2012 Lifted 2wd NPR Crew Cab

Billysiron

New member
I love the look of the 4x4 Cantors and NPR's. Even better when they are a crew cab, unfortunately to my knowledge the crew cab 4x4 is not available in the US.

Would it be possible to purchase a 2012 NPR Crew Cab 2wd and install taller springs on the front so that I could fit the larger tires and wheels available for this truck? I would like the look of the lifted 4x4 with out having to spend too much extra $

Thanks
Billy
 

DzlToy

Explorer
There are no 4wd Isuzus available in the US. Mitsubishi has a new (as of 2012) Canter FG for the US and it is available in 4WD, but they are not cheap and lack options such as lockers and gear ratio choices.

To convert an NPR into 4WD would not be that difficult really. I would add a solid axle like a Dana 60 or AAM10.5 up front using a leaf or link suspension. A divorced NP205 or Atlas transfer case would be used to provide 4WD. If you just want to lift the truck for larger wheels and tires, that would be simpler to do, but would only be aesthetic, not offering any performance gains.

PM me if you are serious about either conversion.
 

Billysiron

New member
Thanks for the reply. I have got a lot of info from some of the other threads on this truck. I actually stopped by today to price out the conversion to 4wd. One question the guy had was how wide the spring pads were on the front ( from pin to pin). The company I went to locally does exceptional work but charges an arm and a leg. So I am trying to do some of the foot work on parts needed for the conversion. Possibly would like to maybe do the work myself.

Let me ask something. Is it unheard of to use the existing straight axle that comes stock on the 2wd version and just have taller springs made and installed. Or would it be better to put an axle ( like the Dana 60) in place? Then at a later date, when I get more $, I could install the transfer case and driveshaft?

Also one other technical question, when installing bigger tires ( no bigger than a 35") is there any ABS sensors I need to deal with? ....Roll stability sensors?

Thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated

Billy
 

DzlToy

Explorer
Following up our conversation, the front axle on many medium duty 2WD trucks looks something like this:

http://www.meritor.com/products/axles/truck_frontnondrive/default.aspx

the "drop" from the centerline of the hub to the lowest portion of the beam varies with truck size, suspension design and application. I have seen some with 5-6" of ground clearance on 30-32" tires, which makes it very easy to snag with mild off roading. Lifting the cab or body with springs, bushings, shackles, etc., does not help you here, the beam stays the same. The only way to gain clearance under the beam would be larger diameter tires. The beams are cast, so they are very heavy duty and will be fine if you are traveling state parks, forest roads, into a mountain bike or ATV park, etc. I would not keep a low beam axle for anything more serious than that.

For custom wheels:

Longs Wheels in Jacksonville, FL - call CJ @ 800-874-0869, fab time is about 3-4 weeks usually.

Vision Wheels has a SRW 19.5 (type 81 wheel) in 8 on 6.5, which is a very common truck pattern

Ag Wheel and Tire in Wichita has made custom wheels for a "deuce and a half" and may be able to do others rated for heavier truck use

Marsh Racing Wheels and Allied Wheels - not sure if they have something heavy duty enough, just have to check

You need a properly rated wheel and preferably a forged wheel, which is stronger than a cast wheel in almost every case.

Mitsubishi FE84/FG bolt pattern is 6 holes, 222.25mm bolt circle diameter, 127mm offset (not backspace), and wheel at mounting surface is 9mm thick.

FE84 Crew Cab Fuso Front Spring Size is 1200mm length (not sure if this is spring length or spring eye to spring eye), 70mm wide, two leaves are 10mm thick and three leaves are 11mm thick.

Sprung weight (does not include axles and wheels, etc, basically what are the springs holding up in the air: Front (3700 pounds) and Rear (900 pounds)

FE84 Crew Cab drawings show about 7" clearance under the front beam axle at full axle load.

Stock tires are only about 30" tall, so you will need to figure your lift based on how much larger of a tire you want to run, how much articulation you think you will see, etc.

Center of spring to center of spring on FE84 front is 31.77". A standard medium duty truck frame is 34" wide. FE84 frame is 29.65" wide (outside edges)

For springs check Deaver and Alcan, they will ask for quite a few measurements (width, arch, bolt size, etc) from your current springs and will then make a new spring pack to your spec. Thinner springs and more of them to make up the pack will ride better than fewer heavier springs with the same overall pack thickness. You could also look at a lightweight spring pack and a air bag helper system (large bags/higher volume ride better than smaller bags) so now you are not relying on a stiff/heavy spring to take the load, which gives you a harsh ride.

Good shocks also make a huge difference, the factory ones are set up for a work truck, not for the comfort of the driver necessarily and the same goes for seats and other accessories. Factory tires are probably very heavy (12-16 ply rating) and ride like bricks. If you dont need the load capacity go down to an E or F range tire.

Just to give you an idea of some of the weights and sizes you could be working with, here are some numbers from a 2008 Mitsubish Fuso Crew Cab Chassis (no box or bed)

165" wheelbase, 254" overall length, 80" wide, 90" tall, 105" back of cab to center of rear axle, 4365 pounds on the front axle, 2070 pounds on the rear axle, 6435 curb weight (not sure if dry or wet), 5360 Front Axle Max Load and 9880 Rear Axle Max Load.

With a cabover crew cab truck, you dont have much to spare on the front end IMO, 4-5 people in the cab with some gear and you are at max. Not that the axle is going to fail, its probably got a HUGE safety margin in there and OEM are notoriously conservative about stuff like that. You also have the advantage of "easier use" carting the family around, towing a boat, etc., than heavily laden working it hard everyday, all day, etc.
 

DzlToy

Explorer
As a matter of comparison, a 2011 NPR HD Crew Cab Chassis:

has a 6830 pound rated front beam axle (in the 18k GVWR NQR Crew Cab), well over 1000 pounds difference, so that is the type of thing you need to take into account if you are looking at suspension, wheels and tires or especially if you want to swap a 4WD axle like a Dana 60 under it. For the NPR Crew Cab, it is a 5360 rated beam in the front (14,500 GVWR)

An 05+ Super 60 in an F550 application has a 7000 GAWR, which would be plenty. It has a 19.50 bolt pattern common to many medium duty trucks, but not to NPR, so now you have to change the rear axle to match or run some type of bolt pattern adapter/spacer combo that can handle 7k-10k pounds.

Used axles like front loading rockwells and Arvin Meritor, etc could give you other options and have 6, 8 and 10 lug bolt patterns but are often too heavy and large for something NPR size with 32-35" tires.

NQR Crew has a 13k rear axle with a 19.5 wheels, but only a 6 bolt pattern instead of the more common 8 bolt pattern. A 13k rear axle is overkill for you, that is D110/D130 territory.

Curb weight on the front axle is almost 4600 pounds leaving you only 900 pounds or so for 4-5 people and gear (some of the weight of the rear cab would transfer to rear axle, but again there are margins here)

NPR chassis is 33.5" wide at outside edges of frame, closer to the standard 34, not sure why they didnt go the extra half inch, stupid IMO...

As you can see there are many factours and variables to consider when modifying these trucks and changing one thing can easily affect several other things on the truck.

The ideal scenario IMO would be to get the cab that you want and either swap it onto a one ton truck chassis giving you tons of choices for engine, suspension, tires, lockers, gears, etc., or to build a custom frame, axles, suspension, etc and set the cab of your choice on top. Neither of these will be cheap, but neither is a new NPR with a few mods after purchase.

You may wish to consider an older used truck (2000-2006) in good condition as a build platform, spending your money on mods you want instead of putting it towards a new truck thats really built to do stuff you probably arent going to use it for.

Call or PM if you need more info or have questions.

Cheers
 

Billysiron

New member
Yes , good info.

It wasvgreat talking to you the other day Jon. A lot of good points and ideas. All in all I have a good feeling about this project. I just got off the phone with Mark from All Terrian Warriors. I think my plan of attack will be as follows.

Get the truck first, seems that the crew cab version is not as readily available as I thought. Thank god I decided in white cuz red just don't exist unless special ordered ( was told 5 months from time of order placed). So hopefully my dealer can find a white one already here in the states.

Next will be to get the truck rolling on the new tires and rims. The more I think of it the better I like the idea of installing the front axle and springs and not having to deal with the transfer case. That will get done later. So for a little while she will be lifted but still only 2wd.

At some point, I'll just have to dive in and start putting stuff on the truck but for the most part I think I will be able to leave the rear axle and deal with the 4.55 gears

I am going to measure the spread on the lug bolts to see if they are the same as what's on the NPS sold over in Australia. If they are that will be a big relief as I would imagine I can get a lot of goodies from our Australian brothers.

Thanks again guys. I hope in short time to be posting picks of one bad ***** rig

Billy
 

Billysiron

New member
I can't for the life of me find where I saw the posted top speed of the NPR and NQR. I think I read some where in the 80 mph range.

Is there a calculation i can use to get an estimated top speed with a 35" tire using either the 4.55 or the 5.125 rear end.

I have a feeling the larger 5.2L diesel will do fine with the 4.55 gears on a 35" tire. I drove my buddies stock NRR the other day. He was loaded to the gills and the power seemed ok. Definitely not going to get any speeding tickets in this thing but don't want to max out at 60 on the freeway either.
 

DzlToy

Explorer
With a true 35" tire, Aisin 6 speed (.634 OD) and 4.55 rear end, the math says top speed of 92 mph at 2550 rpm.

Only driven one empty and stock, but you should be able to cruise at 65-70 mph without any issues.

There are new white crew cabs at a dealer 10 minutes from me. If you are interested in having the work done here, that would make the most sense and you only have to deal with shipping/delivery one way upon completion.

EDIT: One NPR HD in stock, 176" wheelbase, 14.500 GVW, no price on window sticker, 2012 model.

An identical truck in FLA fitted with a mesh landscape body is listed at 51K.
 
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Billysiron

New member
Thought about that Jon, and i appreciate the offer, but unfortunately I need the ones that go to Cali or Az. They have the Cali emissions junk on them :(

Been looking myself (as wheel as my dealer). Looking for a CC with the 150" WB

Billy
 

DzlToy

Explorer
I assume that you are wanting to build something similar to this:

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...om/documents/Isuzu_S_250_300_Crew_ARK0291.pdf

The NPR is available in Oz as 4WD and re-named the NPS if my memory serves me correctly.

When did the California trucks get emissions for NPR type trucks? Could you go back a few years and avoid that or has it been a while? The newer body style was actually started in 06 I think, which should get you in before emission requirements. It would save you some cash too.

Maybe something like this:

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=3501809&

2007 Cali crew cab with 16' bed for 29k
 

Billysiron

New member
So what is the consencus on installing larger tires on vehicles with ABS. I have read on other threads that guys have issues with the ABS light coming on when they turn into driveways . Others have said to disconnect the ABS sensor.

What does all this mean in terms of installing a larger tire ( say 35" or 36") on a NPR that comes stock with 30" tires? Seems like if all four wheels have the same diameter, there should be no issues.

Am i missing something here?

Thanks,
Billy
 

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