FrontRunner G-Wagens: The ultimate expedition G

39Ronin

Adventurer
I would agree that the Jeep seems like the logical choice at first, but the G is way of overbuilt in comparison. It comes down to reliability, and the Jeep just doesn't have my confidence. For the record I have owned a Jeep and now I own an old school G. A good example of how well the G is built, even the military style hitch is drop forged. I have a friend who is a heavy duty mechanic and former Jeep owner and he agreed the G was built really well, it isn't always the things you can see at a glance but things like the spline count and percison on the drive shafts ect...

All in all as daily driver a diesel JEEP 4 door Rubicon would be an awesome choice but as an expedtion platform I would give the edge to the G.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
One way the Gelandewagen has the edge over the Jeep
is in Mercedes' world-wide network of dealers, mechanics
and supplies. The G-wagen has been in service for 30 years,
so it's likely that there are mechanics who have some
experience with the vehicle.

That said, the diesel V6 is relatively new, and it's not used
in all countries yet. So if you have an engine problem in
Outbackistan, you may have to wait for parts.

Chip Haven
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
All in all as daily driver a diesel JEEP 4 door Rubicon would be an awesome choice but as an expedtion platform I would give the edge to the G.

I tend to agree with this generally. Where the G is tougher is with respect to the body/coach work. The JK/J8 is flimsy in that regard (relatively speaking). The G likely has a stronger frame.

Drivetrain-wise I'm not certain. The J8 has a new style Dana 44 front (larger and strong than "traditional" Dana 44 but smaller than a Dana 50) and a Dana 60 rear IIRC. I'd suggest that is comparable to the Merc axles. Likewise the transfer case (NV241OR) is decent - if that is what the J8 uses.

I'm not certain about the transmission and engine though.

All this said, for the price how much "bulletproofness" do you really need?

As good as the G is IMNSHO consumers are being raked over the coals price-wise just because it has the three pointed star on it. The basic design as been in production since the '70s. The price of these trucks should have been dropped eons ago. IMO a full load G is worth about $50-$60k in todays dollars based upon what is actually in the truck.

$0.02
 

Scott Brady

Founder
I own three JKs (well, between the businesses and myself) and a 463 G Wagen. The G-Wagen is surprisingly a very different truck than the Jeep. There is a stately nature to the G, with its massive doors and interior qualities. The seats are world class, even ten years old. On the trail, the Jeep is better, with much longer suspension travel and better turning radius. The transfer case gearing also improves control. The swaybar disconnect transforms the JK and nearly makes the front locker just a bragging point (I can actually not think of a time I have engaged them).

I am a huge fan of the Wrangler, and think it is the best wagon available for expedition travel in the US. I am going to look into diesel converting one of mine soon.

The G-wagen is a wonderful truck as well, but extremely expensive in comparison (mine has a sticker price of $127,000). I would love the more simple diesel models. What I love most about the G-Klass is the obscure nature of it. The boxy styling, military legacy and hand-built quality. It is the defender for people that want (near) Toyota reliability.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Very interesting....

Few points....

On the Stauns vs Hutchinson. The group I wheel with has gone back and forth over the last few years. Both have there pluses and minuses. Stauns however SHOULD NOT be run at sub 5 psi. Once the tire starts to touch the liner on the Stauns you quickly degrade the liner integrity which leads to a tube failure. I would not advise using the Staun as a runflat unless it was life and death or you like buying new liners. The Hutchinson, while watered down for the public, lets you run any air pressure you want. The tire will eventually fail when pressed in the 0-2 psi range for extended speeds without proper cooling. If you watched your speed i almost venture to say you would get farther on the Hutchinson before the tire would totally fail unlike the Staun where the liner would fail, resulting in a loss of bead control, and the tire falling off the rim shortly after.

J8 vs G. I think the J8 is still slightly unproven to the public where as the G has been around forever. I have been looking VERY hard at the J8 for my next project....it has a LOT of promise and is available in the US. I think the G and J8 share about the same availability in the USA however....overseas I think the G has the advantage by far.

On this project....

-I think overall it was a very well thought out project. While not extreme I think the they are built well. I would have liked to see a more 'Sheppard' style buildup however. I think the rear end of the cars are going to be far too heavy for good off road performance. The weight needs to be concentrated more forward. While they tried to keep things light I think that they are still too heavy in the rear. I would be interested to see what the corner weights are when fully loaded. Again, I think this is a personal opinion, but I think that this is often overlooked in expedition buildups. I will be the first to admit that it is VERY hard to build a fully outfitted expedition vehicle with a front heavy or even weight distribution.

-I like the little things more than the big things. The recessed pocket for the water outlets, the spare tire gascan, Titanium shovel, etc.

-Winch? I would have thought at least one or two of the vehicles should have been equipped as a recovery car. Or have the ability to self recover on all the cars.

-Sand mats/ladders? Africa without any kind of sand ladder, bridging device, etc? While I am not a huge fan of the concept, I would have thought it would have been added to these cars.

-Tire size. How about something with a little more beef and flotation? I guess I am very biased, but it seems like expedition cars always have small tires :)

-I did like the full spare with second spare tire setup. That saves wieght. I would have liked to see some gear or storage that used the inside of the spare tire....

-The fuel transfer system sounds interesting even if I still can't figure out how the entire thing works....any more details?

-A short handled shovel is not a real shovel :) I would suggest a real long handle model....ideal for getting under the car.
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
For all this money were talking about I'd rather import a HZJ7X "Troupie" Better internal space, and an imensly proven Expedition rig all in one.

But yeah, the J8 seems to be a good deal comapred to the G. However I tend to find that when things are all engineered around eachother instead of picking and matching parts from here and there they tend to work better/last longer. Plus as stated, MERC's dealership network etc is global, Jeep's, well not so much.

What tranny is in the J8 Diesel coversion? That would be something else to consider. Plus as far as I know there are no elecxtric lockers for the J8 Axles, just a rear LSD unlike both the G-Wagen and the 70-Series Landcruiser.

That's my .02.

Cheers

Dave
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
Plus as far as I know there are no elecxtric lockers for the J8 Axles, just a rear LSD unlike both the G-Wagen and the 70-Series Landcruiser.

IIRC the axles in the J8 are a standard Dana 60 and a new style JK Dana 44. There are aftermarket options - ARB being the obvious one.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The J8 rear axle is a 'special' D60 with c-clip axles. Its related to the srt10 truck rear axle AND there is an ARB that fits it.
 

Nadir_E

Adventurer
If there was a vehicle that could pull me away from my dream of a Defender 110, *this* would be it! Such a great rig - for those who haven't read the news piece to which Scott refers at the top, get to it!!

-Nadir
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
IIRC the axles in the J8 are a standard Dana 60 and a new style JK Dana 44. There are aftermarket options - ARB being the obvious one.
Yeah, they're not really "standard" D60 and 44's, what I'm refering to mroe is the fact that some think of this is a beef'd up Rubicon when in fact the front diff is open and the rear is an LSD. I know there are options, but off the shelf the two aren't really comparable in terms of equiptment.

The J8 and the G discussed here are certainly both AWESOME trucks. But again, personal prefrence and experience being what it is... I'll take a 70series Cruiser any day, since we're talking about dream trucks. The 110 just doesn't have the strength or Lockers to compete with the 70 series IMO. They're sure neat trucks, but really, aside from the G-Wagen NOTHING compares to the 70Series off the lot...

Biggest thing: the J8 Is so far the only one we can get here in the states (although the G is coming closer to being a reaity and can be bought in some form already)... Ahh internet dreaming isn't it wonderfull...and frustrating...

Cheers

DAve
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
Yeah, they're not really "standard" D60 and 44's, what I'm refering to mroe is the fact that some think of this is a beef'd up Rubicon when in fact the front diff is open and the rear is an LSD. I know there are options, but off the shelf the two aren't really comparable in terms of equiptment.

The J8 and the G discussed here are certainly both AWESOME trucks. But again, personal prefrence and experience being what it is... I'll take a 70series Cruiser any day, since we're talking about dream trucks. The 110 just doesn't have the strength or Lockers to compete with the 70 series IMO. They're sure neat trucks, but really, aside from the G-Wagen NOTHING compares to the 70Series off the lot...

Biggest thing: the J8 Is so far the only one we can get here in the states (although the G is coming closer to being a reaity and can be bought in some form already)... Ahh internet dreaming isn't it wonderfull...and frustrating...

Cheers

DAve

To be honest I'd take a 70 series over both the G and the J8 as well. In fact there is a locked and lifted HZJ73 for sale locally that I'm drooling over. Must resist the siren song....

That said, I still think the J8 axle situation is not a big deal. Buy a J8 for ~$50k and take it somewhere to get ARBs installed for an additional ~$3k versus paying ~$127k for a G. I dunno, doesn't compute for me...
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
To be honest I'd take a 70 series over both the G and the J8 as well. In fact there is a locked and lifted HZJ73 for sale locally that I'm drooling over. Must resist the siren song....

That said, I still think the J8 axle situation is not a big deal. Buy a J8 for ~$50k and take it somewhere to get ARBs installed for an additional ~$3k versus paying ~$127k for a G. I dunno, doesn't compute for me...
Agreed Moose...

as for the J8 I was refering more to the "drive off the lot" factor. Like we say, you've still got to go get some ARB's installed but hey, you've got a Dana60/44 combo so it's a nice axle combo for sure eh. Maybe swap in a rock jock 60 up front to match but hey it's already a NICE truck and most importantly it's GOT A DIESEL!!!!!!

The G-Wagen is just SO expensive that it makes it a tough call. Definatly a GREAT rig and tons of fun along with being built like a tank, but the price!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure HOW you're resisting the "siren-song" of that HZJ73 (is that a longer W/B then a normal 70swb???) I want one SO DAMN BAD!!!!!!!! It's even worse becaue I've gotten to have one at my disposal the whole time I was in Australia so I know what I'm missing... If I were in your shoes I'd probably have bought the thing already.

I litteraly chased down a guy with an HZJ75 Ute here last night to find out HOW he got it here... He was a bit tight lipped but eventualy let go that it was registered as a "Toyota Pick-up" because the naming of the trucks in the 80's and 90's was so ambiguous that the DMV bought it hook line and sinker.

Cheers

Dave
 

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