G-Wagen vs. TLC 70/80

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
I think I'm lost...This sure seems like it should belong in the Land Rover section. O.K., I'll go away now....:peepwall:
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Interestingly, the new 78 series and the 461 G-Klass are closer in price than expected. Both are quite expensive for a work truck. i.e. $50,000

It is the G55 and the older Europa trucks that are way up there on price.
 

G-force

Adventurer
Wow:Wow1:

I just read this whole tread, and it seems to be in order with an apology. After seeing the aftemath of my answer to a simple question, i should have known that the answer was petrol on a fire! Did not know at all that it could turn into this.

Do agree on a lot of the arguments, but it should not come to this form of discussion. As i read trough the end of the tread, it seems to blow over, and that sounds good to me.

And to all of you who were afraid of my disaperance, i was just a bit oqupied for a few weeks. Rather strange to see whats happened during my time off. But i love this forum. It seems to offer me all the info i need, to build me an capable adventure truck, with capable off road abilities. Paralell to the build up of my truck, im planning a small trailer, to pull behind the G.

Itching to get started!!

Thanks everyone. Keep it interesting, as always:elkgrin:
 

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
Well handled Scott. Some major chest pumping going on in this thread. I think what it boils down to between the TLC and the G wagen is which one YOU like. They both are excellent in many facets and they both make their owners proud. Brand loyalty is like politics or religion these days... sheesh. There are some great vehicles out there that you are missing out on if you have a close minded disposition on brands. I feel bad for those people as they will likely never try some of the good stuff.

For the record, my FJ80 has over 200,000 miles on the clock, 100,000 of which have been either offroad or fully loaded driving crosscountry to some location to explore offroad. It has been an incredible truck and I'll admit that I'm not the best person on upkeep, but despite this it just keeps chugging along. Sounds like the G Wagen is in the same class and in fact I almost bought a 280G 5 years ago, the only things that stopped me was rust, $$ of parts combined with availability. It had the exotic factor, capablity, and prestige, but for me, it was a choice to stay with the more ordinary and practical vehicle. I probably would have been happy either way.

Buy what you love, just don't love what you buy too much! :victory:
 

roscoFJ73

Adventurer
My facts are poor because they don't reflect the love of your life TLC in good light. Well I am an ex TLC owner. I never said the H series Hino engines are inferior in any sense, however they are not MB and not all MB engines come close to the legend of the two I mentioned. That goes to show your knowledge on MB. FYI, there was a massive recall on one of the H series engines, good old Toyota played it down initially, then when lawsuits piled, they went and quietly did the job. The engines would have premature crank bearing failure due to design. It affected late 80s TLCs. ]

Can you give me a link to this "massive recall" and the law suits that piled up?

Im not sure what you mean by a "H series engine" There were a few with H in the code but they are not all from the same series.
A 2H engine bears no relation to a 1HZ or 1HD FTE .

Your posts seem to be a collection of internet chatter with very little 1st hand knowledge.

They tried selling the Gwagon against the landcruiser in Australia.
Compared to the Landcruiser,it was too small,too slow and too expensive.
It was great offroad but not much chop when you have 2000klms of highway ahead of you with the wife and kids on board
 
The main bearing thing for the 1HD-T engine in 90-95 HDJ80s was a real, legitimate problem. Naturally Toyota blamed it on the oil, everyone else blamed it on Toyota. It's one reason we have the JASO DH-1 oil spec. (I spent a lot of time this summer teaching myself about motor oil and diesel emission specs).
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/80bigend.htm
It only affected 12 Valve (not 24 valve) turbo direct injection versions of the H engine. One of the fascinating footnotes to this saga is that people (mainly Australians) who put aftermarket turbos on their 12 valve indirect injection naturally aspirated 2Hs didn't have unusual amounts of main bearing problems.

Markerink's huge file is always interesting:
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/main_4x4.htm

As far as this whole crazy thread in general, I have a very high opinion of Landcruisers and also Mercedes vehicles especially their trucks of course. It's too bad you can't get Unimogs, diesel Gs, and especially 70 series Landcruisers in this country.

Charlie
 
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Gurkha

Adventurer
Thank you Charlie, I rate the HINO engine to be excellent and I use the W04D on my Nissan Patrol. Its very well made but intolerant to bad maintenance. Unlike the cast iron head OM616/617, HINO engine doesn't take well to overheating. This is common in vehicles with HINO engines operated by the Indian army in the highest point on earth that is Leh and Ladakh.

G Wagen also comes in LWB which compares favorably with the Toyota TLC but the TLC is more on road worthy and comfortable, G Wagen is skittish at high speeds.

Jonga.jpg
 

roscoFJ73

Adventurer
The main bearing thing for the 1HD-T engine in 90-95 HDJ80s was a real, legitimate problem. Naturally Toyota blamed it on the oil, everyone else blamed it on Toyota. It's one reason we have the JASO DH-1 oil spec. (I spent a lot of time this summer teaching myself about motor oil and diesel emission specs).
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/80bigend.htm
It only affected 12 Valve (not 24 valve) turbo direct injection versions of the H engine. One of the fascinating footnotes to this saga is that people (mainly Australians) who put aftermarket turbos on their 12 valve indirect injection naturally aspirated 2Hs didn't have unusual amounts of main bearing problems.

Markerink's huge file is always interesting:
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/main_4x4.htm

As far as this whole crazy thread in general, I have a very high opinion of Landcruisers and also Mercedes vehicles especially their trucks of course. It's too bad you can't get Unimogs, diesel Gs, and especially 70 series Landcruisers in this country.

Charlie

Ive read all that,several times. Still waiting on the "massive recall" and the law suits that piled up links.
 

Chas Stricker

Adventurer
Soooooo, with the 617a you can get 20-25 mpg? Is it driveable power wise? Keep in mind I drive a slooooooow truck. My wife drives a ML and I'm looking at a G to replace it so I can do the work on it. Is the above mileage for the wagen? Thanks guys,
Chas
 

Gurkha

Adventurer
The W04D in the Patrol pictured above. The engine is truly amazing, even after 6000 miles, the oil hardly goes dark. Even in -5C weather the engine starts in quarter turn, there are no glow plugs or block heater in it. Has done 140,000 miles and still runs like a champ.
 

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zimm

Expedition Leader
assuming TMS ='s TPS, thats a system of "waste" management. the quality comes from what the company will tolerate from its suppliers in the TPS chain.

if you took all the suppliers of defender parts and instituted TPS at LR, you'll still have a defender and it wont be any more reliable or predictable than the one built under a "buy a part and store it in a warehouse" method.

and TPS has it limitations. try being a small upstart builder of vehicles and getting toyota to supply the drivetrains. a lot of the resistance is due to TPS friction. GM.... they got a warehouse full. deals will be cut.




my kinda thread.
 

LocoCoyote

World Citizen
I know I am chiming in late to the discussion, but.....

I think a very big part of this discussion that has been largely ignored, is suitability to purpose. I think that what you use your truck for is just as important as it's specifics. I looked at dclee's gatekeeper pic (awesome btw) and the first thought I had was...no way I would do that in my G. Why? well, not because it couldn't (I'd have to look at that on the ground first!), but because I generally avoid such extremes. See, my thing is long distance travel over all kinds of terrain. The only time I would tackle such an obstacle would be of I had absolutely no other alternative.

By contrast, I get the feeling (subjective and not based on any hard facts....) that Gurkha uses his G a bit more like a travel/utility vehicle on those notorious roads in that part of the world.

Nothing wrong with any of that. My only point being that the use of the vehicle in question is very relevant to it's "reliability" and "durability" score. So for me the bottom line is that what works for you is the best vehicle for the job.
 

R Thomas

Observer
I have used both vehicles in harsh environments, on poor roads, extreme temps, and both with B6 level armor. We had only minor issues with either vehicle type, especially when comparing diesel to diesel or petrol to petrol. Harsh roads and an extra couple of tons of armor will bring out weaknesses quickly. If I had to pick a particular LC, it would be the 70, maybe just because we can't get them in the US and we had many of them there. As much as I like the LC, I want an older diesel G when I decide to stay stateside.

We have a Pinzgauer in the Balkans that is coming home with me too. Intended use and personal preference goes a long way. Most people who drive a G wouldn't want a Pinzgauer.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
 

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