Snorkel Wars

[DaveInDenver]

I've got to agree with GT. I've done thousands of miles in Africa including hundreds (I'm not joking) that included bull dust or fesh fesh, and my air cleaner (K&N in a 110) wasn't close to capacity when I cleaned it (with no snorkel). And I only cleaned it twice in 30,000 miles. The argument that you get cleaner air is dependant on what type of car you are in and where the air pick up is. In the 300tdi 110 it is in a very good place for convoy work. For other makes, I don't know. It's one of those arguments that seems to make sense for everyone, but every car maker puts the air pickup in a different place, and will get different air flow. There is no blanket statement that will work for everyone.

Snorkels for me would be for dust primarily. The air intake on my Hilux is behind the left side headlight, which is about 6 inches higher than the stock ECU location and alternator, probably a good foot higher than the starter. I've raised my axle breathers to spots higher than the air intake, so my low point is really the tailpipe. Although since the bend in the intermediate pipe between the muffler and tailpipe goes up and around the axle, the real low point is actually roughly equal to the top of my tires.

BTW, I put in a K&N right after buying my truck and around 10K miles later when I tore into the engine to replace the timing chain, noticed that my intake was filthy with a fine dust. I started doing used oil analysis and was surprised at how much silica they found (around 65 ppm). That level is usually considered severe duty and usually means really short oil change intervals. I typically follow ~4K intevals on Castrol Syntec.

I promptly went back to stock Toyota filters. I now get around 5 to 10 ppm silica. The K&N certainly didn't clog like my stock filters do. But, it appeared that the reason it wasn't dirty is that it does not do a particularly good job at stopping the fine dust. As it is I replace the filter about 2 or 3 times a year, which I'd rather do than keep ingesting dirt. I recommend to everyone I know that uses a stock-fit K&N to have an analysis done (really everyone should do them periodically). Compare the silica numbers with a good traditional filter (cheap thin-paper Frams don't count) and a K&N, since silica is just a measure of how much external dirt is being sucked into the engine.

To be fair, I also noticed that the stock filters fit more snug into the air box than the K&N, so I could have been sucking dust around the edges of the filter, too. But I'm careful to wipe a coating of grease on the frame before putting a filter in, so I'm not sure that I was getting all that much coming around the edges.

 

[goodtimes]

To those stating problems with dust.....I have never, and I mean NEVER had to clean dust out of any of the air boxes on any of my vehicles. I'm not saying no one else has either, because obviously I have not driven every make/model of vehicle under every condition...not even close! But it is a problem I have never encountered.

But since we are on the subject, and several people have mentioned K&N air filters.....I used to run one of these in my chevy. The problem I always had was keeping it wet with oil. There was enough dust that it would literally dry it out so I would have to clean and re-oil it on a fairly regular basis (about every 4 - 6 weeks). Obviously, everyones results will vary, but it is something to keep an eye on. I no longer use these filters. High quality paper filters is the way to go IMO.

 

[HenryJ]

...I have never, and I mean NEVER had to clean dust out of any of the air boxes on any of my vehicles...

If you get up my way in the summer months, I'll have to take you on a Dry Creek Expedition. The clay up there forms a very fine powder that flows like water. There are places on the trail it can be two feet deep. This can easily drown an intake in only one pass. Bow waves just don't work the same for clay/silt flows since it beomes an airbourne hazard. You do have to maintain speed or be swallowed by the cloud. Oh, and being the leader is better than being led

If a snorkel were available that would work for my truck , I would have one. Cleaner air would be nice.

 

[articulate]

Mark - this is too darn funny!!! I was having this exact conversation with my wife at the campfire last night too!

We were up in central Alberta and were on a bunch of serverly dusty road, along with a few side trips where we - let's just say - got the truck a bit dirty in some mud holes on route.

We agreed at the end of it all that snorkels are FARKLE. In case you don't know farkle is, it is Functional Sparkle. It's a motorcycling term, but it applies well to us sometimes. Snorkels are functional - we all know that they do work in certain circumstance. But, and maybe more importantly, they just look darn cool!

I don't care what anyone says... I want one.

Well, I'm glad you found this topic funny, too. And I share your thoughts: I don't care what anyone says... I want one.

Otherwise, I'm going to kick back and watch the battle-of-the-dust-theory. I didn't intend a super serious conversation about these things, but it certainly brought out the opinions. :1888fbbd:

 

[OverlandZJ]

I went wheeling with CShontz from this board years ago, we were at Paragon adventure park in winter. The week prior brought an ice storm and heavy snow.

The day we were wheeling was warmer and we ran a trail called Pipeline that included a small stream crossing. Stream was not so small that day with runoff and melting. We dipped into the stream and followed it maybe 40 yards downstream where i had water to my headlight. My air intake is behind the headlight.

I had just installed a new reman'd engine. Once out of the streambed i popped the hood and there was water on my airfilter. I ordered a Snorkel soon after thinking it was cheaper than replacing an engine again.

On the dust...i have logged many miles in Northern Maine on the logging roads usually following another vehicle (Cowboy here) and have not had an issue with dust clogging my K&N. But i'm sure the silt out your way and in pics i'v seen of Baja area are much more severe.

Snorkel and Rain.....the design of my ARB has a low 180 degree bend in the hose that is supposed to collect any water from traveling in rain. I'v always wondered if i should turn the intake head around in a heavy downpour?

Enjoying this Thread....most snorkel threads on the Jeep forums equate a snorkel to mall posing.

:smiley_drive:

 

[Desertdude]

the snorkel is nothing and not complete until you have installed the Snokel switch and Snorkel light...


Snorkel = more dust and bugs in the filter - plain and simple eepwall:

chicks dig the Snorkel - chicks dig Guitar - need I say more? :rockon:













....now where is that Snorkel smiley




:::

 

[BajaXplorer]

Snorkle...Schmorkle
I won't do water so deep that I need a snorkle. I mean water sooo deep that I REALLY need a snorkle.
If the person in front of me is making a lot of dust...I fall back some.
I carry extra air filters and change them when necessary.
The K&N I tried for a while has been sitting in the garage for a couple of years. Any of you are welcome to it.
I hate it when I get sucked in to responding to threads like this.
BX

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

OK..OK.....

I got sucked into the thread!

I just hope I never end up like THIS GUY!

I love my truck too much to do something this silly!

So maybe if I DON'T have a Snorkle........I won't get sucked in!:sombrero:


See puke green old Ford Bronco....stuck in Verde River with door open and "a river runs through it"!:smilies27

 

[+ d]

Like many accessories we put on our trucks, 95% of the time 95% of us will never really need it. But the inherent idea behind being prepared is having stuff you probably won't need, but might. The trick is to not let upgrades (winch, locker, snorkel, etc) fool your ego into situations that you shouldn't be in.

Functionality aside, I personally think they look cool, but it would be a hard sell for the wife and on this particular truck I would have a hard time cutting a hole my fender. So for now if I can have a snorkel on the jeep I'll have to settle for a Snork...

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

The trick is to not let upgrades (winch, locker, snorkel, etc) fool your ego into situations that you shouldn't be in.

Very good point!

 

[Scott Brady]

Snorkel use depends on the application. Traditional diesels and direct ignition gas motors are well sealed.

I have driven my Tacoma with water well over the hood without issue because of the Snorkel. I have been forced (by the Policia) to drive down a river in Batopilas Mexico because of an election celebration that closed the town.

Batopilas River Crossing Video The shallowest of three crossings.

There is no question in my mind that a snorkel is appropriate and required for what I do.

Now the dust stuff.... I am not convinced of the standard snorkels effectiveness.

I should also change my comments on the snorkel install review Wil posted regarding the Cyclone prefilter. They work great!!!!! Even well above 120 kph. They catch lots of dust and should be cleaned daily.

 

[OutbacKamper]

There is no question in my mind that a snorkel is appropriate and required for what I do.

:iagree:

In Australia even the buses have snorkles! When we were in Oz, the creeks and rivers were quite low, however when Sven and Magdelana (www.xxxpedition) crossed some of the same water the next year (after a much wetter and later than normal wet season) the water was over their hood. In fact in Cape York they had to duct tape the doors shut inorder keep the water out of their Jeep!
The bow wave theory is great, but does not always work. As previously stated, if you get stuck or have to stop for any reason you are hooped. Also some crossings require a very low speed that does nor create a bow wave (ie: Cockatoo Creek in Cape York, were you have to steer around large underwater potholes)
Like many modifications discussed on this forum there are some who do it for looks and some who do it for function.

Cheers
Mark

 

[cshontz]

Snorkels serve a purpose - I don't think there's any disputing it. Although, I think relatively few truly need to take advantage of its benefits. Whether one performs additional waterproofing or not, a snorkel still helps to prevent catastrophic engine failure. I am pro-being-prepared, thus I am pro-snorkel.

That was good times, John! :friday:

 

[upcruiser]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I noticed a difference in dust collection in air box of my 80 with the snorkel. I'm with the "better to have it when you need it" group here. There are some water crossings in the region that I live in that had my old 60 series up to its headlights and made me nervous. When I built up my 80 I decided, for the money, it was a wise investment to have. Yes, there is definately a bling factor and I am always surprised by just how much attention it gets. You'd think by now, with how many you see on 4X4's that the oooh factor would go away, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Scott Brady]

Of all the snorkle topics, I'm finally going to respond to one.

What about your Chiva trip with John? Didn't you have water in the airbox?


As a more general comment to this thread:

IMHO, if you seek these things out (remote travel), or drive in areas that require deep fords, get the snorkel. A dead motor (no spark) is entirely different than a hydrolocked motor.

To some, a severe challenge requires them to turn around. To others, the challenge is appreciated, or part of a competition. Figure out what group you are in and build the truck appropriately.