Roof design examples and comment

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
whatcharterboat said:
Thom, By “crown”, I presume you mean a ridge or raised section? While I don't think it's really necessary to have a crown in terms of water runoff,(how often is the vehicle roof perfectly level anyway?) sure it will help to prevent water pooling but the best benefit of a "crown” is surely the extra strength it provides (say if you have to go up on the roof).
Dude... you live in Australia, Noosa to boot, what you don't know about Rain I could write a book about eh!!! Just fooling with ya :friday:

Just ribbin ya, but seriously, if you'd ever been in a good ol NW winter rain storm, you'd understand what I mean. Water finds it's way into almost everything. If it can carve the Grand Canyon it can get in your camper, and will gaurenteed.

Cheers

Dave
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Rain, Rain, Go Away!!!!

Hi Dave It's actually pouring right now.

If there is any way we can eliminate a roof penetration we will. The least holes in the roof the better. When we build a camper or bus we will jump on the roof with a fire hose and let it rip. Everything will test OK. Then park it on a slightly different angle and possibly find a leak. Good non-hardening flexible sealer is always the answer and sure the less the water has a chance to pool the better.

Our new bodies are one piece so there are no seams or joins in the panels and we try and get away with only one hole on top and thats for the solar panel wiring and that's all. The panels are peel'n'stick type and all our vents go out the side. So far so good.

Dave have you been to Noosa before? When you live here you wonder why they call it the Sunshine Coast. The last 18mths have been the wettest I can remember. All the concrete footpaths and street gutters are green with algae. I'm going "desert" next big holiday. The big drought of the last 10 years has well and truly broken around here.

Regards John
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
whatcharterboat said:
Hi Dave It's actually pouring right now.

If there is any way we can eliminate a roof penetration we will. The least holes in the roof the better. When we build a camper or bus we will jump on the roof with a fire hose and let it rip. Everything will test OK. Then park it on a slightly different angle and possibly find a leak. Good non-hardening flexible sealer is always the answer and sure the less the water has a chance to pool the better.

Our new bodies are one piece so there are no seams or joins in the panels and we try and get away with only one hole on top and thats for the solar panel wiring and that's all. The panels are peel'n'stick type and all our vents go out the side. So far so good.

Dave have you been to Noosa before? When you live here you wonder why they call it the Sunshine Coast. The last 18mths have been the wettest I can remember. All the concrete footpaths and street gutters are green with algae. I'm going "desert" next big holiday. The big drought of the last 10 years has well and truly broken around here.

Regards John
How ya goin John,

yeah, I lived out in Bilo in QLD on a cattle station for quite some time, and I met a bunch of guy's who run a Surf Tour company out of Sydney. I surfed/coached with them for a couple months so we hit the whole surfable coast, Noosa, Delicate knobby etc all the way to Byron (what a trip that town is eh).

I know it rains there mate, just ribbin ya, I woke up on the station one day with a bloody lake/river out my front step. Every other week it was 45-50c and killing me.

I'm loving what you guy's are building on those FG platforms, and personaly my fav is the one (I belive) you designed for Kym? Perfect dimensions for really wheeling it and enough room to live. Worst part about all these pics is now I want to move back ;)

Cheers

Dave
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
How ya goin John

Dave, I can see you've picked up a little bit of the Occa accent but it's more like "owyagoin, maate?". Then I'd reply with "arwrite, owyuugoin?" Hahahah.

Byron (what a trip that town is eh).
Should have seen it in the '70s. Or should I say before Paul Hogan (aka Crocodile Dundee) bought it up. When was your trip anyway?


I woke up on the station one day with a bloody lake/river out my front step. Every other week it was 45-50c and killing me.
I always tell OS visitors that are considering travelling Aus to carefully draft their itinerary around the seasons. Sounds like you know first hand about what I mean.

I'm loving what you guy's are building on those FG platforms, and personaly my fav is the one (I belive) you designed for Kym?

We are just about to release our new pop top. There is one a similiar size to the one you mentioned and another with a couple of feet added to the front of it. The long one has a huge locker going right accross the front with a door on either side and yes, I checked >> It's perfect for a couple of surfboards up to about 7'2".

The short pop top body will go on a SWB FG like the other one or on to a standard WB with room for a double trailbike/quadbike rack on the back and the long pop will go on a standard wheel base FG or Isuzu NPS just nicely. I want to post the first pics on ExPo if its OK with the boss. He just wants to wait till it's a little closer to completion. Maybe a month away but definitely before Xmas. It has a Learjet style door which has required a lot of development but it 'll be worth it in the end.

(so this isn't a complete hi jack. Apologies.) The roof will be very similar to the one you liked. Only one penetration for the solar and the same photovoltaic laminates (PVL's). Also the roof won't be pneumatic lift this time> probably going to go with the electrically powered scissors that we are trying to develop. Also looking at welded seams instead of stitched for the soft sides. The soft sides are perfect for Aus but maybe a hard sided pop top roof for RTW trucks or export models???? There has certainly been some very valid comments in this thread.

Anyway Dave, if you liked that other pop top you'll flip over the new ones. Tons of new ideas. I think there is some old pop top "build" pics in the unimog forum under "404camper" if you're interested.

Worst part about all these pics is now I want to move back
.

Also included my favourite campsite pics. Our site is the pop top VW/blue tarp/white Ford Falcon in the foreground. The surf out the back is about 6' but the break will hold 15. The second pic is easy triple overhead. So I’ll see you next week then. LOL

ry%3D320


ry%3D320
 

haven

Expedition Leader
"We are just about to release our new pop top...I want to post the first pics on ExPo if its OK with the boss."

Yes, please! :chowtime:
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
I think whatcharterboat is referring to the new All Terrain Warriors "Scout" model. No photos yet, but the floorplans are available online here:

Hi Chip. How ya going?

I'll have to get the boss to update that page on the website. Long story but some of the specs maybe different and it has a better name. I reckon it does anyway.

Promise I'll keep you posted.
 

Bogo

Adventurer
jagular7 said:

I like! I can do that one easily and get a couple foot additional height only when I need it. Lifting can be done with a properly positioned air ram. I had thought of a similar design that lifted straight up and had sides that accordioned out. Then a solid panel would be folded down in the front and rear to lock it up.
 

Loras BR

Observer
Nice topic!

I would like to know if anybody has an idea of how I could seal the water ingress in the inferior part of the pop up?

I'm building a pop up to fit my Defender 110. Will use rigid "walls", very similar project to this one of Ex-tec.

I need some advice about how make the seal of the side walls with the base of the pop up (where all the water of the rain get to).

Thanks.

22_1.jpg22_4.jpg
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
If Mike Van Pelt asked for this thread, them I'm going to narrow my focus and assume that we're talking about a GXV truck. :)

This:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/48351-out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new


DSCF4391.JPG


I like that it's a hard-side. If you're going to build a lifting roof from scratch, might as well go with a hard-side. Also GXV has already got the engineering done, for their Pangea model, and the overall construction is also right up GXV's alley.

With the top down, it's still usable. Inside height with the top down is 5', which is roughly the same as a full-size conventional van with a 6" or so raised roof. Ala Roadtrek:

2899793_f520.jpg

So, even with the top down, it's still a very usable space. Even the head can be used as long as you don't mind sitting down to use it. The shower...probably not with the top down, unless it's a full wet bath and again, you don't mind sitting to use it.


For stealth and security, I like that with the top down, the windows disappear. For security, what I don't like, is that with the top down, the windows disappear. :D If I were sleeping in a place where I'd want the top down for security, then that's probably exactly where I'd want the ability to see what's going on outside. Shouldn't be a big deal though to rig blind spot cameras. The truck almost certainly needs a backup cam anyway. Might as well just go whole hog and add a 4th cam to see what's going on in front (put it up high with a fisheye lens, and you might also be able to use it to see if you are going to make it under that low-hanging obstacle).

With the top down, it doesn't really look like a camper, except for the hatches and that big entry door. I think those could be camouflaged to make the truck resemble a work truck. For weekending, probably not needed, but for long term, long distance use it might be a good idea.


Crawl through...probably not. Looking at the first pic in this post, it appears that there *might* be enough space under the roof to make a crawl though without the boot interfering with the roof...but it would certainly be tight. One way around that would be a gangway/mudroom between the cab and cabin, with a drop-side stairway.

That would also allow the door to be moved to the front, which has two main drawbacks: First, the door has to be a two-piece ala Alaskan. But that's not a big deal - in fact, it's good for ventilation by leaving the top part open, and besides Stephen Stewart recommends a dutch door anyway for security reasons. The other (possibly big deal) drawback is you lose 3' or so of "living space". You do regain part of the living space though by not having a side door, and the port side of the mudroom could be a 3' wide x 2' deep x 5' high storage/utility box, possibly with the generator and/or batteries in the bottom, though I'd rather have the batteries down between the frame rails.


The truck *might* fit in a container. If not, then the use of container wheels would probably be enough to get the job done. If not, then the camper box in the first pic is removable. It sits on a flatbed. I like the idea of a removable camper box. It doesn't have to sit on a flatbed, but I think taking remove-ability into the initial engineering is a good idea. I particularly like the way Darrin Fink does it, which I believe he does by incorporating 2" receivers into the frame of the camper box and using standard camper jacks:

frame-finished-and-removed.jpg

Add some receivers in the frame pointing down, then lift the box, drive the truck out, stick wheels in the bottom receivers, drop it down on its wheels and pull the jacks out of the sides. Then use the truck to shove it into the container. Lash it down, then drive the truck in right after it, ala that 6x6 Unicat Mog.



I think the lifting mechanism is important as well. There are a lot of different ways to do it, from Alaskan's hydraulics to the 4 electric screws jacks used in the camper in the first pic (which, using a 4 switch controller, allows the owner to tilt the roof a bit this way and that to direct rain runoff where he wants it), to a recent post by whalecharterboat (All Terrain Warriors) describing a setup with 4 pneumatic power up/down rams and equalizing valves. The (gorgeous) Bullet XV uses hydraulics, with a system of cables and pulleys (maylines) to keep everything synced:

http://bulletxv.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-lift-system/

Personally, if I was building my own from scratch, I'd go with a screw jack system similar to this:

Screw-Jack-Systems.jpg

Though, of course, it would be much less heavy duty and I'd use "traveling nut" jacks rather than "traveling screw" jacks, but you see what I mean. The driveshafts and 90 degree transmissions could be incorporated into the camper frame, the roof attached to the traveling nuts, and, it could even have a hand crank for use in a pinch. (And of course the motor doesn't have to be in the center...I'd likely stick it on the end of one leg of the "U" and delete the center transmission.)

There are several advantages, such as the roof goes up square regardless of uneven loading, even thin light duty screw jacks can lift a lot (roof + stuff), it stays where it's put (you could even drive with the roof up if you had to), it isn't going to leak and need new seals, it doesn't require locking pins to prevent creeping and when the roof is down, it's down "and locked". [EDIT: And...it's quiet.]

Also, it's mechanically pretty simple and bulletproof (yea, that was a pun about the maylines :D ).

[EDIT AGAIN: Also, forgot to mention: Since it's a mechanically synced system, and the roof is always perfectly square to the bottom box - two-piece overlapping interior partition walls are not a problem. I.e., you can have a head with walls and a door instead of just a curtain.]




A box like that could be mounted on a brand new Fuso FG, or on a refurbed surplus Mog (smaller Mogs, like maybe the commonly available 1300) or several other platforms.
I think GXV could probably sell a few...especially if they could do it at 1/4 - 1/2 the price of a bigger rig.
 
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mattressstx

New member
Alright...interesting post. I like the way you have exemplify each and every thing and part. I would like to know which part do you want to prefer??? and why??? Which is more beneficial among all???
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
I did a lot of thinking about roof options, and ended up with a full height solid roof, with the corners cut off.

I looked at the pros and cons of each of the three major roof types:

Pop up - soft sides
.( either Earthcruiser style or tilting style)
Good
Lower profile - may fit in a container ( touch and go with a Unimog, especially with a high roof or roof rack) Less wind resistance, better clearance under bridges.
Bad
Soft sided/pop up campers may be fine for weekend or a few weeks, but when it comes to months and all sort of weather conditions, noise and heat insulation. Probably more weight required for the frame of the truck as there is no cross bracing so will need a stronger structure. Raising and lowering would be a bit of a pain each stop unless it was very easy, then the added complication of jacks etc.

Pop up - hard sides ( Alaskan or similar)

Good
Same as the soft sided pop up, but with extra noise and sound insulation, better security if the top drops down over the windows.

Bad
Complicated, fairly heavy, a real problem if it gets stuck.

Full height

Good - simple, easy to build, best structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have support more "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required.

Bad - height - must be under 3.5m for the low bridges in Eastern Europe, extra wind resistance, overhangs and trees could be a problem, won't fit in a container unless the back is taken off,


Full height with chamfered sides.


Good - still relatively simple, easy to build, even better structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have still have lots of "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required. Chamfers lower the risk of branches hitting the edges - Unimog ambulances and other military vehicles seem to always have this feature, visually not so imposing when standing next to it.

Bad - As per the full height camper, must be under 3.5m for the low bridges in Eastern Europe, extra wind resistance, overhangs and trees could still be a problem, won't fit in a container unless the back is taken off, adds some complication to the frame, less interior volume and high level storage.


In the end, all thing consider this is what we went with - full height with chamfered corners.



DSC04004.jpg

DSC04515.JPG

DSC04035.jpg

DSC04692.JPG
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Alright...interesting post. I like the way you have exemplify each and every thing and part. I would like to know which part do you want to prefer??? and why??? Which is more beneficial among all???

Eh? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? There's no one else here, you must be talkin' to me!

Taxi1.jpg

:D


I would say the most important thing to me is the ability to use the camper, even with the top down.

If you pull over for a quick stop, which happens a lot, it would be nice to just hop in the back without having to deploy the roof. Grab a cup of coffee, a snack, use the head and off you go, back on the road.

Also, if you need to sleep in a non-secure area, you can leave the top down for both stealth and security, and still use the camper and get some sleep.
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
I did a lot of thinking about roof options, and ended up with a full height solid roof, with the corners cut off...

...Full height with chamfered sides.

Good - still relatively simple, easy to build, even better structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have still have lots of "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required. Chamfers lower the risk of branches hitting the edges - Unimog ambulances and other military vehicles seem to always have this feature, visually not so imposing when standing next to it.

Another "good" for the chamfer design is overall width when off-camber:

72737d1236030765-toyota-pickup-offcamber-pic-pictures-truck-023.jpg
 
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