Will Automakers Get the Market and Make Simple Vehicles Again?

Rachmaninoff

Observer
I think this is a big deal to a lot of people. Nowadays old SUVs are selling for so much money that don't have features that would make modern vehicles cost more than they need to. People are shelling out over 20k to have a lack of features and a more utilitarian feel on vehicles from the 80s. Toyota Tacomas from the 90s and 2000s going for 10-25k. Toyota pickups from the early 90s going for 7k. A lot of people want a simple vehicle that doesn't make you feel like it's driving itself for you but feels capable nonetheless.

There's a big, big market to exploit here: the market of stock manual transmissions, super utilitarian interiors, simple solid axles like true Dana 44s or Dana 60s, a back hatch that opens like a pickup truck liftgate, a diesel engine, a simple four cylinder engine, locking diffs. Honestly, I hope that the people over at Toyota, Ford, Chevy and even Jeep get it. No, I don't need a USB slot in my car. A simple cigarette outlet or 12V at most is absolutely what I want. I want to be able to buy a new car without power windows. Still need A/C, but if I had the option to go without I would.

I think that a LOT of people would buy this sort of thing. Basically, if Toyota made yet another FJ, but it was built more like a Jeep, but with that Toyota reliability reputation, a lot of people would buy it.

Mix that with modern manufacturing methods, where the advantages of computation don't go directly into the car, but simply building it and producing it for a lower cost while maintaining reliability, and you'd have a good chunk of the market covered. Put average tires on the thing when you sell it new since people will want to swap them out anyways.

I could see the ad now... You do it in a slightly cheesy 90s style(since that stuff is now hitting the beginning of its time to start coming back into style), have someone asking why they "don't make vehicles like they used to anymore" then they introduce the new Toyota FJ, the new Ford Bronco, the new whatever, but it's built in a more original manner.
 
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chet6.7

Explorer
Vehicles are not going to get less complicated or less expensive,safety,MPG and emissions standards will see to that.I suspect meeting those standards is a big part of the price.Having to buy option packages to get the one option a buyer wants is profitable for manufactures,they won't change that.It's like cable TV,150 channels of garbage to get a few watchable channels,the option packages are similar.It seems a lot of buyers want every doodad that can be installed,in dash espresso machines are coming soon.:)
 

Clutch

<---Pass
With the ever tightening restrictions, it will never go back.

Believe EV's (while not exactly non-complicated) are going to the new version of "simple", a lot less to fuss with compared to petroleum vehicle. No air cleaners, no oil to change, no spark/glow plugs, no fuel filters and pumps, rings to seize, rods to thrown through a block, etc, etc...

Maybe some tranny & differential fluid to change every 30-40K but that is about it.

Perhaps they'll make the batteries an easy swap for the Average Joe to do when then fail in 10 years time. But doubtful, in ten years there will be a much better version that comes along, and send the old one to the recyclers.

Speaking of older vehicles...could be that I am getting older,but an electric motor swap sounds more appealing than a diesel swap...now only if the battery tech vastly improves.

https://electrek.co/2016/09/03/off-...l-electric-truck-using-nissan-leaf-batteries/

2016-08-23_01-12-11-640x427.jpg
 
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Kevin108

Explorer
With all the government-mandated crumple zones and other safety features, current vehicles are designed to self-destruct rather than for longevity.
 

Rachmaninoff

Observer
Lol. Kinda blows.

I suppose all the stuff with emissions and regulations makes sense for that. Maybe when EVs offer superior economics, they'll peel back a lot of regulations since it would be like regulating a tractor in the middle of the countryside when no one else is around: basically pointless. So, when 90-95% of vehicles are EV, the regulations for gas can improve again.

Or, maybe EVs will just become flatly superior in all respects.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Don't really have to buy new either. What is a new truck these days...$35K++.

Could just buy an old whatever, and take that $35K and get in nearly new condition yourself. Which if you're into simple vehicles, you should be able to do all that work yourself.

I brought up EV's sine I am kinda considering one for commuting. Get one of those old Toyota 2WD 5 lugger regular cabs. Just need to get 60 mile range out of it round trip. Maybe toss a generator in the bed for a "just in case" backup. Probably never happen...just one of those "what if" ideas I have rolling around in my head.
 
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Clutch

<---Pass
Put a direct drive motor on each wheel, and you don't need a trans or diffs at all...

Even better!

Lol. Kinda blows.

I suppose all the stuff with emissions and regulations makes sense for that. Maybe when EVs offer superior economics, they'll peel back a lot of regulations since it would be like regulating a tractor in the middle of the countryside when no one else is around: basically pointless. So, when 90-95% of vehicles are EV, the regulations for gas can improve again.

Or, maybe EVs will just become flatly superior in all respects.


yeah, the never ending march of the wheels of progress...some of it it is good, some of it isn't...the world is getting more and more complex.

We live basically ********** dab in the middle of commercial AG here in Idaho...all the new farm equipment has emissions on it. I thought they were immune to it, but apparently not the case anymore.
 
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kdeleon

Observer
I followed the Jeep JL release and the wrangler folks get it, you cant deny that. Even then i was surprised to learn that majority of the changes from the JK was to meet plenty of gov regulations. I can only guess how tough of a job it is to deliver sonethibg the consumer wants yet still satisfy the govt.

Can other manufacturers do it? I doubt toyota would, just cant see it. but i can see ford trying with the bronco.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

wirenut

Adventurer
So many of the supposed "extras" on vehicles are actually government requirements. Traction control, tire pressure monitoring, anti-lock brakes, air bags, seat belts, emissions controls, and who knows what else are all required now. It's sad how we've let the government exert so much control.
 

Paddler Ed

Adventurer
Yes there will be simple vehicles, but it won't be the Big 3 or from the Japanese and European big players.

Renault have Dacia to fill that role, although they have moved up scale a bit since they started in the mid 2000's - I suspect we'll see some brands running in developing markets only, and then possibly spreading over into the 'Western' markets.

Mahindra have just relaunched the Pik Up which is still fairly basic - although IFS rather than live axles.

Higher up, there's no money to be made in a pov pack vehicle when compared to the luxo spec that has the bells and whistles fitted (which people will pay $$/££/€€ for) as they make more from the luxo spec. Also as the manufacturers have shifted up market (Toyota, Land Rover etc have all done this) there leaves a gap at the bottom of the market for a "new" manufacturer to enter.
 

Wilbah

Adventurer
A stripped down taco extended cab 4x4 is $27k, bit you prob have to order it special as dealers won't likely stock then that way. I think you can get stripped versions of most anything, its just jumping through the hoops to order one and wait to get it. And most people feel that if they're already spending $27k, the extra few $K to get power this and that or other bells and whistles are worthwhile.

I remember a friend of mine who's Dad ordered a stripped down Chevy Chevette. Stripped meant no back seat or glove compartment door. Ha. Tossed a sleeping bag in the bag and we'd roll around on the metal pan back there driving around. That wouldn't fly in today's day and age for sure. LOL
 

docwatson

Adventurer
I don't think the market for simple vehicles is worth automakers designing vehicles for it. There are certainly people interested, but for every "simple car" buyer there 30 "loaded car" buyers. Sure there are more and more government mandated features but the majority of American car buyers want new features and connectivity so I can upload my instagram photos without ever being uncomfortable.

Solid axles are disappearing because less people use there vehicles for terrain that actually NEEDS solid axles and ride comfort, as kmcintyre pointed out, is prioritized over utility.
 

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