OJ winch tests.

toyrunner95

Explorer
I have used almost every winch that you have tested, and I can honestly say that I would NEVER buy anything but a WARN. Now I don't mean to be biased toward a company or brand and take the stance that it's "all american so its the best" mentality. But Ramseys, Mile Markers, Champions, Huskies have ALL failed me in the past. ALL! And i'm not talking once or twice and I had it rebuilt. I mean I used it once and it didn't work again so I sent it back to the manufacturer and got a NEW one (not rebuilt) and it crapped out right out of the box! 3 winches at least twice for each.

My Warn x8000i I bought USED and have abused the hell out of that thing with NO problems! NONE! NADA! ZILCH! Long, hard, over rated pulls. Yes over heated it a little, but nontheless it worked. I have had NO problems with a WARN, If I was in the middle of BFE without a WARN I might as well use a come along.

I hate to tell ya Scott, but i think there were some problems with your tests. ARB bumpers don't use a warn mount and perhaps I may have jumped to a conclusion about the mounts, BUT depending on the bumper most ARBs mount feet forward so there is paralell stress on the bolts instead of perpindicular.

In every manual for anything it says use only product X brand stuff this product. I think that rule should have applied.
 
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Antichrist

Expedition Leader
But Ramseys, Mile Markers, Champions, Huskies have ALL failed me in the past. ALL! And i'm not talking once or twice and I had it rebuilt. I mean I used it once and it didn't work again so I sent it back to the manufacturer and got a NEW one (not rebuilt) and it crapped out right out of the box! 3 winches at least twice for each.
Sounds like user error. ;)
Or really crappy luck.

I've had an 8274 I've used the hell out of since I bought it in '75. I did burn the motor up once winching 3 vehicles at the same time, plus mine, up an icy hill.

But I also have a bought used Ramsey RE10000 that I've used and abused for about 7 years now. No problems at all with it. Always worked flawlessly for me.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
Winches should be tested with synthetic line
I don't know. A really good winch comparison test was done by one of the off-road magazines back in the 70's using wire rope. They did it in a safe and controlled manner, even to the point of breaking the rope. It was done in a lab though, removing any environmental variables.

I liked the article, though honestly I'd prefer a comparison of the same type from different mfg, then the winner of each type compared. Much more expensive testing to do though.

A couple of things missing from the test.
1. I'd like to have seen more amp draw comparison. Peak startup is good, as is average, but I think amp draw at stall (or at least at rated load) is a good value to know.
2. A bit more focus on the controllers. I notice that Warn has made a really stupid design change in their controllers, going to a proprietary connector (which is a disservice to customers). The other, even worse, is putting the male connector on the hand control, and the female on the winch. This means that in rough environments, when the winch connector cover comes off, or is lost, the holes for the pins will fill with crud and make it difficult to connect the controller. :Wow1:

Hard to believe I paid $400 new for my 8274 when I bought it.
 
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T

Totenkopf

Guest
My example is if you compare a Werner 20,000lb winch to a 16,000 warn then the warn looks like a little kids toy and weighs probably a quarter of the Werner. There is no comparison in performance, the Werner would literally winch you around the world pull by pull without giving up.

Rob
Really think you can compare a PTO winch to a 12v???
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Was the same Ramsey mount used for both tests, and if so I'm guessing it obviously failed during the Warn test? Was any consideration given to the fact the prior testing could have damaged the plate on some macro level, causing premature failure for a later test?

Overall I think the test was great, designing a "end-all" winch test would require hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of time. Given the restraints OJ was working under (time, money, manpower), I think they did as good and better as any one would suspect.
 

Robthebrit

Explorer
Really think you can compare a PTO winch to a 12v???

its not a pto, its hydraulic. Even so, while the a pto drive adds some bulk the size of the unit, the planet gears themselves are in a different league and the Werner winch is not rated for much more. The major difference is there are standards the German winches have to be made to, in the US they can print anything on a box as long as they are willing to defend it in a lawsuit. I'll state again that my opinion is that all the domestic winches are rubbish, there is as much marketing as engineering. Why don't they rate them for the worst case pull? Its all marketing, why rate the winch as 8000 when we can rate it for 12000? There are no decent winch makers left in the US for recovery winches because people like warn have more money to spend.

When you are stuck in the middle of nowhere its all about knowing the limits, doesn't matter if the limits are good or bad you just need to know them. The marketing that was printed on the box is not going to help you.

Rob
 
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toyrunner95

Explorer
PTO and hydraulic are the same thing arent they? The power take of turns drivetrain motion into hydraulic power through a pump into the winch. Thats why they use hoses to hook up. Right?
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
PTO and hydraulic winches are different. PTO winches use a driveshaft from (usually) the transfer case to power the gearset.

The Ramsey mount did not fail at all. The Warn winch mounted to it failed.

It's interesting, but essentially irrelevant that some magazine successfully used steel cable for a winch test 20 or 30 years ago. The fact is, today we have access to synthetic rope, which is safer, so that's what we used.
 

CharlieV

Adventurer
Since it seems like the contributors to OJ are reading this thread I wanted to take the opportunity to say thanks. After having read the OJ article and now this thread all I want to say is thanks OJ for a great test. I am planning on buying a winch this spring and the article has definitely influenced my decision. I think the people conducting the test did the best they could with the resources at hand to give the readers valuable data to make choices with. What a great publication. Thanks again!
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
Charlie, thanks for your comments!

I hate to tell ya Scott, but i think there were some problems with your tests.

Toyrunner95, you still have not backed up your assertions with any kind of valid criticism, just facile Monday morning quarterbacking and purely anecdotal personal prejudices. You claim exhaustive winching experience, yet do not even know the difference between a hydraulic and PTO winch. Scott addressed every one of your initial criticisms, yet you cling to them. You misread the review, as betrayed by your comment about the Ramsey mount failing, which did not occur. We welcome thoughtful critique of anything that appears in Overland Journal, but you're treading close to mere grandstanding by continuing your negativity without, so far, a shred of valid evidence.

The fact that we used synthetic rope on every winch did not put any of them at a disadvantage, any more than using the same tire on several review vehicles would do so. That leveled the field, it didn't skew it. The Warn 12.0 cannot be used to its full capacity with synthetic rope. That is a downside of that winch, and perfectly fair for us to point out. Wire is less safe, and negates a chunk of the 12.0's weight advantage. It was also fair of us to point out how difficult it is for a consumer to discover that limitation by normal perusal of Warn's material.

Warn was extremely responsive throughout the test, and in fact indulged in less criticism of our methods than you have. The replacement 12.0 will be mounted on our soon-to-be-received long-term Wrangler, on which it will be given a thorough workout.

Incidentally, someone else here suggested that the testers picked the winches they were most familiar with to win. Not so - the Ramsey was new to all of us, and it not only aced the value award, but came near to winning the entire review.
 
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Bill Beers

Explorer
Incidentally, someone else here suggested that the testers picked the winches they were most familiar with to win. Not so - the Ramsey was new to all of us, and it not only aced the value award, but came near to winning the entire review.

Hi Jonathan,

At the end of the day, as I read the scores, wasn't it the Warn 12.0 in first and the 8274/Ramsey for a tie at second?

-Bill
 

bigreen505

Expedition Leader
I had one comment on the winch test I was going to send via PM, but since we have this thread going ...

First, that was an amazing test and it stands as a testament to yourselves, your readers and the overlanding industry.

Second, I'm not surprised that the synthetic winch line snapped. Synthetic lines snap all the time for seemingly no reason. Don't paint me as being anti-synthetic or pro-steel, as that is not the case at all. I have see synthetic lines snap at a fraction of their max working load for no apparent reason (as well as good reasons like UV exposure, tight bends, abrasion). I have seen synthetic lines hold strong well beyond their max working load in situations that defy logic. And I have seen all that from rope that came off the same spool. I have witnessed thin spectra let go under 150 lb. load and I had pretty strong piece of vectran blow with about a 300 lb. load (should have been good to about 4,000 lb.).

All this to say, synthetic lines can and will break. Try to expect it and be prepared for it. Chances are if a line breaks seemingly randomly you can cut out about a foot on either side of the break, splice and be on your way.

The fact that in your tests the line in the stall test snapped right at the drum is expected and turning a line will weaken it (it will be weakest at the turn). The fact that it broke seemingly unprovoked at just over half its working load is very surprising, but perhaps not unusual.

The types of lines that companies are using for winch lines are old technology, tried and proven. If you want to see the latest greatest crazy stuff look on sailboats -- everything from high performance dinghies to skiffs to round the world boats. I assure you, the potential danger and damage from a shroud letting go in the middle of the southern ocean far surpasses the likely danger of a broken winch line (particularly on with a damper on it), and still it is very rare to find any metal cable on and racing sailboat.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
Bill, the empirical results did put the 12.0 first, as you said.

However, as you know, empirical results are only one facet of overall performance. Two of the 12.0's high empirical finishes resulted from its impressive weight-to-power and weight-to-line-speed ratio. But was we saw, there are legitimate questions as to the reserve strength of the 12.0's construction, so those finishes come with a caveat, and that figured into the conclusions.

On the other hand, look at the poor empirical performance of the Husky. Yet it is inarguably one of the most reliable and durable winches on the market, and deserves more consideration than those low numbers would suggest.
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
...The Ramsey mount did not fail at all. The Warn winch mounted to it failed...

The article was a bit ambiguous on this point. Chris mentioned that Warn believed the mount was the culprit and Scott mentioned that the Warn wouldn't be a bad option if using their mount, leading readers (at least me) to believe the Ramsey mount was the culprit or at least the contributing factor?

Chris mentioned earlier that the winch case broke, pulling the winch forward and damaging the mount, but if the winch deck became warped our tweak either by the current testing or the winch previous, it could have led to the cracked case, chicken or egg.

Again though, great article I re-read it last night and really enjoyed the detail and the test procedures designed. :cool:
 

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