1997-1999 Suburban expo questions

[Soliloquy_LV]

Hello! This is my first post here. I want to start off by saying how much I enjoy reading this forum. This has got to be one of the best online communities I have ever had the privilege of being a part of.

I am looking into getting a 1996-1999 4wd suburban for an overland/expedition build. Incidentally, this will also be my SHTF vehicle in the (in my opinion extremely) unlikely event of the end of the world.

Criteria:
1996-1999 4WD suburban with a straight frame/body. 1500 (because I want to run a 350 for the slightly better fuel economy).

What I intend to do with it:
6" suspension lift (I will have some questions bout this)
GM performance 290 hp crate engine
nv4500 transmission swap
np241 transfer case with manual shift lever
4.11 or 4.56 gear sets
14 bolt FF rear end w/ locker
9.25" front end from 2500 'burb
2500 torsion bars & keys
35 or 37" tires on 17" rims
GMT800 braking system
Tactical Armor Group front and rear bumpers (yes I am aware of their quality control issues and I will make sure I address them when ordering. If someone has a better suggestion, I am very open to suggestions).
high strength drive shafts, half shafts and cv joints
topo navigation system (need a suggestion here)
on board air system
on board arc welding system
on board communications suite
secondary fuel tank (preferably in the same size as the stock 42 gallon tank)
on board water purification/storage

I'm sure that the list will grow as time goes on but that is the big bits.

I plan on making this purchase in mid February after tax time. The upgrades will have a $10-$12k budget. Once I hve the vehicle in hand, upgrades will begin in mid to late march. I want to know exactly what I plan on doing when I have the 'burb in hand. I would like to have a nice roof rack but no idea what kind to even look at getting.

I welcome any and all suggestions on this build and I will keep this thread heavily updated as progress is made.

Thanks for having me here and I look forward to having more to contribute as time goes on!

Also, if anyone lives in the Las Vegas area who is willing to give advise on a local shop or is able to do most of these modifications I would appreciate any advise.

 

[gmcpimpin]

Wow seems like a big list you got their. I would suggest going with a 2500 suburban because it can be had with a 350 gas engine, and also already has the larger brakes and 14 bolt rear axle. Also the front 9.25 differential from a 2500 will not 'bolt in' to a 1500 chassis. I would actually recommend a later GMT800 2500 suburban with the 6.0 LQ4 V8 since it will net the roughly the same fuel mileage if not better, with more horsepower and torque and has the GMT800 3/4 brakes which are much better than the GMT400 3/4 brakes. Honestly I would purchase the vehicle and run it before making any major modifications, because you may figure out you don't need half of what you wanted to make a good expedition vehicle.

 

[bfdiesel]

If you are going to be swapping the engine and trans why do you need a 1500? With all the stuff you are talking about a 2500 would be a better foundation as the frame is stouter. In the long run you will have less work to do on it and fewer parts to source out. The mileage difference will be almost nothing after everything is done as all the major weight saving items you will be taking off and putting what is already on a 2500 or going even bigger, so if that is the only reason to look for a 1500 it is not a good one.

A 2500 will start out with the bigger front diff and torsion bars, better brakes, and a 14 bolt FF or an AAM out of a truck (with discs and locker already) will bolt right up.

If you are really worried about mileage find a 2500 6.5 turbo diesel of the years you want will get better mileage than any of the gas engines you are thinking about or have been suggested. Also on the mileage thing once you lift it mileage will be much less no matter which frame you choose or engine you run. The laws of physics ensure that.

I suggest you look for a Burb in good shape body and interior wise with maybe a blown engine or trans for fairly cheap, and a rolled or totaled truck with the rear axles trans and t case you want. Look for both being 2500 with truck being a HD. This will give you all kinds of things like the pedal assembly for the clutch and gobs of little things you will find out you need as you get deeper into everything.

My $.02.:smiley_drive:

 

[DakotaAdventurer]

I am looking into getting a 1996-1999 4wd suburban for an overland/expedition build. Incidentally, this will also be my SHTF vehicle in the (in my opinion extremely) unlikely event of the end of the world.

I am in the exact same boat you are. I am about ready to sell my truck and am on the hunt for a suburban for an expo/hunting/SHTF rig that I can haul my family of 6 in comfortably in.

Wow seems like a big list you got their. I would suggest going with a 2500 suburban because it can be had with a 350 gas engine, and also already has the larger brakes and 14 bolt rear axle. Also the front 9.25 differential from a 2500 will not 'bolt in' to a 1500 chassis. I would actually recommend a later GMT800 2500 suburban with the 6.0 LQ4 V8 since it will net the roughly the same fuel mileage if not better, with more horsepower and torque and has the GMT800 3/4 brakes which are much better than the GMT400 3/4 brakes. Honestly I would purchase the vehicle and run it before making any major modifications, because you may figure out you don't need half of what you wanted to make a good expedition vehicle.

I have been doing a bit of research in my search. I COMPLETELY agree with some of this. a good chunk of what you want to do in your list can be eliminated by starting with a 2500 rather than a 1500. They are built tougher, larger/stronger components, and also have a bit of a "lifted stance" right out of the box. as for the year, go with 97+. 96+ will give you the vortec 5.7 motor which is well worth the extra coin, and the 96's had some MAJOR fuel pump problems. I would stay away from the 6.0 motor personally unless you plan on using the truck for pulling a larger camper or something. The fuel mileage is NOT the same as the 5.7L vortec and the power gains if you are not pulling are not worth the mileage. With proper gearing, a healthy 350 will have no problem with 35" tires.

Good luck and I plan to tune in to others comments!

 

[Soliloquy_LV]

Hey, thanks for the great replies guys! I am glad that I posted here to start getting advise before I jumped into buying the truck right off.

gmcpimpin - you make a couple of good points, I was unaware of the fact that the 2500 front end would not bolt into a 1500 chassis. I was also unaware that the 2500s could have a 350 in them, I thought they all came with 454s (of course I am aware that with a swap I could put virtually any engine into them).

bfdiesel - good points about the fuel economy. I guess the notion that I may be able to maintain some semblance of "mid to high teens" for mileage was pretty much a pipe dream. Thanks for the info that the 2500 chassis is tougher than the 1500 chassis - I thought they were the same. really good insight into what to look for from a donor vehicle.

DakotaAdventurer - I did know about the fuel pump problems but I figured I would just swap it out for a 97+ one. Good point about the 6.0 and 5.7 vortec motors. I am still getting a feel for how the engines have progressed through the years which is why I figured a simple swap to a new motor would be the easiest way to get a good solid motor with all the newest tech in it. Best of luck finding your new 'burb!

Okay some clarification:
I will not be towing anything with any regularity.
I do want to have a 1000+ mile range.
I want to be relatively self sufficient while away from "civilization".
I have no fab/welding skills (I will be taking a class at the local college but I still would not consider myself a welder in anything but an emergency situation).
I am, however, very comfortable with hydraulics, plumbing, electronics, high pressure airs systems so those parts of the build will be entirely mine to do.
I want IFS because this will be my daily driver.

As for why I want to go with a 1997-1999 model years? I like the body style for one. I want dual front air bags (1997-1999) and I just figured that going newer would be a ticket to more stuff to go wrong with hidden and unneeded gadgetry. Most of the work I want to do to my 'burb will be aimed at making it as simple a vehicle to maintain as possible. I would rather have a truck I can fix with a hammer and a kitchen knife than one that required a maintenance bay and seven computers just to figure out what is wrong with it. That's the problem I have with my current vehicle.

I am new to this so I am still learning. I am very pleased to hear everyone's suggestions. Thanks for the insightful replies

 

[bfdiesel]

At 12 mpg you will need 84 gallons of fuel which means you will need to get another 40 gallons in there some where.

 

[DakotaAdventurer]

IMO, 1000 mile range is not feasible attainable in this type of vehicle. I have two 20 gallon tanks in my truck right now and there is really nowhere else in the chassis to stuff more. Add 5gallon cans where you can and you won't get another 40 gallons.

Plus, you might as well be pulling a fuel trailer at that point because the weight of 85 gallons is well over 500#. Plus all the other gear you want, you will be adding 2000#+ to your rig. You may want to be considering a 1 ton chassis at that point. haha

If you can't "bug out" in less than 300 miles, it is too far to reach in an attainable timeline.

 

[xbox73]

The other slight problem you will run into is a 6" lift, which seem to be particularly scarce on the 2500 with the AutoTragic, um, I mean AutoTrac 4x4, if you still want the 4x4 to work. I used to have a '99 Suburban 2500 4x4 with the big block 454 (since upgraded to a diesel Excursion), and the one 6" lift kit that I found that had a 2500 4x4 application & seemed well regarded was from RCD (http://www.racecardynamics.com/), so I'd investigate that option (though it looks like they're redesigning their website at the moment). And I agree with the others that there is very little space left on the chassis with a 4x4 drivetrain to add additional gas tanks. Luckily, the Burb has a relatively large stock gas tank at 42-44 gallons, but short of adding jerry cans in the back, you'll likely be 'limited' to a 500-600 range, depending on lift, engine, vehicle weight, tires, how full the gas tank is etc. However, despite lower gas mileage than many other vehicles, due to the significantly large gas tank, the Burb still has a further range than most & I don't see a 500-600 mile range as a particular limitation.

For the topo, you have 3 options:
- old school: paper topo maps, & compass, perhaps augmented with a phone or handheld GPS
- purpose-designed dedicated robust solution like Lowrance Baja or HD / HDS series chartplotters (cost can be significant, depends on screen size, features, built-in maps desired/required)
- cobbled-together homebrew solution e.g. Andoid phone or tablet running BackCountry navigator Pro, or iDevice running MotionX (with additional Bluetooth GPS puck for devices without GPS, or requiring better refresh rate or placement than built-in GPS)

 

[njtacoma]

There is a 2500 w/350 in Denver on CL right now: http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3484104017.html
I'm not suggesting this is "the one" but 2500's w/350's seem to hit Cl around here once a month or so.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Soliloquy_LV]

DakotaAdventurer - you make a good, solid point. I will consider other options for enhancing range. Fortunately, all three of my bugout locations are within a 250 mile radius of where I live so I suspect that the 1k mile range is just a "nice to have" item. I will still seek enhancing the range but there may well be other options.

xbox73 - Great information. I suppose I will have to go back to a 1500 and find a way to strengthen it rather than holding out for the much harder to find 2500. I will definitely check out those chart plotters to see how they work. I will also take a look at getting topographical maps of my area. Unfortunately, map and compass navigation is not something I know how to do. Looks like I need to add another class to my schedule!

njtacopma - thanks for the link! I am not quite ready to buy yet as I am waiting for tax time but I appreciate the effort on your part

 

[xbox73]

The other slight problem you will run into is a 6" lift, which seem to be particularly scarce on the 2500 with the AutoTragic, um, I mean AutoTrac 4x4, if you still want the 4x4 to work.

xbox73 - Great information. I suppose I will have to go back to a 1500 and find a way to strengthen it rather than holding out for the much harder to find 2500. I will definitely check out those chart plotters to see how they work. I will also take a look at getting topographical maps of my area. Unfortunately, map and compass navigation is not something I know how to do. Looks like I need to add another class to my schedule!

I think maybe I wasn't clear, or you misread my post ... I didn't mean that the 2500 3/4 ton in 4x4 is hard to find, just that suitable lift kits for them are.

Also, maps & topo techniques apply roughly equally whether using paper or electronic maps. Compass nav or estimated position not too difficult either if there are nearby landmarks, or e.g you have a last known position & time, as well as recorded estimated heading(s), speed(s) & time(s) since last known position & time. Local outdoor outfitters, like REI, regularly have navigation & GPS classes that cover the basics. But map & compass nav is a basic skill that is useful to have in case of equipment failure (or something as simple as car or portable batteries running out), and helps to understand things when using electronic equipment. Of course, most people use electronic, as it's quicker, more accurate & easier, but it's good to have the basic skills to fall back on.

 

[bfdiesel]

If you are planning on putting in a manual t-case you won't need to worry about auto trac. As far as lift kits I found a pro comp and MCGAUGHYS and that was with a 15 second google search. Also Off Road Design could probably hook you up or if you really want to make it tough and simple you could look into a SAS.

 

[Schmuck]

I lurk on this forum often and decided to jump in on this i have a 97 Burb 5.7 vortec. I have had it for 3 or 4 years and cant decide if i want to start building it or sale it and start on somthing else. I bought from the original owner and it has 270000 miles on it. Had a gm crate motor dropped in it at some point but dont know the actual mileage on it. 2500 with 4.10 rear limited slip 4x4 slt interior . i have been driving it to work lately it runs good. I have noticed there is delay between throttle and move. dont know if it is in the tranny or some other slack in the rear or driveline. kinda think it might be in the torque convertor.The brakes suck dont know if it just needs sensors or what. No rust a few dings and minor dents ac leaks off. we love it for camping local and just bumming around in I just cant decide if i want to start dropping money into it. the upside is I bought it for a song drove it for 3 years as is and have put an alternator and gas into it. Id like to be able to get into it go with no worries. thinking about dumping it and getting an older 3/4 ton burb that i know more about working on to build. 350 carb straight axel. dont know looking for thoughts on the subject.not trying to hijack the thread just thought it sort of fit.

 

[xbox73]

As far as lift kits I found a pro comp and MCGAUGHYS and that was with a 15 second google search.

Things may have changed in the last few years, though I doubt it as the '92 - '99 Burb has been out for a while. When I looked into it, if one read the fine print or install instructions closely, the majority of 6" lift kits for that platform were either for the 1500 (1/2 ton) platform only, or 2WD only, or had a disclaimer that said AutoTrac wouldn't work any more. Very few kits were available for combination of 2500 (3/4 ton) platform, with 4x4, and retaining use of AutoTrac 4x4 after install. Again, like I said, things may have changed in the last few years, as I no longer own the Burb, so I haven't kept up on developments for it.

 

[xbox73]

I have noticed there is delay between throttle and move. dont know if it is in the tranny or some other slack in the rear or driveline. kinda think it might be in the torque convertor.

I thought the same twice. Once it was the plug wires that needed replacing & once it was the MAF sensor was dirty/oily due to using an oil-based K&N. It's worth checking both of those options, as they are both relatively quick & cheap to remedy.

The brakes suck dont know if it just needs sensors or what.

I was never that happy with the brakes on my '99 2500 4x4 454 Burb. I think it might even have had hydroboost, as it was the big block that doesn't develop a lot of vacuum. I thought the brakes were barely sufficient to stop the vehicle itself, never mind if it was towing a trailer (with trailer axle brakes) too. But most of all I hated the mushy brake pedal, that didn't provide feedback to the driver on braking performance, weren't easy to modulate, and never inspired confidence. I put some cryo rotors on, some performance heavy duty pads, and flushed the brake fluid, and it was better, and I eventually learned to trust it, but the brakes were still never that great, and I still had to deal with a mushy brake pedal with vague feedback.

The brakes on the '00 Excursion I upgraded to are wonderful in comparison - the feedback is great, easy to modulate (I can threshold brake & do a small chirp of the tires at will, if desired), inspire confidence & most of all they just plain work well. Performance has been off of late, but that's because both front & rear rotors & pads are well due for replacement. I already have the parts, and once installed, complete with a full brake fluid flush, I full expect performance to be restored. One difference worth noting though is that I have mud terrains on the Excursion, which don't have as much surface patch contact area & hence grip on tarmac as the all terrains I was using on my Burb, so it's probably easier to lock up the mud terrains on the Excursion.