Why so few GM Builds?

rkj__

Adventurer
It won't do that last 10% very well though and, to some, that last 10% matters.

Very true. In some cases I've encountered, most of the road / trail is very easily traveled in a basic stock 4x4, but there is one or two obstacles, like a small washout or creek crossing, that require a better approach and breakover angle than you find on a basic stock 4x4. So, even if your vehicle is capable of doing 90% of the trail, you may not be able to access 50+% of it, if you need to be able to cross one of those "gatekeeper" obstacles to get to the rest of the easy trail.
 

onac255

New member
I bought my wife and kids a new Z71 Tahoe and used it as intended this past summer. All stock.

Loaded up with everything I needed for a family of 5, including our 7th month old, and headed to PINS and SPI.

Lots of vehicles were stuck... Including many 3/4 ton trucks.

We never got stuck...

My new to me daily is a 2010 Yukon. I love it and this is coming from my 1997 F150 that I loved.

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Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

BlackBurb

New member
We've been overlanding in stock GM vehicles for many years. The GMT400, GMT800 and GMT900 series trucks and full size SUV's easily handle mild off-roading and eat up highway miles in comfort. As BritKLR mentioned, "Parts and service have always been reasonable and easy to work on." I'll add that we've never had any issues with the GM IFS 4wd system, on trucks with minimal modifications to the suspension.

As for the comments re: limited aftermarket support. Not true. You can get suspension lifts, aftermarket bumpers, roof baskets, etc. For interior storage and organization look at Fleet and LEO upfitters.

The Suburban/Yukon XL has been the best platform for our family of 5 +retriever, for daily use and week long unsupported expeditions. The Burb gets used daily and weekends & holidays as our expedition vehicle into Anza Borrego, Big Bear, Johnson Valley, Death Valley, Colorado, Utah, etc. The last pic is a weekend day trip to Anza Borrego, Dos Cabezas Railway station ruins. We also backcountry camped all over Death Valley. Our favorite spot is eye of the needle in echo canyon.

1985, 1990, 1994, 1997 Chevy/GMC Suburban 1500 4x4's: These were the trucks that my parents owned and I used to haul friends to the lake and ski trips to Colorado. The only mod these trucks received was 31" Goodyear Wrangler tires. These trucks definitely set my bias for GM trucks as excellent platforms for family "expedition" use. The '90 suburban was capable of clearing CO state highways of hood tall snow drifts with ease, no plow.

I have owned a Ford Bronco II and Toyota 4Runner. Both had major mechanical issues that standout because they required a tow. Ford used CV joints on the rear drive shaft. The rear CV boots wore through every 10k for the 60k miles I owned it, due to the severe angle of the stock driveline. The 4Runner was a 1990 V6 and blew head gaskets constantly... still got $10k for it in '96 with 110K on the odo. Yota's do hold their resale value even with known engine issues.

My personal vehicles:
2000 GMC Yukon XL 1500 4x4 XLT: Expedition ready off the lot. The only modification was leveling it with a torsion bar crank to fit Michelin LTX 285/75-16 tires... on the ugliest chrome typhoon wheels I've ever seen(PO contribution). It handled the terrain (rocky hill climbs, sandy desert washes, rough, rocky mining roads and blasting down forest service trails) we subjected it to well. Sold with over 250k miles and no serious mechanical issues. I did have to replace the trans at 218k. My fault, hit a wet spot on slick pavement accelerated for "fun" G80 engaged at the same time the trans 1-2 up-shift, broke the low/rev sprag when the rear tire hit dry pavement... still drove it home and to the dealer on Monday. Other than the trans I replaced the rear "auto-ride" air shock suspension system twice.

2011 Chevy Suburban 1500 Z71 Factory G80 w/4lo (not all GMT900 series burbs have 4lo): No lift... yet. 265/70R18 (32.5x10.5) Michelin Defender LTX M/S Tires. I've also built a 2 drawer system for the rear cargo area. Works great for expedition camping. No reliability issues. Has a few of the usual GMT900 platform issues; Cracked dash and uses oil excessively IMO. GM says it's normal for the LS to use 2 quarts in 4K miles with the AFM system. We completed the White Rim Trail in this truck. What I found interesting about my experience on the white rim is that the jeep(Barlow Jeep Tours) out there were running 1 ton drivelines with 37-40" tires making them much wider than the burb. I had to side hill the burb several times on hard scrabble hill(steep rocky switch backs and shelf road) so they could pass on the outside edge.

1997 C1500 ECSB 2wd, 277k miles: I've owned this truck for 21yrs. Used it on the family farm, lots of long distance travel, towing, camping, etc. I still use it to haul our dual sports to OHV parks and trail heads. I used it last weekend to scout about 20 miles of forest roads that are severely washed out and rutted. It does have a 2" level lift, 31" tires and Auburn limited slip rear. Those mods help a lot off-road. I've taken it through some very rough gas line roads in the Ord mountain area. 4wd side by sides were getting stuck on a steep rock section and the old pick-up just bounced through with a little momentum. I did replace the engine at 218k mikes. Again, my fault due to deferred maintenance... and I let it over heat and dumped ice cold water into the motor, cracked the heads. It was cheaper ($1600) to mail order and install a new crate motor from GM myself, than to have the dealer replace the cracked cylinder heads. Would have been even cheaper if I had replaced the original water pump at 200k miles...

So I'm not taking my full size trucks through the king of hammers, the rubicon, or Baja, etc. I ride my dual sport for those adventures. But the burbs and pickup have got us to superb backcountry areas so that we can enjoy our time off.

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To answer the original question, "Why so few GM builds? Look at the pics of my Z71. In those pics, it's loaded with Supplies and shelter for 4-5 ppl for up to 5 days unsupported in the desert and backcountry. There's enough space inside without having to hang baskets with recovery gear etc. I built a simple 2 drawer system for that purpose. The wife and I would like to stop sleeping on the ground in a tent, so we are considering a hardtop RTT or off-road trailer that can double as a dirt bike hauler... not a RV toy hauler.
 
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zoomad75

K5 Camper guy
We've been overlanding in stock GM vehicles for many years. The GMT400, GMT800 and GMT900 series trucks and full size SUV's easily handle mild off-roading and eat up highway miles in comfort. As BritKLR mentioned, "Parts and service have always been reasonable and easy to work on." I'll add that we've never had any issues with the GM IFS 4wd system, on trucks with minimal modifications to the suspension.

As for the comments re: limited aftermarket support. Not true. You can get suspension lifts, aftermarket bumpers, roof baskets, etc. For interior storage and organization look at Fleet and LEO upfitters.

The Suburban/Yukon XL has been the best platform for our family of 5 +retriever, for daily use and week long unsupported expeditions. The Burb gets used daily and weekends & holidays as our expedition vehicle into Anza Borrego, Big Bear, Johnson Valley, Death Valley, Colorado, Utah, etc. The last pic is a weekend day trip to Anza Borrego, Dos Cabezas Railway station ruins. We also backcountry camped all over Death Valley. Our favorite spot is eye of the needle in echo canyon.

1985, 1990, 1994, 1997 Chevy/GMC Suburban 1500 4x4's: These were the trucks that my parents owned and I used to haul friends to the lake and ski trips to Colorado. The only mod these trucks received was 31" Goodyear Wrangler tires. These trucks definitely set my bias for GM trucks as excellent platforms for family "expedition" use. The '90 suburban was capable of clearing CO state highways of hood tall snow drifts with ease, no plow.

I have owned a Ford Bronco II and Toyota 4Runner. Both had major mechanical issues that standout because they required a tow. Ford used CV joints on the rear drive shaft. The rear CV boots wore through every 10k for the 60k miles I owned it, due to the severe angle of the stock driveline. The 4Runner was a 1990 V6 and blew head gaskets constantly... still got $10k for it in '96 with 110K on the odo. Yota's do hold their resale value even with known engine issues.

My personal vehicles:
2000 GMC Yukon XL 1500 4x4 XLT: Expedition ready off the lot. The only modification was leveling it with a torsion bar crank to fit Michelin LTX 285/75-16 tires... on the ugliest chrome typhoon wheels I've ever seen(PO contribution). It handled the terrain (rocky hill climbs, sandy desert washes, rough, rocky mining roads and blasting down forest service trails) we subjected it to well. Sold with over 250k miles and no serious mechanical issues. I did have to replace the trans at 218k. My fault, hit a wet spot on slick pavement accelerated for "fun" G80 engaged at the same time the trans 1-2 up-shift, broke the low/rev sprag when the rear tire hit dry pavement... still drove it home and to the dealer on Monday. Other than the trans I replaced the rear "auto-ride" air shock suspension system twice.

2011 Chevy Suburban 1500 Z71 Factory G80 w/4lo (not all GMT900 series burbs have 4lo): No lift... yet. 265/70R18 (32.5x10.5) Michelin Defender LTX M/S Tires. I've also built a 2 drawer system for the rear cargo area. Works great for expedition camping. No reliability issues. Has a few of the usual GMT900 platform issues; Cracked dash and uses oil excessively IMO. GM says it's normal for the LS to use 2 quarts in 4K miles with the AFM system. We completed the White Rim Trail in this truck. What I found interesting about my experience on the white rim is that the jeep(Barlow Jeep Tours) out there were running 1 ton drivelines with 37-40" tires making them much wider than the burb. I had to side hill the burb several times on hard scrabble hill(steep rocky switch backs and shelf road) so they could pass on the outside edge.

1997 C1500 ECSB 2wd, 277k miles: I've owned this truck for 21yrs. Used it on the family farm, lots of long distance travel, towing, camping, etc. I still use it to haul our dual sports to OHV parks and trail heads. I used it last weekend to scout about 20 miles of forest roads that are severely washed out and rutted. It does have a 2" level lift, 31" tires and Auburn limited slip rear. Those mods help a lot off-road. I've taken it through some very rough gas line roads in the Ord mountain area. 4wd side by sides were getting stuck on a steep rock section and the old pick-up just bounced through with a little momentum. I did replace the engine at 218k mikes. Again, my fault due to deferred maintenance... and I let it over heat and dumped ice cold water into the motor, cracked the heads. It was cheaper ($1600) to mail order and install a new crate motor from GM myself, than to have the dealer replace the cracked cylinder heads. Would have been even cheaper if I had replaced the original water pump at 200k miles...

So I'm not taking my full size trucks through the king of hammers, the rubicon, or Baja, etc. I ride my dual sport for those adventures. But the burbs and pickup have got us to superb backcountry areas so that we can enjoy our time off.

View attachment 480019View attachment 480020View attachment 480021

To answer the original question, "Why so few GM builds? Look at the pics of my Z71. In those pics, it's loaded with Supplies and shelter for 4-5 ppl for up to 5 days unsupported in the desert and backcountry. There's enough space inside without having to hang baskets with recovery gear etc. I built a simple 2 drawer system for that purpose. The wife and I would like to stop sleeping on the ground in a tent, so we are considering a hardtop RTT or off-road trailer that can double as a dirt bike hauler... not a RV toy hauler.

So you prove a point. Rather than going through a full build you've added decent tires, some inside storage and hit the road. No build needed. Might be a reason why so many others don't have a build on here either.. They are out using them.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
Well the nice part is you don't have to spend a lot to get out there, especially out west. Much of the 'trails' were pretty much blazed by full sized pickups and Forestry Suburbans and can be readily traveled without any expensive build parts. Especially if your preference is to get out and see the sights, rather than the offroading itself.
 

ashtonadams

New member
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I love my Tahoe! :D
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40 gallon fuel tank + diesel power + comfy interior = long distance driving comfort with minimal fuel stops, whereas my former Jeep TJ would have to stop for fuel 3 times as much, and was not very comfy for driving long distances.
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Casey
Your rig is ********** inspiring and I salute you for representing the 2door Tahoe.
 

ashtonadams

New member
The sell more Fords in Texas because the Fords drive like TRUCK'S and work like trucks instead of driving like cars that the 1500 GM Suburban/Tahoe's (Woman Urban Assault Vehicles) do and that were being discussed at the time of that post.
Hey, somebody has to assault and secure those malls and grocery stores! If they don’t, ISIS wins! ?
 

ashtonadams

New member
Nah!

Where's my gun?
Well, do you have a teenage daughter who is about to go on a date? If so, you left it on the kitchen table where you were cleaning it when the Fucktrumpet who is taking her out walked in. ? That’s where I left mine when my baby cousin went on her first date.4FC7B029-7819-4BC2-A9D1-A5E8F130ABA7.jpeg
 

BlackBurb

New member
Well the nice part is you don't have to spend a lot to get out there, especially out west. Much of the 'trails' were pretty much blazed by full sized pickups and Forestry Suburbans and can be readily traveled without any expensive build parts. Especially if your preference is to get out and see the sights, rather than the offroading itself.

We love the off-roading! But we ride our dual sports(I.e. Street legal dirt bike) for the really technical stuff. Off-roading is subjective... IMHO we are off-roading the burb, but we are not rock crawling or mudding. We avoid situations that may require winching but carry recovery gear in the event we misjudge our capabilities. A few examples or our off-road capabilities...

In early Spring of 2017 we completed all 114 miles of the White Rim Road in Canyonlands NP. WRR is considered moderately difficult for high-clearance, four-wheel-drive vehicles. "The steep, exposed sections of the Shafer Trail, Lathrop Canyon Road, Murphy's Hogback, Hardscrabble Hill, and the Mineral Bottom switchbacks make the White Rim road challenging" when the road is dry but nearly impassable during periods of inclement weather. Our visit in the spring was after a Spring snow/rain storm. Schafer had reopened the morning before we arrived in Moab. It snowed, very light accumulation, our first night at Gooseberry camp. There were still muddy sections and water/ice pooled in the rocks. There were two sections where I felt 4wd low was required for controlled assents or descents at Murphy's Hogback and Hardscrabble Hill.

Other areas where we off-road the burb:
Anza Borrego Desert State Park: Arroyo Tapiado, Spit Mountain Road, Olla Wash, Valecito Wash, Dos Cabezas, S. Indian Valley, Sandstone Canyon(prior to the rock fall blocking the trail to full size vehicle) I heard its been cleared but have not been back in over a year.

Death Valley(Super Bloom 2016) backcountry camped near Chloride City Ghost Town and Echo Canyon at Eye of the Needle. Access to these sites required 4wd and off-roading skills. Titus Canyon can be completed on a tricycle:)

CA Mohave Desert: Ord Mountain Reserve and Johnson Valley. The main roads into this area are graded for heavy trucks to access a cinder pit and RV's/trucks pulling toyhaulers to camp sites but the washes and established trails to our base camp require 4wd. There are two sections that have loose rock, pitted(dug out by side by sides), steep 50-60* slopes that requires 4Lo. The old GMT800 Yukon XL would drag it's factory receiver hitch hard enough to plow the hard packed ground at the base of one hill, the GMT900 burb clears with no issues. The GMT900 Z71 has a slightly better rear break over angle compared to the GMT800 Yukon XL.

Just a few examples but gives you an idea of our capabilities off-road.
 

BlackBurb

New member
So you prove a point. Rather than going through a full build you've added decent tires, some inside storage and hit the road. No build needed. Might be a reason why so many others don't have a build on here either.. They are out using them.

Exactly!

Although the tires I am using are a compromise for how we use the burb, >90% daily driver(working) and <10% weekend overlander (playing). I chose the 265/70R18 (32.5x10.5) Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires for a couple reasons. I need decent tires for daily driving that have good wear (>40k) and aren't "noisy." (Required by the wife:) I had BFG AllTerrain's on my 4Runner. They looked awesome, performed well off-road but were sketchy on ice and snow plus annoyingly noise after they wore in and tread wear was terrible <30k. I need tires that grip on wet roads, light snow and off-road. The Michelin's have served me well on many trucks/suv's for a long time. They get by "okay" aired down to 15psi off-road. The tire size was chosen to get a little more ground clearance, they do rub ever so slightly at full compression at the rear and I have no clearance in the front for running snow cables. The 265/70-18 is a standard Ford truck size so less expensive than the burbs original 265/65-18.

BTW: I like your square body camper rig. Considered trading my 97 C1500 for a 73 K1500. It had a good body and frame but way too many driveline issues that needed to be addressed. It was used extensively back east for mudding and the diff and transfers case were water logged...
 

zoomad75

K5 Camper guy
Exactly!

Although the tires I am using are a compromise for how we use the burb, >90% daily driver(working) and <10% weekend overlander (playing). I chose the 265/70R18 (32.5x10.5) Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires for a couple reasons. I need decent tires for daily driving that have good wear (>40k) and aren't "noisy." (Required by the wife:) I had BFG AllTerrain's on my 4Runner. They looked awesome, performed well off-road but were sketchy on ice and snow plus annoyingly noise after they wore in and tread wear was terrible <30k. I need tires that grip on wet roads, light snow and off-road. The Michelin's have served me well on many trucks/suv's for a long time. They get by "okay" aired down to 15psi off-road. The tire size was chosen to get a little more ground clearance, they do rub ever so slightly at full compression at the rear and I have no clearance in the front for running snow cables. The 265/70-18 is a standard Ford truck size so less expensive than the burbs original 265/65-18.

BTW: I like your square body camper rig. Considered trading my 97 C1500 for a 73 K1500. It had a good body and frame but way too many driveline issues that needed to be addressed. It was used extensively back east for mudding and the diff and transfers case were water logged...

Thanks for the appreciation on my rig. It's a solid work in process.

Tire choice is critical for a dual purpose ride like that. Good you found something that works for you. I'm betting that 73 probably had a good amount of hidden rust if it had been a mudding truck. GM didn't start doing any serious rust proofing until the later in the run. You probably dodged a big bullet not taking the trade.
 

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