Will Automakers Get the Market and Make Simple Vehicles Again?

[plh]

....And what you won't hear about is the 35K you invested and the hundreds of hours spent in the garage is only worth 20K when you want to sell it.

Depreciation, happens fast on new cars too. Almost as fast as you can make a lease payment!

 

[Deleted member 9101]

With all the government-mandated crumple zones and other safety features, current vehicles are designed to self-destruct rather than for longevity.

Well, as someone whose wife and child are alive solely because of those crumple zones, I am grateful for them. The mortality rate in MVA's is down drastically thanks to crumple zones and other innovations that dissapaite and redirect the force of an impact.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I think this is a big deal to a lot of people. Nowadays old SUVs are selling for so much money that don't have features that would make modern vehicles cost more than they need to. People are shelling out over 20k to have a lack of features and a more utilitarian feel on vehicles from the 80s. Toyota Tacomas from the 90s and 2000s going for 10-25k. Toyota pickups from the early 90s going for 7k. A lot of people want a simple vehicle that doesn't make you feel like it's driving itself for you but feels capable nonetheless.

There's a big, big market to exploit here: the market of stock manual transmissions, super utilitarian interiors, simple solid axles like true Dana 44s or Dana 60s, a back hatch that opens like a pickup truck liftgate, a diesel engine, a simple four cylinder engine, locking diffs. Honestly, I hope that the people over at Toyota, Ford, Chevy and even Jeep get it. No, I don't need a USB slot in my car. A simple cigarette outlet or 12V at most is absolutely what I want. I want to be able to buy a new car without power windows. Still need A/C, but if I had the option to go without I would.

I think that a LOT of people would buy this sort of thing. Basically, if Toyota made yet another FJ, but it was built more like a Jeep, but with that Toyota reliability reputation, a lot of people would buy it.

Mix that with modern manufacturing methods, where the advantages of computation don't go directly into the car, but simply building it and producing it for a lower cost while maintaining reliability, and you'd have a good chunk of the market covered. Put average tires on the thing when you sell it new since people will want to swap them out anyways.

I could see the ad now... You do it in a slightly cheesy 90s style(since that stuff is now hitting the beginning of its time to start coming back into style), have someone asking why they "don't make vehicles like they used to anymore" then they introduce the new Toyota FJ, the new Ford Bronco, the new whatever, but it's built in a more original manner.

Actually, the market for that type of vehicle would be miniscule at best. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know that would buy it.

 

[Clutch]

Actually, the market for that type of vehicle would be miniscule at best. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know that would buy it.

*raising hand* I would be interested....brand new 1980's Toyota Hilux...gimme a 4WD for play/backcountry camping and a 2WD that got 38 mpg for commuting. $20K for the 4WD and $15K for the 2WD. Why is it that we can't get a little pickup that gets nearly 40 mpg now-a-days?

That said, I would do a little hybrid truck if it got into the mid 30's for mpg's. What ever happened to the A-Bat concept? As long as I can get a dirt bike in the bed and it achieved decent mileage is all I care about.

 

[Regcabguy]

I would love one of those squarish Toyota and Nissan diesel suv's you see in the Mideast,central America and Africa.
Ain't gonna happen here. Sad.
I spoke to some Swiss people driving a Toyota Hilux xtracab diesel. 5-speed and a/c. Simple.
They were carrying a hardsided camper from Europe.
I said to them "another vehicle we can't get here."

 

[Clutch]

I would love one of those squarish Toyota and Nissan diesel suv's you see in the Mideast,central America and Africa.
Ain't gonna happen here. Sad.
I spoke to some Swiss people driving a Toyota Hilux xtracab diesel. 5-speed and a/c. Simple.
They were carrying a hardsided camper from Europe.
I said to them "another vehicle we can't get here."

Even the basic old work horse the LC70 is getting modernized. Auto hubs, cruise and traction control, blue tooth (who needs USB anyways!?), emissions are Euro 5, meets current safety regs, taller 5th gear for highway cruising ....AC is still an option though!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/493078/2017-toyota-landcruiser-70-series-review/

 

[Buliwyf]

The old Toyota's wouldn't pass a side impact test. That's part of the reason new Toy's, Col's, and Ranger's are a bit bloated.

 

[Clutch]

The old Toyota's wouldn't pass a side impact test. That's part of the reason new Toy's, Col's, and Ranger's are a bit bloated.

Simple fix, don't run red lights and stop signs.

 

[Buliwyf]

I know.

I'm allowed to ride a motorcycle, but we can't build little car and trucks. Why not just register them as motorcycles? Sell them with only 3 wheels attached and a ratchet strap on the axle.

 

[Clutch]

I know.

I'm allowed to ride a motorcycle, but we can't build little car and trucks. Why not just register them as motorcycles? Sell them with only 3 wheels attached and a ratchet strap on the axle.

Crazy isn't it!?

All this safety stuff is mainly because the majority of people drive like morons and refuse to pay attention. It has gotten so bad that there is a need for self driving cars.

 

[Comanche Scott]

I like the idea of self driving cars. Nothing better than riding in the back with my head stuck out the window, drooling down the side.

 

[Clutch]

I like the idea of self driving cars. Nothing better than riding in the back with my head stuck out the window, drooling down the side.

Ha ha! that needs a "*like*


( Too bad this forum isn't like Tacoma World, it seems more advanced than this one, as you can like post(s) over there...speaking of the wheels of progress )

 

[cdthiker]

I like simple, but I also like safe.
These days, the best option you are going to find in terms of what you have been talking about is most likely a toyota tacoma regular cab truck.
I think 2014 was the last year they made these. Too bad.

I paid 20 k brand new off the lot in 2012. Single cab, bench seat, five speed, 4x4 manual locks, and windows, two speed wipers and a simple radio/cd player. It has the 2.7 4 banger that has been around forever it is simple, reliable, and powerful. Sure not gonna win any races but short of towing a big *** RV, there is nothing this truck cant do.

Oh.... it has AC.

Yes, there is traction control and ABS, and airbags all around but I am OK with that. It is a small, tough, cheap, 4x4 truck that can go 95 percent of the places we see on this forum if you swap on a set of good tires.

My truck gets 19-21 MPG mixed driving in the winter, 22-24 MPG mixed driving in the summer, and 15 MPG towing 3 thousand pounds. In the summer it hauls fire wood up and down and out of the mountains of back country idaho, carries half a yard of dirt at a time for the garden, and can fit plenty of tools lumber and camping gear in the back as needed. It sees hundreds if not thousands of miles of dirt road ever summer taking me on many adventures. In the Winter time with studded tires and chains there is not a road that has stopped me yet. It pulls my Artic Cat likes its not even there on a little 4 by 8 flat bed, and provides a snug covered bed to sleep in for those early morning, or late evening at the ski mountain. Ever once and a while it pulls three sleds when buddies and I go out together.



So. In my mind, this truck is simple, it is safe, and it is cheap. It tows what I need, hauls plenty, and gets good MPG doing it.
The only thing I have had to fix in the 120 K miles I have driven it ? Serpinetine belt around 100K.


( Update) I Just got a whole new suspension the other day.... opps. But I beat that stock suspension into the ground and the only thing that suffered was my teeth rattling out.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I like simple, but I also like safe.
These days, the best option you are going to find in terms of what you have been talking about is most likely a toyota tacoma regular cab truck.
I think 2014 was the last year they made these. Too bad.

I paid 20 k brand new off the lot in 2012. Single cab, bench seat, five speed, 4x4 manual locks, and windows, two speed wipers and a simple radio/cd player. It has the 2.7 4 banger that has been around forever it is simple, reliable, and powerful. Sure not gonna win any races but short of towing a big *** RV, there is nothing this truck cant do.

Oh.... it has AC.

Yes, there is traction control and ABS, and airbags all around but I am OK with that. It is a small, tough, cheap, 4x4 truck that can go 95 percent of the places we see on this forum if you swap on a set of good tires.

My truck gets 19-21 MPG mixed driving in the winter, 22-24 MPG mixed driving in the summer, and 15 MPG towing 3 thousand pounds. In the summer it hauls fire wood up and down and out of the mountains of back country idaho, carries half a yard of dirt at a time for the garden, and can fit plenty of tools lumber and camping gear in the back as needed. It sees hundreds if not thousands of miles of dirt road ever summer taking me on many adventures. In the Winter time with studded tires and chains there is not a road that has stopped me yet. It pulls my Artic Cat likes its not even there on a little 4 by 8 flat bed, and provides a snug covered bed to sleep in for those early morning, or late evening at the ski mountain. Ever once and a while it pulls three sleds when buddies and I go out together.



So. In my mind, this truck is simple, it is safe, and it is cheap. It tows what I need, hauls plenty, and gets good MPG doing it.
The only thing I have had to fix in the 120 K miles I have driven it ? Serpinetine belt around 100K.


( Update) I Just got a whole new suspension the other day.... opps. But I beat that stock suspension into the ground and the only thing that suffered was my teeth rattling out.

The big 3 make simple trucks too. You know the ones no one buys except fleets, yet everyone says they want one.

 

[Clutch]

The big 3 make simple trucks too. You know the ones no one buys except fleets, yet everyone says they want one.

Are they really all that simple though? About the only thing on a base model 1/2 tons, is that you can get manual crank windows, everything else is power this or that..or automatic. They all have the same running gear. Do think on the F250/350's you can still get manual hubs.

So....the only real difference from the base and upper trim models is the interior materials get nicer as you go up the line, and some more computer app conveniences.

Unlike cdthiker's Tacoma, the new base SR Tacoma doesn't even come with a manual trans anymore. Power everything is now standard, which has driven up the price. Be real hard pressed to get it OTD for under $30K. Which is a lot for a "basic" truck. Don't have the option to get a true "stripper"...and I don't mean a pole dancer.