OJ winch tests.

toyrunner95

Explorer
I just received the latest issue of Overland Journal and I have to voice my opinion about the winch test segments. First off, good job on reporting accurately and honestly. That is one thing that I really do enjoy about this publication. The honesty and integrity that go into the tests.

However I am disappointed on the tests. I don't think they were accurate and there are a few reasons why.

1. The winch plates. Every winch should be used with the recommended winch plate. This is obviously proven when the warn 12k broke the mount. I have used the warn 12k with the recommended winch plate and had no problems. There should be 6 bolts that hold it in, 4 on the feet and another 2 on the face. This keeps the winch from torquing the plate and disintegrating as the test showed.

2. The winch line. I have a serious problem with using a synthetic line especially when the instructions say not to! The test should have been done with the stock cables, for a true honest test they should be tested as factory! not modified! Now this is not to say that the synthetic line is not safe. I agree with the safety aspects and the weight factor. But it's unfair to show a perfectly good winch crap out when A. it was mounted wrong, and B. it had a line that wasn't recommended.

I am not the type that is brand specific when it comes to parts and knockoffs. But i will use a few quotes from the same issue to illustrate my point of accuracy and integrity.

"A company that replicates another's product to perfection has still stolen some one else's work." Jonathan Hansen Executive Editor. (pg.10, paragraph 1) Warn was the originator of the winch. The Mo.8274 was the first model ever to be produced for the civilian market.

"Each new modification adds...complexity to a platform that factory engineers spent thousands of hours designing." Scott Brady Publisher (pg.81, paragraph 1) Then why did you use an insufficient winch plate and a winch line that was not recommended? If they spent so many hours developing this product don't you think it will work as it is?

I again would like to say that this publication is great and I am glad that you were honest. You did say that you used the Ramsey mount and that WARN immediately sent you a new winch and plate to test and it passed. But I still believe that there were flaws in your testing.
 
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I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
While I haven't read through it yet, I do know that no test is either perfect or complete. I'd be interested to see these same units tested 5, 10 or 15 years from now after they've been scorched by the sun, frozen well beyond 0 degrees F, submerged in a water hole and gone through 100 or so close to max capacity pulls. I would expect these name brand products to perform as advertised right out of the box but real world, longer term results are what I'm interested in. I'm still expecting the OJ article to be much better than the usual gum store magazine "review".
Jason T.
 

TEJASYOTA

Adventurer
Received my magazine Friday.
Great write up...did a quick read....yep suprises during the test...both good and bad.
 

gjackson

FRGS
I agree completely that no real world test will be perfect, but I think you are using a little much 20/20 hindsight in your analysis.

1. The winch plates. Every winch should be used with the recommended winch plate. This is obviously proven when the warn 12k broke the mount. I have used the warn 12k with the recommended winch plate and had no problems. There should be 6 bolts that hold it in, 4 on the feet and another 2 on the face. This keeps the winch from torquing the plate and disintegrating as the test showed.

See the mounting page from the Warn Endurance 12.0 instruction manual:

http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/images/1285/79539_A1_read.pdf

Notice that it states the need for 4 (x4) bolts, not 6. If I had just bought this winch and was looking at the instructions, why would I think it needed 6? Even the diagrams don't indicate a spot for 2 more bolts.

On the synthetic line, I can find no place in the instructions where it specifically says that synthetic line cannot be used with this winch. No where. Sure, if you talk to Warn they might tell you that, but if that manual doesn't say it, then what are we to do?

The beauty of a test like this is that it brings out these failures which no one would have expected, but which can happen very easily in the real world. I think the test was a little too easy on Warn. If I'd followed the instruction manual and then was bogged in the middle of Algeria on a trans-sahara expedition with my life depending on that winch and it came apart before it even reached 12K, I'd be pissed. Up until I died. Very pissed.

Just my 2c

cheers
 

toyrunner95

Explorer
I agree that no test will be the best. The 12k I have used in the past DOES have 6 bolts holding it in. BUT its is not an Endurance, that must be the new one. It has the 4 feet bolts and then 2 on the fairlead that connect into the housing as well. Furthermore the mounting plate is very different from the flat Jeep or trailer mount. Mine has a large front plate that is ridiculously heavy.
 

ginericLC

Adventurer
My only real gripe about this article are the pricing. None of those winches cost as much as the article lists them at on the street. You can get an 8274 for $1429 without even working hard. The V10 can be had for $820 or less. I think if part of the test is going to be value versus cost real costs should be used.

And in the end I think the winches that won are those the editors are most familiar with. I'm not saying that their conclusions are wrong. But it definitely seems biased towards the winches they have experience with.

I'll admit I'm the same way. I could look at two computers and one could have better specs on paper and cheaper and still a reputable company, I would pick the one I was familiar with and had experience with.
 
T

Totenkopf

Guest
Just great...that's the front winch on my new rig that is just getting completed...and I'm going to run synthetic line too.
 

Bill Beers

Explorer
If I'd followed the instruction manual and then was bogged in the middle of Algeria on a trans-sahara expedition with my life depending on that winch and it came apart before it even reached 12K, I'd be pissed. Up until I died. Very pissed.

Just my 2c

cheers

You'd be pissed, and you'd be using wire rope.

That the instruction manual spends two pages talking about wire rope and none talking about synthetic line is a big flag to me that wire rope should be used.

W/regard to the mounting plate, if indeed it requires the Warn part, than it should be specified. All the instructions say is "Smooth and flat, thickness = 1/4" (6.4 mm)."
 

toyrunner95

Explorer
Well if anything it was a good demonstration of what NOT to do. I'm not against the tests, all the others were great. But that one had some problems.
 

taalow

New member
2. The winch line. I have a serious problem with using a synthetic line especially when the instructions say not to! The test should have been done with the stock cables, for a true honest test they should be tested as factory! not modified! Now this is not to say that the synthetic line is not safe. I agree with the safety aspects and the weight factor. But it's unfair to show a perfectly good winch crap out when A. it was mounted wrong, and B. it had a line that wasn't recommended.



That's the truth. but wondering too, why Warn doesn't recommend a part that it actually sells. What does it mean?
 

Scott Brady

Founder
I rarely respond to these types of posts, but a few assumptions by the OP are incorrect.

1. The winch plates. Every winch should be used with the recommended winch plate.

I completely disagree with this, and based on two very simple realities.

1. Winches are RARELY mounted to the bumper or mount supplied by the winch manufacturer. For example, ARB bumpers, Safari Gard, and the dozen other bumper manufacturers.

2. The Ramsey winch pulled nearly a thousand pounds past the 12.0 on the same mount.

3. The Ramsey mount never broke, the winch did.

2. The winch line. I have a serious problem with using a synthetic line especially when the instructions say not to!

There is nothing in the instructions that say not to use synthetic line. All winch instruction manuals for winches delivered with wire rope refer only to wire rope.

Winches should be tested with synthetic line, as it is the most safe and environmentally friendly option (rock gouging, etc.). The vast majority of overlanders run synthetic line.

There is nothing in the 12.0 instructions or on their site that say not to run synthetic line. We found this out only after calling Warn.

"Each new modification adds...complexity to a platform that factory engineers spent thousands of hours designing." Scott Brady Publisher (pg.81, paragraph 1) Then why did you use an insufficient winch plate and a winch line that was not recommended? If they spent so many hours developing this product don't you think it will work as it is?

Why do you say the Ramsey mount in insufficient? We clearly demonstrated that the mount worked with the Ramsey winch to 12,180 lbs.

But I still believe that there were flaws in your testing.

Please provide specifics of the flaws in the testing.

I am traveling in Mexico right now, and will not likely be checking this thread again any time soon, so I apologize in advance if I do not reply before April!
 

Robthebrit

Explorer
I think the test was very fair and unbiased, the failures showed what can happen in the real world. I also think OJ did a fine job in printing exactly what happened without worrying about recourse from the manufacturers.

I personally think all the small domestic winches are over rated and I am somewhat surprised there were not more failures. These domestic winches might save you one or twice but if you need to use it over and over again for a maximum pull then they will fail in the end - this is not a good end scenario when you are in the middle of nowhere with a very heavy truck.

My example is if you compare a Werner 20,000lb winch to a 16,000 warn then the warn looks like a little kids toy and weighs probably a quarter of the Werner. There is no comparison in performance, the Werner would literally winch you around the world pull by pull without giving up.

Rob
 

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