Need Advice for 2015 Tacoma Suspension System

[phsycle]

This thread is useful for me as well. I've a Tacoma trd offroad on order ( despite my handle ) and will likely increase the tire size to 32” max. I know nothing about suspensions and the plethora of choices is confusing to say the least. Advice on Leaving truck as stock as possible resonates, as does ensuring it's setup to handle worse than you desire to throw at it so that if you end up in hairy stuff you can get out. Is all this possible without sacrificing onroad characteristics? I've no desire for rock crawling but desire to explore the mountains of the west. There is a discussion at tacomaworld on the 2015 TRD Pro suspension that's on sale now, but reviews indicate it's a harsh ride, albeit effective off-road.

My opinion is, all this talk of prepping for the worst case scenario is a never-ending rabbit hole. I have a late gen Tacoma which is stock and will stay mostly that way. When the tires go, I'll be going 32” aka 265/75/16 All-Terrain. No lift unless I get a shell. Then I'll do a add a leaf. That should be good. The stock truck can go on a lot of trails.

I have some recovery gear. The only other mod I'll do is a Warn hidden winch mount for the recovery points and a winch for self-rescue. That's it. Like you, I don't want to compromise on-road ride or the range/MPG. Because that's where the truck will spend 80% of its mileage.

Look at these crazy OZ folks. The guy in the DMax is on stock 31” tires. When in doubt, just winch up!

[video]https://youtu.be/x4V_eO4Sjsg[/video]

 

[ecgreen]

Here is how I built my rig (and continue to do so). Go out and explore, wheel or do whatever it is you do. Come back home and see what you scrapped, broke or otherwise had a PITA time with. After that, change things as needed. Let the trail tell you what you need. I live in New Hampshire and the trails told me if I don't armor the snot out of my truck I would be walking some day lol

 

[ecgreen]

My opinion is, all this talk of prepping for the worst case scenario is a never-ending rabbit hole. I have a late gen Tacoma which is stock and will stay mostly that way. When the tires go, I'll be going 32” aka 265/75/16 All-Terrain. No lift unless I get a shell. Then I'll do a add a leaf. That should be good. The stock truck can go on a lot of trails.

I have some recovery gear. The only other mod I'll do is a Warn hidden winch mount for the recovery points and a winch for self-rescue. That's it. Like you, I don't want to compromise on-road ride or the range/MPG. Because that's where the truck will spend 80% of its mileage.

Look at these crazy OZ folks. The guy in the DMax is on stock 31” tires. When in doubt, just winch up!

[video]https://youtu.be/x4V_eO4Sjsg[/video]

That dude can wheel. Watch him all the time

 

[DaveInDenver]

will likely increase the tire size to 32” max. I know nothing about suspensions and the plethora of choices is confusing to say the least. Advice on Leaving truck as stock as possible resonates, as does ensuring it's setup to handle worse than you desire to throw at it so that if you end up in hairy stuff you can get out. Is all this possible without sacrificing onroad characteristics?

As as has been mentioned, a lift doesn't give you the ability to fit larger tires unless you also lower bump stops (which to me defeats the purpose) or never go off road. If a tire doesn't clear on a stock suspension it's not going to with lift. The reason you lift IMO is for increasing suspension travel (my FOX is called "mid" travel meaning it has about an inch more travel than stock), some slight increase in under truck clearance and to gain space around the suspension, perhaps for tire chains.

I'm running 235/85R16 tires on factory TRD alloy rims, so a slightly larger than 32" tire and very skinny (9.25" on my 7" rims). Zero rubbing and with my Camburg upper arms I can run chains in front. I do plan on bumping to a 255/85R16 next time, though, which will eliminate the ability to do that. But you can run 235/85R16 on a stock truck, too.

My $0.02 is skid plates and sliders are what you install for the oh-crap moments on trails. Whether you run 31" or 33" and lift or not isn't really going to make that much difference but even the most built-up truck eventually drags a skid plate or slider. Yeah, it all adds up, suspension, tires, armor, etc. to make a truck capable overall. I would do all I could to fit the largest tire and lift practical if you want to run the Rubicon, but strictly speaking a truck on 31" tires is going to make it. They'll just drag sliders and skids more often.

But to me, running an aggressive stock or nearly stock tire, enough lift to balance payload and keep you in the middle of the travel window on trails is what you're after. I set my suspension for about 2" of lift so I didn't lose much up travel while increasing down quite a bit. Basically a truck set up with mid travel coil overs and lower profile upper arms will let the IFS cycle through the maximum range of the CV axles.

 

[downhill]

This thread is useful for me as well. I've a Tacoma trd offroad on order ( despite my handle ) and will likely increase the tire size to 32” max. I know nothing about suspensions and the plethora of choices is confusing to say the least. Advice on Leaving truck as stock as possible resonates, as does ensuring it's setup to handle worse than you desire to throw at it so that if you end up in hairy stuff you can get out. Is all this possible without sacrificing onroad characteristics? I've no desire for rock crawling but desire to explore the mountains of the west. There is a discussion at tacomaworld on the 2015 TRD Pro suspension that's on sale now, but reviews indicate it's a harsh ride, albeit effective off-road.

The onroad ride and handling of my Fox coilovers is far better than stock IMO. My ride is a little rougher simply because I run E rated ties. If I didn't live where rocks were a fact of life, I might run C or Ds. I will say one thing though. With high profile tires like the 255/85-16, the stiffer sidewall gives much better steering precision and tracking.

The 235/85-16 was mentioned. I ran those for years before I went to the 255s. For a stock replacement, I found them to be an awesome tire!

 

[sertguy]

That is a question only you can answer. If indeed you occasionally do a "mini rubicon" type trail, then the items discussed are not overkill. If you are willing to turn around when such things present themselves, then you will need less. I try to build for the unexpected and usually drive far below the trucks actual capability. It's actually rare for me to be in four wheel drive. I have 2 Lo capability.

A couple of weeks ago I was out cruising the back trails, and saw a little dotted line on the map that looked too good to pass up. By the time I realized that the trail was going to be a very long and difficult ordeal, I was basically too far in to turn back. I forged ahead and the truck got me through because I had a lot of yet untapped capability.

I try to never knowingly choose a trail above 80% of my vehicle's ability. That leaves me a bit if I miscalculate. Level one for me is 2lo, which is most of what I do. Level two is 4lo. Level three is 4lo +rear locker. Level five is 4lo + front and rear locker. Level six is everything plus the winch cable out.

When I am traveling alone, Level five and six are always in reserve. If there are others who can assist in the event of trouble, I might go farther. I got tired of walking out many years ago.

We all live within some limits because every vehicle or driver has one. What you have to do is define what YOUR limits and needs are. Nobody here can help with that.

I agree, and the "never ending rabbit hole" is a good point. I did forget to mention that I'm looking for a lot smoother ride on the forest service roads as well.

Thanks for all the good info. I pretty sure I'll go with the 095 Darkar pack in the back.

I think I'll go with the Kings front and rear shocks. Just not sure if I should go with the reservoirs and UCA?


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[downhill]

I agree, and the "never ending rabbit hole" is a good point. I did forget to mention that I'm looking for a lot smoother ride on the forest service roads as well.

Thanks for all the good info. I pretty sure I'll go with the 095 Darkar pack in the back.

I think I'll go with the Kings front and rear shocks. Just not sure if I should go with the reservoirs and UCA?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You really cannot go wrong with Kings. The reservoirs provide additional fluid to handle heat build up from prolonged runs down bumpy roads at moderate to high speeds. They were developed for desert racers. I spend hours running such roads in hot weather, so I got reservoirs. Sometimes I drive too fast :smiley_drive:. If you tend to drive slow, smoother roads, and your trips are generally shorter, then you really don't need them. Most people have them because they look cool :sombrero:

Pay attention to the spring rate you use too. Many people use 700lb/in springs with an aftermarket bumper and winch. I have an ARB bumper with a fairly light winch. I have found the 650lb/in spring to offer much better compliance. 600s gave me a rough ride because they bottomed too often, and required a lot of preload. 700s rarely ever bottomed, and were less compliant over washboard. The 650's let the suspension work over it's full range, which gives a smoother ride. That also translates to better control on sketchy road surfaces. That has been my experience anyway. I believe King gives you a choice?? Not sure about that. Fox ships only 600 pound springs and people are forever swapping them.

One last recommendation that costs little, and finishes the package well, is a set of Wheelers Offroad bumpstops. When you do occasionally tap the bumps, these give a much softer landing than the hard little stock knots that are under there.

 

[Adventurous]

You can purchase Kings with either 650 lb springs or 700 lb springs with no upcharge. I'm not sure if they come valved any differently however if you decide to swap springs down the road.

And I'll second the Superbumps for the front. Those stock bump stops are a bit jarring, the Superbumps are much more comfortable.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I agree, and the "never ending rabbit hole" is a good point. I did forget to mention that I'm looking for a lot smoother ride on the forest service roads as well.

Thanks for all the good info. I pretty sure I'll go with the 095 Darkar pack in the back.

I think I'll go with the Kings front and rear shocks. Just not sure if I should go with the reservoirs and UCA?

My feeling is 2.5" bodies don't need remote reservoirs for normal people. With a 2.0" body it could be a benefit. I've never overheated my front shocks (2.5" FOX) but have gotten my rears (2.0) pretty warm. They didn't fail though and they have aluminum bodies so I'm not super concerned. The front shocks are usually steel bodies, which is more durable (e.g. so the threads don't strip since the bodies are holding one of the coil spring perches in place) but worse about dissipating heat.

It's a diminishing return thing, the step from stock to OME or Bilstein gets you a lot of improvement for your money. The next step to King/FOX/Icon/ADS/etc is a lot more money for more marginal increase. The remote reservoirs are even more money for less improvement for most of us. Remote reservoir shocks are IMHO a status symbol often, just proving your 4WD credibility more than actually meeting a need.

If you know *why* shocks have remote reservoirs and often find your current setup insufficient, then you may need them. So YMMV but I chose to save my money.

That said I do plan on upgrading my rear shocks to 2.0 FOX with DSC adjusters in remote reservoirs. First, because of the very infrequent time or two they have gotten warm but more so I can change the damping between daily lighter load and heavier camping. My truck rides great full but is underdamped driving around normally.

UCA are optional for OME and 2.0 shocks but mandatory with 2.5" shocks since the stock UCA will hit the coil at droop otherwise. New UCA with built-in additional caster (usually a few degrees) helps with alignment after a lift, so any time you go above about 2" of lift they are good to have, though. I run Camberg arms that use the OE-style ball joints (they are actually Moog brand) and have no complaints.

 

[Adventurous]

My feeling is 2.5" bodies don't need remote reservoirs for normal people. With a 2.0" body it could be a benefit. I've never overheated my front shocks (2.5" FOX) but have gotten my rears (2.0) pretty warm. They didn't fail though and they have aluminum bodies so I'm not super concerned. The front shocks are usually steel bodies, which is more durable (e.g. so the threads don't strip since the bodies are holding one of the coil spring perches in place) but worse about dissipating heat.

It's a diminishing return thing, the step from stock to OME or Bilstein gets you a lot of improvement for your money. The next step to King/FOX/Icon/ADS/etc is a lot more money for more marginal increase. The remote reservoirs are even more money for less improvement for most of us. Remote reservoir shocks are IMHO a status symbol often, just proving your 4WD credibility more than actually meeting a need.

If you know *why* shocks have remote reservoirs and often find your current setup insufficient, then you may need them. So YMMV but I chose to save my money.

That said I do plan on upgrading my rear shocks to 2.0 FOX with DSC adjusters in remote reservoirs. First, because of the very infrequent time or two they have gotten warm but more so I can change the damping between daily lighter load and heavier camping. My truck rides great full but is underdamped driving around normally.

UCA are optional for OME and 2.0 shocks but mandatory with 2.5" shocks since the stock UCA will hit the coil at droop otherwise. New UCA with built-in additional caster (usually a few degrees) helps with alignment after a lift, so any time you go above about 2" of lift they are good to have, though. I run Camberg arms that use the OE-style ball joints (they are actually Moog brand) and have no complaints.

Funny you say that, I found the jump from OME -> ICON to be just as great as the jump from OEM -> OME. ICON -> King was more incremental, yet still noticeably better.

But agreed on the remote reservoirs. Most won't be able to take advantage of the additional oil volume (other than perhaps not needing to be serviced as often), but they are the only way to get compression adjusters if your truck serves multiple purposes. They do look pretty cool though :sombrero:

 

[DaveInDenver]

Funny you say that, I found the jump from OME -> ICON to be just as great as the jump from OEM -> OME. ICON -> King was more incremental, yet still noticeably better.

King are about the best there is, but Icon, FOX, OME BP51, etc. can more or less give as good a ride. The difference in how they perform comes down to tuning and all things being equal it's going to be hard to tell them apart. If I was to guess the difference in progressive vs. digressive tuning is why people love or hate the Icon ride. Now what might separate them is quality and King is pretty friggin' good.

But agreed on the remote reservoirs. Most won't be able to take advantage of the additional oil volume (other than perhaps not needing to be serviced as often), but they are the only way to get compression adjusters if your truck serves multiple purposes. They do look pretty cool though :sombrero:

All true, more volume means less frequent servicing for sure. And a full King kit sure does look tits...

 

[sertguy]

You really cannot go wrong with Kings. The reservoirs provide additional fluid to handle heat build up from prolonged runs down bumpy roads at moderate to high speeds. They were developed for desert racers. I spend hours running such roads in hot weather, so I got reservoirs. Sometimes I drive too fast :smiley_drive:. If you tend to drive slow, smoother roads, and your trips are generally shorter, then you really don't need them. Most people have them because they look cool :sombrero:

Pay attention to the spring rate you use too. Many people use 700lb/in springs with an aftermarket bumper and winch. I have an ARB bumper with a fairly light winch. I have found the 650lb/in spring to offer much better compliance. 600s gave me a rough ride because they bottomed too often, and required a lot of preload. 700s rarely ever bottomed, and were less compliant over washboard. The 650's let the suspension work over it's full range, which gives a smoother ride. That also translates to better control on sketchy road surfaces. That has been my experience anyway. I believe King gives you a choice?? Not sure about that. Fox ships only 600 pound springs and people are forever swapping them.

One last recommendation that costs little, and finishes the package well, is a set of Wheelers Offroad bumpstops. When you do occasionally tap the bumps, these give a much softer landing than the hard little stock knots that are under there.

Thx. Sounds like the 650's will be the best fit for my needs. I'll look into the bump stops. As a newbie I never even thought of that.


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[sertguy]

My feeling is 2.5" bodies don't need remote reservoirs for normal people. With a 2.0" body it could be a benefit. I've never overheated my front shocks (2.5" FOX) but have gotten my rears (2.0) pretty warm. They didn't fail though and they have aluminum bodies so I'm not super concerned. The front shocks are usually steel bodies, which is more durable (e.g. so the threads don't strip since the bodies are holding one of the coil spring perches in place) but worse about dissipating heat.

It's a diminishing return thing, the step from stock to OME or Bilstein gets you a lot of improvement for your money. The next step to King/FOX/Icon/ADS/etc is a lot more money for more marginal increase. The remote reservoirs are even more money for less improvement for most of us. Remote reservoir shocks are IMHO a status symbol often, just proving your 4WD credibility more than actually meeting a need.

If you know *why* shocks have remote reservoirs and often find your current setup insufficient, then you may need them. So YMMV but I chose to save my money.

That said I do plan on upgrading my rear shocks to 2.0 FOX with DSC adjusters in remote reservoirs. First, because of the very infrequent time or two they have gotten warm but more so I can change the damping between daily lighter load and heavier camping. My truck rides great full but is underdamped driving around normally.

UCA are optional for OME and 2.0 shocks but mandatory with 2.5" shocks since the stock UCA will hit the coil at droop otherwise. New UCA with built-in additional caster (usually a few degrees) helps with alignment after a lift, so any time you go above about 2" of lift they are good to have, though. I run Camberg arms that use the OE-style ball joints (they are actually Moog brand) and have no complaints.

Thx, good info. You mentioned you have got your rear shocks pretty warm but they didn't fail. Does it damage the shock If I occasionally over heat them from time to time?


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[Adventurous]

Thx, good info. You mentioned you have got your rear shocks pretty warm but they didn't fail. Does it damage the shock If I occasionally over heat them from time to time?


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Depends on what you mean by damage. If it gets too warm the oil loses viscosity, breaks down, you'll lose damping and maybe blow out the seals. Those can all be fixed with a rebuild, so you probably wouldn't permanently damage them, but I wouldn't want make a habit of it.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Thx, good info. You mentioned you have got your rear shocks pretty warm but they didn't fail. Does it damage the shock If I occasionally over heat them from time to time?

Over heating them isn't good. I've actually cooked OME shocks and that ruined them. All shocks can get warm but that's not overheating. It's like engine or transmission fluid, warm is typical and fine, too hot is bad. With the high end shocks you can rebuild them and in fact you *must* rebuild them periodically. AFAIK the JM92 shock oil FOX uses is good to 400F, so you can get them pretty warm before damage is possible. I figure warm to the touch is normal. Using my calibrated "warm to touch" scale I find about 135F about the warmest I can hold without discomfort or pulling my hand away.