vision in mind here: plush seats and sound system, smooth ride on highways and back roads, capable performance on trails, room for adequate camping/exploring tools. No rock crawling, no deep mud, no jarring suspension...but able to handle mild-to-moderate offroad challenges.

I don't have the free cash some the resident heavyweights do since my budget is split between other hobbies -- most notably a love of backcountry fishing -- so I had narrowed down my focus on an early Gen 3 Mitsu Montero and a 1st Gen Xterra (with a 3rd Gen 4runner lingering on the edges). The new truck fund has been further diminished by damage to our home by Hurricane Irma, so the older vehicles just make sense. Both are great platforms -- and I'll probably end up buying one or the other as a fun-capable tow vehicle, regardless. But each morning and evening I walk past my wife's ride -- a 2003 WJ Overland -- that I had never considered as an expedition option. Maybe it's the reverence for Japanese vehicles in overlanding circles, maybe the lingering influence of the invincible old LandCruiser I learned to drive in on a Central American farm, or maybe it's just that I always viewed the WJ as "the wife's ride" so I never considered it in this light. But seeing some of the WJs in this joint I'm changing my mind.

The reason I'm excited about the WJ is some advantages it has over the Japanese options. I love the uniqueness and relative rarity of the Montero, its comfortable cabin and its overbuilt profile, but the 3.5 and 3.8 motors offer less-than-impressive weight-to-power ratios and parts can be tough to source. I love the lines and overall character of the old Xterras and the fact that they're easy to source parts for, but their VG33 motors are also relatively weak and their truck-like ride raises question marks for a long-distance vehicle. My WJ, by contrast, has a beastly 4.7 HO power plant that provides addictive acceleration and power, solid axles, a tough Dana 44 rear axle, and the Quadra-Drive tranny that seems to be held in high regard by many. I've taken good care of the truck since it totes my wife and little one around and tows my skiff, but the few times I've taken it into the sticks it's been surprisingly capable. Parts aren't tough to find domestically, and I've invested time and money into it already (plugs, new radiator, new starter and alternator, etc.) So, given that it's now a contender for an expedition build, I have some questions for the local pros:

• Do you consider the WJ Overland platform (and the 4.7 motor and QuadraDrive tranny, specifically) as reliable as the aforementioned Japanese options?
• Given my goals, what sort of basic suspension components would you recommend? Is there are complete kit that would do the trick?
• What maintenance items are critical to this WJ platform, and what would you repair or replace before undertaking long trips?

A list of essential mods would be a supremely useful starting point for me.

So it's said, I've done my homework and researched many of these issues in here already, but I see differing opinions on lifts, maintenance, etc. so I'd like to field them here. Also, know that I'm fairly handy but no mechanical wizard. That is, I've installed stuff like starters and radiators and brakes but many of the folks in this forum make my technical skill set seem almost childish.

I'll be very appreciative of any and all replies.

- John in Florida

My stock WJ:

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I had an 01 Overland that I picked up used a few years back, one owner and all records. Had around 90k on it when I got it. The shocks were worn so I put on old man emu light duty kit to get rid of the wallowing and a set of all terrains in the stock size ( could have went up a size or 2) also added a tuner and borla exhaust when the factory one cracked. It was a totally powerful, capable and surprising vehicle. Great for the hunting and fishing I do, along the lines of what you have mentioned. Did have a few problems with the starter giving up and radiator having to be replaced but was 12 years old when purchased. I would have no worries in one!! Don't forget the lsd addative when the axles start to chatter!!
 

GCWJ

New member
And don't allow the engine to overheat. The 4.7 has a tendency to drop valve seats into the cylinder if the head warms up enough to loosen them. That'll brick the engine real quick. Keep the oil changed and running cool and it'll give years of service.

QuadraDrive is a decent all-around system. It's good in snow and sand, and also helps a great deal in mud. The only issues I know of where it doesn't do so well is when you've got two wheels in the air. But how often does an overlander do that? You can use the brake trick and drive with two feet to help that situation out. Like said before, add the modifier when changing diff oil and make sure you use the Mopar nv247 fluid in the tcase and you should be all set.

I have a 99 4.7 Laredo (non-HO, but I won't cry about it) that I'll be aiming at the same target you are over the next few years. My intent with that will be a 3" (or close) lift, 31" A/Ts, LSDs of some kind (perhaps the QD axles, they are a bolt-in replacement), onboard air compressor and some sort of removable storage system for camping gear and parts. Which parts and which gear I'll shake out later when I'm using it for that!

Right now it is my DD and as I have only owned it for about two years, I'm the guy who gets to make up for the last 18 years it's been living in states that use road salts. I have a bit of repair and replacement work to do.

My wife's WJ has been receiving all the love this year due to the fact that it carries her and my 2-yo daughter most of the time. Now that I have 95% of its safety issues ironed out (brakes, tie rods, ball joints, etc.) I'll turn my attention to my own ride for a while.

I'll be watching this to see where you take it.
 

GCWJ

New member
Actually...how does your wife feel about the idea of you taking her DD and building it? :coffeedrink:
 

JeepN95YJ

Adventurer
This was my basic list for mine.


3” Iron Rock Offroad Suspension
Bilstein 5125 Shocks
All new spring isolators front and rear
¾” Spacer up front to accommodate the weight of winch
Warn 9.5xp Winch
HK Offroad Hidden Winch Plate (This is a very nice piece. I will be making a few modifications)
2015 Rubicon Takeoff Rims and 255/75/17 Tires
Spidertrax 1.25" Wheel Spacers
Home Built Control arms using Currie Johnny Joints
High Clearance IRO Transmission Crossmember
Addco Rear Swaybar
JKS Disconnects (adapted from my old TJ)
ARB 50QT Fridge
1500W Power Inverter
Cargo Barrier Rear Storage system.
Dash Mounted CB/Ham Radio
Dash mounted Tablet with GPS Maps
Specialized Tool Kit and Spare parts List.
Kolak 2.5" Exhaust (I took advantage of his Christmas Special)
ARB CKMA12 Air Compressor

I absolutely love my WJ. Build thread here.
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/150981-2002-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-Build-Thread
 

paroxysym

Adventurer
• Do you consider the WJ Overland platform (and the 4.7 motor and QuadraDrive tranny, specifically) as reliable as the aforementioned Japanese options?
• Given my goals, what sort of basic suspension components would you recommend? Is there are complete kit that would do the trick?
• What maintenance items are critical to this WJ platform, and what would you repair or replace before undertaking long trips?

I had a 4.7 2002 WJ for a few months before totaling it, now I have a 4.7 WK and can say this about the 4.7- basic maintenance done on time with quality materials will go far. im currently at 192k on my 2007 WK. the 4.7 has been great, at 200k ill be doing timing chains but up until now just basic maintenance and replacing parts with mopar replacements does go a long way. like said above, keep an eye on engine temps and don't overheat the 4.7. my water pump started leaking around 165k, and OEM radiator just split at 191k so I feel like they lasted a good amount of time.

I run OME and you honestly cant go wrong with an OME kit on any platform- shocks, springs, depending on the mileage the control arms.

the only issue I know with the WJ is the viscous coupler
 
Thanks to all who replied.

sasquatch15, I tow a skiff quite often (2500 #s or so all in). Would you recommend the OME heavy duty kit or would the light duty kit suffice? Any additional mod you'd recommend for frequent towing?

GCWJ, turns out my wife is having none of it. She's told me to "find my own Jeep." I understand re: giving your wife's ride all the love. My wife's WJ totes around my little 6-year-old (and her) so I've kept it stock (save the Wrangler wheels) with good tires and stayed up on maintenance. In fact, it's going in this week for a main seal leak repair that is beyond my modest shadetree abilities. Tranny must be dropped, I'm told, and the leak appears too big to attempt one of the in-a-bottle cures. Anyhoo, given that she loves her Jeep I'll be looking for a used WJ to modify for camping, towing and occasional long-distance adventures. I just found a 2004 Overland locally with less than half the miles our 2003 has on the clock. Negotiating a price right now.

JeepN95YJ , your build list looks very much like my wish list. I may go even more modest with a 2" OME lift but I'll admit that the 3" IRO lifts look (to me) better and I'm sure provide superior articulation. I'm just worried about the compromised ride quality and stress on stock components that (from what I read) seems to come with so many 2+-inch lifts. Your build thread it great, btw.

paroxysym (great screen name), I'll take your advice about OEM parts. I spent a couple of hours yesterday with my son switching out the tranny mount in his XJ and I tried to impress upon him the importance of quality parts.

As for heat, I've trained my wife to keep an eye on the WJ's heat gauge and to shut it down if it acts strange in any way. On that note, she recently mentioned that she was smelling "a funky smelling white smoke." So yesterday (after confirming the main seal leak that is dripping on the cat) I also pulled the radiator cap and ran the motor for a bit. Sure enough some very small bubbles kept appearing in the coolant. Not bad, but enough to possibly signal a small head gasket leak. In this case I think I will try something like Bar's Leak's Repair to see if I can patch up a small crease in the gasket. Wish me luck.

So it's said, it's great to see folks in this expedition forum who love their WJ's. The more I read about the way some of you are using your vehicles the more I'm convinced that they are a criminally underrated platform -- especially when used domestically where parts and Jeep-savvy mechanics are readily available. Some of the builds I'm seeing in here and elsewhere are inspiring.
 

jclaudii

New member
I have had a '99 WJ 4.0 for years! I have swapped two motors into it, it is now on it's 3rd 4.0. has a 3.5 lift kit from RRO, I think it was 2 inch springs with 1.5 inch spacers with front lower control arms.

I bought the jeep this way and after playing in the "donor" jeep for a bit I have came to the conclusion my suspension rides like a 3/4 ton truck! I knew it was a bit rough, but wow it went from all squishy in the stocker to pretty stiff and feelin' all the bumps. I even added Bilstein 5100's from Kolak which helped some. The main issue is the angle of the front control arms; They are just so short and have a steeper angle which just transfers load to the body more than the shocks.

If your wanting to keep your comfy ride, I would suggest a long arm kit. I say this and I have never ridden in one, but with all the problems I have had and bushings I have replaced over the years, it really can't be worse. Even a 3.5 -4 inch long arm would be very tame on the street but maintain that comfy ride and have the adjustability in the system to dial in a DW free ride! Not to mention many kits have some beef to them and component protection so some abuse could occur while your learning and still be able to get you and your family back home.

The only thing that is frustrating on these rigs is Death Wobble. It can happen with a stocker, 1.5 Budget Boost, and any lift up to the max. The main culprits are worn out components from tie rods, control arm bushings, track bar bushings, wheel hub bearings, and even tire pressure. It mainly came to fruition more when I put new tires on that were C rated instead of the heavy E rated.

A dependable vehicle is always more fun, perhaps talk the wife into the new WJ and you get the old WJ for the playtoy. With a possible head gasket issue it's easy to fix now if you only had another rig your wife can drive while it's down. As you gain more knowledge about these rigs, it will be easier on your wallet to maintenance them. These things are in every pull it yard across the nation and even buying a wrecked running jeep can easily be found for 500 or less. And speaking of maintenance, the rear main seal can be replaced without removing the Transmission or even messing with it. Heck, I bet even with some cussing you could do it as it is no fun working on your back in the cramped space that is below the engine and above the axle/drive shaft, but it is very dooable without removing the transmission from the engine or messing with the tranny pan. I did have to laugh when I saw you mention "jeep savy mechanics". Either I live in a crap place but jeep savy mechanics are always hard to find. The main problem is finding someone with common sense and actual successful fixes under their belt. A good example is to solve death wobble, many mechanics will milk the crap out of that and replace LOTS of stuff OR go simple and put a new steering stabilizer on and say it's fixed.

The preferred transfer case for these jeeps is the Selec Trac or whatever it is called, NP242 the one that has 2h, 4full, 4part, n, 4low. The NP247, the one that has 4full, n, 4low works but usually the part that engages the front stops working, it's some type of clutch setup and with lots of miles or improper fluid they usually wear out. With the NP242 you get the best of both xfer cases. YOu can still use the 4full if it works and if not not big deal you can use 4 part time to physically lock in the front/rear.

If you ever did want to use lockers and the such the d35 seems to have more options out for it than the aluminum D44. But depending on your option package it may come standard with the aD44. Either way if one goes bad another can be picked up at the junk yard for around 100-150 and almost any shop knows how to work on them.

I do agree they are capable rigs but due to their year range they are all aging and some are worse off than others as to what components need replaced. It's hard to beat Autozone, Advance, Oreilly, etc with their lifetime warranty on ball joints, TRE, brakes, radiators, u joints, etc, etc as over time it's easy to replace this stuff with only time as your cost and the convenience of having one of these in most towns you'll pass through. And as the kids get older it's fun to have them help do a brake job or change a tie rod end.

good luck either getting the new rig or taking over the Wife's.
 
CC I think a 2500# skiff would be no problem on the light duty which does raise the rear spring rate a bit iirc. As long as you are not running a bumper or winch you will enjoy it.
 

comptiger5000

Adventurer
How do you replace the rear main seal without dropping the transmission?

Depends on the engine. If you've got a 1 piece rear main, you have to pull the trans to change it. If it's a 2 piece, you drop the oil pan and pull the rear main bearing cap, then you can change the 2 seal halves from there. I'm not sure if the 4.7 seal is 1 or 2 piece, however.
 

jclaudii

New member
How do you replace the rear main seal without dropping the transmission?

I spoke for the 4.0 NOT the 4.7 that the OP has. My bad and I am sorry for the confusion.

It does appear your transmission needs to be moved back some to get at the seal. Does not appear to be a hard process, just time consuming and working in tight space. Pulling the xfer case will give you plenty of room to just slide the transmission backward while the seal work is done. Heck the hardest part is more than likely the exhaust bolts and moving those pieces out of the working way and the top bolts on the bell housing.

With this being said, it may be easier/cheaper to pull the engine instead so you can replace the rear main seal and go after the head gaskets in one go.
 

JeepN95YJ

Adventurer
Depends on the engine. If you've got a 1 piece rear main, you have to pull the trans to change it. If it's a 2 piece, you drop the oil pan and pull the rear main bearing cap, then you can change the 2 seal halves from there. I'm not sure if the 4.7 seal is 1 or 2 piece, however.

Of course you are correct. The 4.7 is a one piece seal.
 

maxfederle89

New member
I've had my WJ for less than a year and I'm loving it. It's my first jeep too. I've been working more towards the expedition overland mindset. But with my lift I did cheap out and didn't get Bilsteins. Probably should have for comfort. Also considering LCA's and a heavier rear sway bar eventually. But with the regular 4.7 I love it!! Most fun vehicle I've ever owned
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