2020 Ford F250 on 37s - Expedition Truck Camper Build!

[montypower]

With the Truck Camper removed… We tackle another great trail in Moab with our Ford F250 Super Duty!

Fins and Things is rated by the Red Rock 4WD club as a “4” trail rating.

This is an excellent trail for learning the terrain in Moab and offers plenty of fun obstacles. Surprisingly, there are additional optional challenges that significantly increases the trail difficulty. Rock ledges, steep climbs and drop offs… all part of the fun of this trail.

It’s incredible how much traction is available. However, with some sand and water the traction can quickly disappear. This is an extremely unique 4WD driving experience!

 

[knutsCO]

Hey Peter,

I have a 2017 F350 with a Laredo SC that my wife and I have been enjoying since Feb 2020. This is our first truck camper and we feel like it has been a good compromise between comfort and agility, although we have had to turn back on several occasions while exploring rough tracks in Colorado due to the height (10.5'). We have ordered a composite pop-up TC from a new start-up company in Golden, Colorado that will lower our height by about two feet. We are well aware of the downsides of a soft sided pop-up, but are willing to give it a go for the improved access to more remote areas and much lower center of gravity vs. our current hard-side which carries a good deal of weight fairly high in the camper.

I expect delivery of the pop-up in early summer, and in preparation have been thinking about suspension modifications I would like to make to improve low to medium speed (up to 35 mph) comfort on rough two tracks and unmaintained FS roads with lots of washboard. I don't plan on prepping the truck to handle higher speed whoops, nor do we typically seek out difficult rocky sections of trail where a lot of load speed crawling is required. For us, the rock crawling is more about getting to a remote destination vs. the enjoyment of testing the truck's limits. I have read through this entire thread and have been impressed with both the quality of the information you have provided and the thoughtfulness in which it is presented. I would appreciate it if you could take a few moments and provide a bit more detail on specifics of your suspension build as well as feedback on how it has been performing for you over the past year. My questions (in no particular order) are:

1. Do you frequently use the DSC feature on your Fox dampers? For instance, do you soften up the low speed and high speed compression when crawling, use firmer high speed settings on fast gravel roads with whoops, and firmer low speed settings on pavement to reduce sway? Alternatively, have you found settings that work for you in most situations and just leave them alone? For my application, I believe the Fox 2.0 dampers with remote reservoir and LSC adjustment will suffice, but would like to hear your thoughts on the Fox DSC and compression adjustment in general. My understanding is that the LSC adjustment range is very significant and noticeable, but the HSC is much more subtle and likely only required for higher speeds with big hits? I'm thinking I would potentially use the LSC to increase damping for control of sway and brake dive on paved roads, and use full open on the LSC adjuster for more comfort while crawling and on rough and washboard roads...
2. Are you happy with your damper valving in general? Have you had Accutune re-valve any of your dampers? What about the rebound valving, have you experienced any harshness or suspension squatting in washboard sections of road due to too much rebound damping? Alternatively, do you think you might benefit from more rebound damping on slower trail sections where the camper is swaying side to side from alternating rocks and potholes? Do you feel like Accutune "nailed it" for your spring rates and have provided a good compromise on the rebound damping?
3. What are you using for compression bump stops up front? Ford stock '17-'19 cushy yellow stops or '20+ shorter and harder black stops? Are you still using the Carli bump stop drops? If so, how long are the drops and why are you using them if you are confident that you do not have a tire interference issue through the entire range of motion? What is the total available compression travel that you have with the Carli diesel springs and your bump stop configuration? I understand that the Carli springs provide a much more compliant ride due to the lower spring rate, but I'm very curious about how much real up travel the "leveling" springs provide. I am running 35x12.50R17 with +18 offset to maximize tire volume without having to lift or trim, but am considering a 1" coil spacer to increase my compression travel to 4" ('17-'19 up travel is 3" at stock ride height). Thoughts?

Cheers,
Ken

 

[montypower]

Do you have an air compressor? Airing down is the cheapest and best modification. Do you have a pole saw? That is a game changer trying to fit a big rig in tight spaces (and cheap). Now... on to the questions!

1. Do you frequently use the DSC feature on your Fox dampers?
   We only adjust when we unload/drop the camper (and turn them down to the lowest setting). Yes, it is rather noticeable. The base valving is set for our "loaded" truck camper weight. It's a bit "over valved" being that we only turn it up 2-3 clicks when loaded. I've talked with Accutune about valving them one step lower. Just haven't gotten it done as they have been rather busy and we haven't wanted to have our truck down.
   The larger diameter shocks do help if you are going Baja racing... However, that's not why you should go with the 2.5" (or 3" if available) over the 2" diameter shocks. You have a MASSIVE top heavy vehicle!! The larger diameter shock will have significantly more "leverage" or force to help control your weight. I'd absolutely go as large of diameter as available! Adjusters are handy if you change your loaded weight. None of this means anything if you don't have proper valving (tuning) for your setup and proper springs.
   Note: we don't have any sway bars (front or rear) and don't need them. That's the beauty of properly built suspension for the loaded vehicle weight.
   
   
2. Are you happy with your damper valving in general? Have you had Accutune re-valve any of your dampers?
   Yes overall (see above). I'd like to drop the valving slightly (for softer ride when unloaded and turned down).
   What about the rebound valving, have you experienced any harshness or suspension squatting in washboard sections of road due to too much rebound damping?
   Nope. Rebound is well controlled. Does fine even when the truck camper has caught air. Extremely controlled and predictable.
   Alternatively, do you think you might benefit from more rebound damping on slower trail sections where the camper is swaying side to side from alternating rocks and potholes?
   Not really. It does really well. It's amazing how much just turning up the adjusters 2-3 clicks will do for slow speed sway. It's really good for what it is (big, heavy, tall rig).
   Do you feel like Accutune "nailed it" for your spring rates and have provided a good compromise on the rebound damping?
   Yes. But it's just slightly over valved. It's perfect 2-3 clicks up from zero.
3. What are you using for compression bump stops up front? Ford stock '17-'19 cushy yellow stops or '20+ shorter and harder black stops? Are you still using the Carli bump stop drops? If so, how long are the drops and why are you using them if you are confident that you do not have a tire interference issue through the entire range of motion?
   Using the Carli front bump stop drops (with black stops) and rear bump stop drops (yellow stops). You need to lower the front bump stop to allow full suspension compression with 37s (and not rubbing or bottoming out the shocks). I have a video for 37 fitment and how to test (worth watching). Yes, you need bump stops regardless to avoid bottoming out the shocks (damage them) and for tire clearance. All the part #s are on page 1.
   What is the total available compression travel that you have with the Carli diesel springs and your bump stop configuration? I understand that the Carli springs provide a much more compliant ride due to the lower spring rate, but I'm very curious about how much real up travel the "leveling" springs provide.
   We gained compression travel. We are ~5" to the front bump stop. Front bump stop is lowered 1" to limit to travel to avoid bottoming out the shocks and allow room for the 37s at full compression (no rubbing). Think we were close to 3.5" lift with the 2.5" diesel springs. Work great if you have steel bumper, winch and other heavy stuff (plus camper weight)
   I am running 35x12.50R17 with +18 offset to maximize tire volume without having to lift or trim, but am considering a 1" coil spacer to increase my compression travel to 4" ('17-'19 up travel is 3" at stock ride height). Thoughts?
   Stock leaf springs and coil springs ride TERRIBLE!!! I'd get rid of them regardless of anything else you do. They ride so rough. You'd be amazed at the difference even with stock shocks and better springs. But doing everything together is a world of difference. Regardless of if you like to drive fast or slow. Although, it's hard to not drive fast with proper suspension....

 

[knutsCO]

Yes, we air down as low as conditions and anticipated speeds will allow. Pole saw is definitely handy and ours gets a lot of use. I'm sure we'll continue to use it with the pop-up, just hopefully not as frequently as is required with the Laredo... ?

Thanks for the feedback on your suspension set-up. Sounds like you have been very happy with it overall despite the need for a re-valve to optimize damping performance.

What is the total available compression travel that you have with the Carli diesel springs and your bump stop configuration? I understand that the Carli springs provide a much more compliant ride due to the lower spring rate, but I'm very curious about how much real up travel the "leveling" springs provide.
We gained compression travel. We are ~5" to the front bump stop. Front bump stop is lowered 1" to limit to travel to avoid bottoming out the shocks and allow room for the 37s at full compression (no rubbing).

Ahh, ok... I watched your 37" tire clearance video again and could see that the Carli bump drop was installed when you were testing. Makes sense, I had just assumed that your testing was done without the drop...

 

[Superduty]

As with any truck build project… there is always more to do! Here’s the latest changes we made to the Ford Super Duty:

- Fox 2.5 Resi DSC Rear Shocks (tuned by Accutune) – Icon Shock Boots
- Rear shock mounts chopped for 2” increase in ground clearance

How difficult is it to adjust the DSC on your rear shocks? Not much clearance to the bottom of the bed. And I suppose you cant see the dial, but have to do it by feel.

On the Accutune www site they show the replacement Fox shocks for the Fords as having the DSC pointing downward which makes a lot more sense.

Edit: I spoke to Fox and Accutune. The photo on the Accutune www site is not correct for the Superduty rear shocks.

 

[montypower]

Correct. Our rear shocks have the adjusters on top. Plenty of hand space. But can't see. Done by feel. Not real convenient. But we only adjust with the camper removed (not often). If the adjusters do get moved to the bottom it would help but still awkward.

Looks like the market is moving to "cab control" electronic adjustment. This will be sweet but much more complicated... and expense. and cost. Not sure if I'd upgrade. These work fine and infrequent to adjust (but nice being able to adjust).

 

[eyemgh]

Correct. Our rear shocks have the adjusters on top. Plenty of hand space. But can't see. Done by feel. Not real convenient. But we only adjust with the camper removed (not often). If the adjusters do get moved to the bottom it would help but still awkward.

Looks like the market is moving to "cab control" electronic adjustment. This will be sweet but much more complicated... and expense. and cost. Not sure if I'd upgrade. These work fine and infrequent to adjust (but nice being able to adjust).

And possibly less reliable. I talked to Carli, and the shop that’ll be doing my suspension. He does both Carli and Icon. Both have e versions. No one seems enthused. As the shop guy said, “wires break and you’ll never turn the knobs. Stick with reliable.“ We went with Carli tuned Kings, a Carli/Deaver leaf pack, and a Fox 2.0 stabilizer.

 

[mk216v]

And possibly less reliable. I talked to Carli, and the shop that’ll be doing my suspension. He does both Carli and Icon. Both have e versions. No one seems enthused. As the shop guy said, “wires break and you’ll never turn the knobs. Stick with reliable.“ We went with Carli tuned Kings, a Carli/Deaver leaf pack, and a Fox 2.0 stabilizer.

K.I.S.S.

 

[montypower]

After less than 2 years and 21k miles the front passenger Fox 2.5” DCS shocks was seeping a bit of oil. We were planning to revalve all four shocks and decided to rebuild them at the same time. The shocks were purchased through AccutuneOffroad.com. They provide custom shock valving for your application. Plus, they will revalve the shocks FREE (one time) if the shocks need further tuning.

In our case, the shocks worked perfectly while loaded with the adjusters turned up 2 clicks. However, the ride was a bit firm when unloaded and the adjusters turned to zero. I wanted to slightly reduce the valving to allow a more compliant ride unloaded with the same performance while loaded with the adjusters turned up.

Here’s the rebuild process:
1 – Remove Shocks (2 hrs)
2 – Box & Ship Shocks to AccuTune
3 – Wait... (estimated 4 weeks – our turn around was 1 week)
4 – Install Shocks (2hrs)

All Performance Shocks (including King, Icon, Radflo) are rebuildable which is great considering they cost $650+ per shock. However, our basic rebuild cost was $160/shock (including shipping) plus we had to wait for them to be rebuilt.

I’ve considered buying a second set of FOX shocks to avoid “down time” waiting for the rebuild. But that is an expensive option! Instead I purchased a cheap set of ProComp shocks (proper length) that could be used during the rebuild. You can’t beat the performance FOX shocks offer but they are spendy!

Here’s the FOX ATS Steering Stabilizer mount drop info:

The Part# for the stabilizer hasn’t changed — We made a change to the hardware kit to include the reducer/spacer and longer bolt. If a customer is ordering a new stabilizer its already included and if a customer already has the stabilizer and needs the hardware we have been supplying no charge. I’ve listed the spacer, bolt and washer #’s below if you need it.

Reducer – 213-01-586
Washer - 018-05-065
Bolt – 018-04-057

 

[tacollie]

The Part# for the stabilizer hasn’t changed — We made a change to the hardware kit to include the reducer/spacer and longer bolt. If a customer is ordering a new stabilizer its already included and if a customer already has the stabilizer and needs the hardware we have been supplying no charge. I’ve listed the spacer, bolt and washer #’s below if you need it.

Reducer – 213-01-586
Washer - 018-05-065
Bolt – 018-04-057

Thanks for that info. I've been meaning to address this issue for a while ?

 

[Tex68w]

Rocking the ATS 2.0 steering stabilizer on my RAM and it’s the best I’ve ever had. Definitely worth the money.

 

[Superduty]

@montypower can you tell us what about the original tuning was not quite perfect? I feel like I would never know if it "could" be better.

With the boots installed, how did you know you had a leaking shock?

Please keep us posted on the new valving/tuning. Did you revalve/tune all the shocks?

 

[Superduty]

Here’s the FOX ATS Steering Stabilizer mount drop info:

The Part# for the stabilizer hasn’t changed — We made a change to the hardware kit to include the reducer/spacer and longer bolt. If a customer is ordering a new stabilizer its already included and if a customer already has the stabilizer and needs the hardware we have been supplying no charge. I’ve listed the spacer, bolt and washer #’s below if you need it.

Reducer – 213-01-586
Washer - 018-05-065
Bolt – 018-04-057

Here is some info on the ATS drop mount...and some issues folks have run into.

 

[montypower]

@montypower can you tell us what about the original tuning was not quite perfect? I feel like I would never know if it "could" be better.

With the boots installed, how did you know you had a leaking shock?

Please keep us posted on the new valving/tuning. Did you revalve/tune all the shocks?

The original tuning was perfect when loaded with the adjusters turned up 2 clicks. We never adjusted them up over 2 clicks. When we were unloaded with the adjusters turned to zero the valving was a bit firm. We wanted to reduce the valving to allow for a more compliant ride unloaded.

The updated valving is much improved. LOVE THESE SHOCKS! We drove through a wash yesterday and it was like butter. At the same speed in our (stock) Tacoma it will bottom out several times and bounce all over. Will see how far the adjusters will need to be turned up while loaded.

Just check the bottom of the shock and lift the shock boot up a bit.

Yes, revalved + rebuilt all the shocks. Hopefully, will get 2+ years from this rebuild. But regardless these shocks are worth having for the performance!

 

[HowardH]

You’ve done a lot of research and gained a lot of knowledge. Have you ever looked into exhaust or engine brakes for gas trucks such as yours?