Roof design examples and comment

Harald Hansen

Explorer
haven said:
And here is a European design (I don't remember which company
makes this!) When the roof is lowered it covers the windows for
security.

toyota79popup.jpg

It's from Finck Campingsysteme in Germany.

Some more of their work in this thread.
 

ThomD

Explorer
My personal favorite:

P6150439.jpg


I value being able to use the head without any setup; not screaming "I'm an RV", unless the roof is up.

It is pretty narrow and nimble, so I could get in and out of parking lots. This particular one isn't off road oriented of course.
 

James86004

Expedition Leader
As always, it depends on what you want to do with it. My wife & I drool over campers of various sizes. It would be nice to have one of each design and try them all out for a while.

Practically, the soft sides are the way to go for us. If it is really windy or cold or noisy one night, we are going to move. We have spent some pretty cold nights in the Dormobile, well below freezing, but we have a small heater and really good sleeping bags. With the side lift on the Dormobile, you can stand full height anywhere inside. The Land Rover is small enough to get to the places we want to go - I don't think anything much bigger would be able to handle about 1/4 of the trips we do. Our longest trip has been for 10 days at once now, and were reluctant to go home. Of course the weather was perfect. If we were going someplace where the weather is less predictable and we were going to be gone for months, well, the hard sided full height ones start looking better and better.
 

Lynn

Expedition Leader
ntsqd said:
Having seen pictures of what a western Sierras black bear can do to a car when in search of food, I think even the hard walls of a Unicat etc. impart a very false sense of security.

Sometimes a false sense of security is important. :) What my wife doesn't know...

Really, hard walls at least allow more time to wake up and formulate a response. Plus would stop smaller critters like packrats, monkeys, lions?, etc.
 

ThomD

Explorer
ntsqd said:
Having seen pictures of what a western Sierras black bear can do to a car when in search of food, I think even the hard walls of a Unicat etc. impart a very false sense of security.

And yet, there are places where the only requirement is to keep your food in a hard sided vehicle. I think the degree of caution needed depends a lot on where you are and how bad their bear problem is.

This is one of the reasons that we are currently leaning toward a van (for head/shower/sleeping/bike storage) and an adv trailer (for cooking/food and water storage). That would give us a very flexible setup. We would never be sleeping near the food.
 

jagular7

Adventurer
Great thread and a lot to consider and think about.

I really think the configuration of a camper is really dependent on factors for a camperee(s), geometrics for vehicle/trailer frame, floor layout, accessibility, and weight. You really don't want a camper where you can use it with general vehicles pulling or hauling it. Yah, those larger medium size vehicles can pull their own weight and then some, but they are not the mass campers. They are more of a specialty vehicle.
Of course, the biggest concern is weight. More weight is always a problem. Lighter the better.
Geometric configuration: framing, wall thickness, materials, floor layout along with cabinet layout, sleeping, sitting and cooking quarters/areas, bathroom or not, water tanks or not, accessibility when enroute and when camping, weather concerns when setup and take down, animal intrusion of any kind, openess of the floor plan to be like home(?) (many Americans like the condo setup LOL) and bad weather use conditions (stay inside and play cards, watch tv/video, etc).

Many 'square' campers don't use all the volume space in the camper. Up high and below along the walls are usually an empty space, thus makes the camper interior feel larger and spacious.

Many camper designs include kitchen areas inside. Usually, this is unused by the weekend/3-dayer camper.

Mainly, the type and level of camperee is what really distinguishes the camper design. Mfrs design to fit a market which tells them about the type and level of camperee. Appealing a product to meet those needs can be easy enough as well as difficult.

Me as a camperee
I camp when I Jeep. Usually I have my 2 different sex kids with me. They are old enough now that I require 2 or 3 separate sleeping areas. I would pull the camper with my Jeep Wrangler TJ which is a basic 4cyl/auto. So light weight is what I require. Most of the time I camp a weekend/3-4 day. So anything beyond that is special. I rather cook outside and not inside. In really bad weather, we'll eat at a restaraunt. Most of the time, getting back to camp after wheeling all day, who really wants to 'cook' a meal. Simple and easy food; besides, it's usually dark in the winter when we get back. My storage location requires a maximum width of 66", this gives me 6" each side for space. I have 78" between gate posts.
I've tried several commercial small pop-up campers (haven't tried the Neon yet), but due to other considerations, didn't work out. Same for a recent flip-open top slide in camper on a trailer frame.
My next potential solution is an expandable camper with a floor plan that provides access to bedding when open or closed and storage through an entry door or side access doors. Rear entry is appealing with center or offset doorway. Door would open and have access to cabinets/storage. Above the cabinets could be a sleep area that would be wider with an offset door and ~ 70" long. The floor walk space would lead to a queen size bed with under and side storage. I'd prefer a flip-pac style roof to partial angled open for a standup near the door (hard flip up sides) and flip open all the way for another sleep area with canvas top. The queen side storage can be a ladder to the vaulted sleep area. Gaining that much interior volume room would only be necessary if both kids came. (They do have other weekend activities that conflict.) Cooking can be a kitchen swing out like those of Australian campers or a separate setup like I have now with a table, popup weather cover and kitchen box. Overall height would at least 5' but under 6' closed, but with good ground clearance to take off the beaten path behind the Jeep (14-15" tires). Width near 5.5 feet (66"). Length dependent on storage and floor layout, but guessing 11' or 12'. Weight is dependant on side wall, floor, and cabinet materials, but estimating under 1000#s. Framing is another dependant of weight. If I can integrate enough between camper floor/walls and the trailer frame, the frame can be a structural part of the camper.

The Compact camper (and Compact II) are an all fiberglass camper with a table/queen bed up front, rear side cabinets, pop-up center top, and rear entry. It's exterior dimensions are 10' long, 70" wide, and over 7' tall closed. With proper tires, it could be placed into a normal garage for storage.
9cb6_3.jpg

trailerhome2.jpg

Take this layout, make it a little smaller width and height wise, maybe a little longer, then add this as a pop-up roof
compact2-roof-anim.gif

They no longer make the Compact camper (70-73ish), but Weiscraft's Little Joe is something similar and little smaller.
hmlittlejoe.png
joe2.jpg



Take this camper, though small, its overall height is nearly the same as the truck. I would give it some more width.
foldupcamper3a.jpg

It also has a tilt up setup.
foldupcamper3f.jpg

Interior
foldupcamper3d.jpg
foldupcamper3e.jpg
 
Last edited:

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
whatcharterboat said:
Oh and Thom, great idea about optional insulation for the soft sides on the pop top. Want a job?

John
Thanks John!
I'd be all over such a job, except that the commute is going to be a real bugger. :)

I wasn't really thinking in specific terms about Black Bears, more that a animal of reasonable size and determined to get in won't be stopped by hard walls. So the 'security' of a hard wall is more mental than actual, and I do not discount the value of that but do try to recognize it for what it is.

One of the things that I've noted in the past is that most of the Unicat & similar roofs tend to either be flat or at least look to be flat. Seems to me that while ideal for maximizing space inside for a given roof height that I'd want one with some crown to it. Thinking on it, it's rare to see a roof with crown in it. Those that have this feature tend to be the cheaper American RV's. Is my observation off?
 

Mickldo

Adventurer
ntsqd said:
Thanks John!
I'd be all over such a job, except that the commute is going to be a real bugger. :)

I wasn't really thinking in specific terms about Black Bears, more that a animal of reasonable size and determined to get in won't be stopped by hard walls. So the 'security' of a hard wall is more mental than actual, and I do not discount the value of that but do try to recognize it for what it is.

One of the things that I've noted in the past is that most of the Unicat & similar roofs tend to either be flat or at least look to be flat. Seems to me that while ideal for maximizing space inside for a given roof height that I'd want one with some crown to it. Thinking on it, it's rare to see a roof with crown in it. Those that have this feature tend to be the cheaper American RV's. Is my observation off?

I am thinking about a bit of a crown in the roof too. In the floor plan I am thinking of most of the human traffic will be down the centre line of the vehicle. Rain will flow off the roof a bit easier rather than puddling and finding possible leak points.
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Pop your top

Thom, By “crown”, I presume you mean a ridge or raised section? While I don't think it's really necessary to have a crown in terms of water runoff,(how often is the vehicle roof perfectly level anyway?) sure it will help to prevent water pooling but the best benefit of a "crown” is surely the extra strength it provides (say if you have to go up on the roof).

Almost all road based RV/ motorhomes here are built from flat composite panel which is easy to fabricate but should be reinforced in critical areas. The rule with composite construction is that more shape/grooves/ridges/etc you strategically incorporate into a panel the stronger it will be. So yeah you're right. Even adding a ridge down the centre will be a good thing to do as far as strength goes but may not be easy to do and that's more the reason that it's not so common.

This has been a great thread. I really haven't worked on many pop-tops before. When I worked for an off road caravan manufacturer some years back, we only did 2 and that was only because the owners wanted to store the vans in their garage at home when not in use. Now that we are developing our own “production” expedition pop top I’m trying to gain as much info as I can. We did one at Warrior on an FG not so long ago that was quite successful. It was a soft sided type with a one piece roof that was raised AND lowered by 4 double activating air-rams, so that you just flicked a valve and the roof lifted or pulled down hard. As long as everything is adjusted correctly (via a regulator) you don’t really have to touch it during setup. A bungi cord takes care of the sides as the roof comes down.

There was enough room to get around with the roof down and if it was really cold or windy you could drop the roof with the flick of the valve and go to sleep as snug as a bug in a rug. We cut the back out of the cab for easy access as we do with our normal motorhomes and I don’t think we could have done this with a hard sided top as it would have intersected the sock between the cab and the body.

As for the shower/toilet cubicle, the top half of the walls were attached to the roof and a curtain was used there instead of a door. Also there was overhead lockers attached to the ceiling and PhotoVoltaic Laminates on the roof. The best thing about soft sided pop tops is the ventilation that is possible. If you have a small package like this you are hardly going to have it air conditioned so this is really important especially here living on the driest continent.

Protection from bears are another story. Actually is there any chance of posting those pics of what a bear can do to a camper when looking for food????? I know we have most of the top 10 deadliest snakes and some seriously deadly spiders and other nasties but nothing like big cats and bears. Oh except for crocs but I couldn’t see one of them getting into anything more complicated than a tent. BTW a guy was taken by a big croc today in Cooktown.

Hey. Just thought of something. A good case for the “crown in the roof”. We have built a few 20 seat 4wd buses for the Aboriginal communities up on Cape York. They used to run Land Cruisers but they wanted to upgrade to something bigger. 2 of us flew up to Cairns to check on a suspicious “roof leak???” The dealer in Cairns told us that they used to drive the bus to down to the creek to go fishing. OK. We didn’t realize this meant parking next to the creek and the entire crew standing on the roof to keep safe from the crocs while they fished. You can imagine what the old Land Cruiser roofs looked like after a few fishing trips.

There is still so many things that could be talked about here. Roof racks, weight loadings, solar panel attachments, penetrations, access ladders, lifting mechanisms for pop tops, etc, etc,

Thanks Chip. Again, great thread.

Some pics of a pop top interior showing the interior shower/ toilet and one of the bigger motorhomes. Roof > body follows the cab profile, rounded corners everywhere, protection from tree branches for awnings and satellite dish, PVL’s, ladder access, light weight rack for kayaks,canoes etc, fan/hatches 40mm foam insulation, white colour, low CoG, dual awnings, integrated air inlet

ry%3D315


Arghh!! Could someone please recommend a photo sharing site other that Picassa or Shutterfly. Pics will have too wait.
 

ThomD

Explorer
I could not find any bear photos that were impressive, but the Park Service has this nice video:

Bear and food in Yoesmite

We were up there a couple of years ago, taking sunrise photos. A bear wondered by and my wife followed it into the parking lot (at a safe distance). It went right to a car and put its paws on a door looking for food. My wife scared it off by throwing some rocks near (not at) it. I would have taken some good photos, but she doesn't think like that. Turns out the morons who owned the car had a banana on the seat and the window open an inch. If my wife had not been there, the bear would have been snacking. And that's a fine up to $5,000.

My wife was pretty cool around the bear until she realized that there were two cubs somewhere behind her and mama was in front of her. She beat a hasty retreat at that point.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
Yes, by "crown" I meant some sort of arch in the roof. Be it a single ridge line ala house construction, a double ridge line ala Rob Gray's Wotz II, or a single very large radius curve (what I was picturing in my mind while I was typing).

The post-bear pictures that I saw were posted on a bulletin board at the campground that I stayed in at Yosemite's main valley. Picture a normal passenger car that had its rear door "opened" with what looked like a can opener the size of a crow/demo prybar. The whole window frame (in this case a rather substantial one of a late model 'aero' vehicle) had been peeled back and bent out of the way.
Say that you had one of these:
10294.jpg

and didn't care about the car, but wanted inside. That's about what it looked like. Below is not the picture, but it's close enough.

beardamagetocar2.jpg
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
crown

Yes, by "crown" I meant some sort of arch in the roof. Be it a single ridge line ala house construction, a double ridge line ala Rob Gray's Wotz II, or a single very large radius curve (what I was picturing in my mind while I was typing).

The post-bear pictures that I saw were posted on a bulletin board at the campground that I stayed in at Yosemite's main valley.

Thom,I grew up watching Yogi and Boo Boo. How deluded was I? The bears in that video look so mean. I couldn't drive my car over there. Haven't seen the floor for trash in month's. The bears would tear my little Honda apart looking for chips and choclate bars.

As for the crown, We always do it cause when we build a bus we have to supply "rollover" test data to our transport authorities and when we did our testing you could really see how much the ridge/crown added strength to the overall design. It's not very pronounced but naturally we use this feature on the motorhomes as well.

John
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Pop top v fixed

Hey. These were the pics from before. Am trying a new photo host site. So this is a test. Really hope my pic problems are now behind me.

BTW I’m certainly not saying these designs are the ultimate or they are any better than other setups, it’s just how we have done things in the past and thought the pics fitted into the thread.

2904519078_cc45feeefc.jpg


2904518038_2445a15557.jpg


2903676455_258c65b581.jpg


2903676013_a1749df15f.jpg
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
No pics

I'm almost ready to give up. Thanks for bearing with me. Just click on those links to view for now.
 

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