Hard tail or Soft tail Mountain Bike?

[trailsurfer]

I agree with you, Trailsurfer. Titanium is perfect for hard tails. It's hard to justify it for many road bike applications now, but for a hard tail it's prime.

I also agree with your opinion of 29er wheels feeling like they rival 3" of sprung travel. The dynamic nature of a 29er wheel is nothing short of amazing to me.

By the way, are you heading down for 24 Hours of Old Pueblo?!

I am going and I am racing (SLOWLY). I got 4 rides in this week, and hope to keep up 6-9 hours of riding per week between now and then. But winter time here in Durango does not make for the best training.

When are you heading down? I think I am going down late Wednesday or first thing Thursday morning.

 

[Christophe Noel]

At 6ft and just a wee bit under 200lbs it would certainly be cheaper for me to cut back a little on the Ben&Jerry's than spend that extra$$ money for the last few pounds on a bike. You advice here is spot on but still I'm a sucker for nice stuff will probably buy a bike that is better than my ability. Yeah I'm a poser!

.

That's not being a poser. By all means, get a fancy schmancy bike! That's part of the fun of owning a bike. Just know that shopping by weight will not yield any performance gains and may even lead you to a bike with a tad less durability than you need. If you envision yourself hucking big jumps and launching into the blue, the last thing you want is a $7000 bike built for uber fast XC racing.

I'd suggest heading to your nearest bookstand and picking up the most recent BIKE magazine. Their new Bike Bible is out with little reviews of various bikes.

Lastly, there are some (including me) that are of the opinion that hard tails are actually great for building solid riding fundamentals. Even after 25 years of riding and racing on and off road, I think riding a hard tail today makes me a better rider and while I'm no hot shot, I've had more than a few guys on full suspension guys in front of me on sweet downhills clogging my "flow."

 

[Christophe Noel]

I am going and I am racing (SLOWLY). I got 4 rides in this week, and hope to keep up 6-9 hours of riding per week between now and then. But winter time here in Durango does not make for the best training.

When are you heading down? I think I am going down late Wednesday or first thing Thursday morning.

I had a major panic attack three weeks ago and started logging 14 hour weeks on the road bike to prepare. I'm freaked out because I'm about 4 weeks behind on my prep. What category are you in? I'm racing solo singlespeed. I think I'm heading down late on Thursday or very early on Friday. I want to grab a good spot on Solo Row and also to help stake out some turf for Team Overland Journal. The campground will be open on Thursday at noon, but that's super early. Let me know when you head down and we can meet up down there to lay claim to some land for the ExPo crew.

 

[efuentes]

Lastly, there are some (including me) that are of the opinion that hard tails are actually great for building solid riding fundamentals. Even after 25 years of riding and racing on and off road, I think riding a hard tail today makes me a better rider and while I'm no hot shot, I've had more than a few guys on full suspension guys in front of me on sweet downhills clogging my "flow."

Ever since I started riding my rigid almost 29er(650b) old trails are fun again.

 

[trailsurfer]

I had a major panic attack three weeks ago and started logging 14 hour weeks on the road bike to prepare. I'm freaked out because I'm about 4 weeks behind on my prep. What category are you in? I'm racing solo singlespeed. I think I'm heading down late on Thursday or very early on Friday. I want to grab a good spot on Solo Row and also to help stake out some turf for Team Overland Journal. The campground will be open on Thursday at noon, but that's super early. Let me know when you head down and we can meet up down there to lay claim to some land for the ExPo crew.

I am on the Overland Journal Team, so I just need to get my 3 laps in. I am sure you will be well prepared. I have never ridden the course and I have heard that it is really fast and flowy (sp?).

 

[Christophe Noel]

I am on the Overland Journal Team, so I just need to get my 3 laps in. I am sure you will be well prepared. I have never ridden the course and I have heard that it is really fast and flowy (sp?).

The course isn't all that hard. There's about 6 miles of really tight singletrack that requires you stay focused as to not crunch any cactus on or off the trail. There's one genuine climb, but even that climb is only 300 feet of gain. It's one of those courses that is only as hard as you make it.

And so we don't completely hijack this thread.....

The course is a prime example of a terrain best suited for a hard tail. :bike_rider:

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I know a couple shops in the area there have demo full suspension bikes that you can rent to try out on the actual trails. The rental fee is generally returned if you purchase a bike from them. Even if you don't buy it from them or don't even like that model it's better to invest $60 and know instead of $2k.

-Chris

At 6ft and just a wee bit under 200lbs it would certainly be cheaper for me to cut back a little on the Ben&Jerry's than spend that extra$$ money for the last few pounds on a bike. You advice here is spot on but still I'm a sucker for nice stuff will probably buy a bike that is better than my ability. Yeah I'm a poser!



I can appreciate this advice but the thing is I have'nt been riding any off road yet since I don't have a mountain bike yet. I could probaby start by borrowing some bikes though. That can be a little hard though.

I should have reaized this before starting this tread. I was kind of just under the assumtion that the FS bikes were mostly just for the downhill stuff. If it's not obvious by now I'm new to mountain biking and even though I ride my bikes all the time I really spend zero time reading about biking. The guys I ride with are only into road bikes period.

 

[STREGA]

:bike_rider: I have been riding Mountainbikes since the mid 80's and have seen alot of bikes come and go. All materials have good/bad points like durability, wieght, rigidity, cost etc. Finding the right bike when you have no mt. bike experiance is not a easy thing to do, ask 10 different people which one is right will more than likely get you 10 different answers, Not saying you should'nt ask for advice just don't put to much stock in one opinion. You will more than likely go through a few bikes before figuring out what you want/like in a bike, I did, so don't buy the most expensive version of a type/brand/version of a bike the first time out. Alot of bike companies use the same frame and just have models with different levels of componet quality which is the real reason for price differances. There are many things to consider beside frame material when buying a mt. bike like 26" vs 29" wheels, top tube lenght (real important imo), H/T vs full suspension. If you can borrow a friends mt.bike assuming your are close in size or even rent a few different bikes and take them out on a easy/moderate trail so you are evaluating the bike and not your bike handling skills (those will come in time!) a 10 mile loop or so would be good and take all the bikes on the same trail to keep it consistent. Most shops will credit you the rental fees if you buy a bike from them.

As far as frame materials its hard not to generalize but I found for me that a good quality steel or Ti (had a Kona King Kahuna with 6/4 ti seat & chain stays that I wish I had back) for a hardtail was best and Aluminum for a F/S makes a light but ridgid frame. Never had a Carbon Fiber frame so I can't comment on them personally but always thought they would be to easily damaged on the type of trails I mostly rode although Carbon Fiber riser bars gave alot of relief to my old bones and joints.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I mostly rode although Carbon Fiber riser bars gave alot of relief to my old bones and joints.

You can attribute that to the riser aspect, not the carbon aspect. Even bar manufacturers such as TTT and ITM will often tell you that aluminum bars (usually in high frequency vibration scenarios on the pavement) will be more comfortable than much stiffer carbon bars. Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

 

[zukrider]

i vote Giant Anthem in the highest trim you feel comfortable in purchasing. the maestro rear suspension is so climber friendly and the anthem is a 4" xc and quite light i might ad.

definately worth throwing a leg on. also reccomend a 29'er on the hardtail side. fun ride

 

[3konas]

I would bet you will be happy with either. Just ride and have fun! That's what it's all about. I have multiple bikes and sometimes I find myself reaching for the bike that has air in the tires. At no time during the ride do I say, " ah man, I should've grabbed the softtail". Sure, some trails you can go faster on a full suspension rig, banging over roots, rocks and off drops, but sometimes finessing the trail on a rigid or hardtail is where it's at. Ride a rigid around on your trails for month and go back to your hardtail or FS bike and I guarantee you will be faster! I even ride my cyclocross bike on singletrack trails. It's slow, jarring, I crash a lot, but it's fun and it makes me a better rider! Ride what you got and have fun!

I'm from the northwest and I support Kona. A ti Hei Hei that I bought in 1990 was my first Kona. Current forks won't work with 1990 geometry so it became a rigid singlespeed. That bike has seen some of the best trails in Colorado, Idaho, Moab, Oregon and all of the best trails in Washington. It took me around New Zealand with racks held on with pipe hangers. It has had a tough life, and 20 years on, I still ride it like it was new. I can't say that about the steel or aluminum bikes I've owned. Something to consider when choosing a bike.

A friend of mine lived in SB with his girlfriend (now his wife) and he said the riding was great, road and Mtn. They moved to Marin and now he floods me with pictures of the road rides there. I need to make my way south!

Enjoy

 

[chris_the_wrench]

Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

But they, carbon bars, do have a longer life cycle of such vibrations.

I'm no engineer, but that's what I've been told for the past 10 years since carbon bars have been the dominant handlebar material.

-Chris

 

[STREGA]

You can attribute that to the riser aspect, not the carbon aspect. Even bar manufacturers such as TTT and ITM will often tell you that aluminum bars (usually in high frequency vibration scenarios on the pavement) will be more comfortable than much stiffer carbon bars. Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

Didn't know about carbon myth #512, but I replaced a Easton aluminum riser bar with a Easton carbon riser bar with about the same rise, sweep and width and the differance was amazing for me, maybe it was the placebo effect or something.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Didn't know about carbon myth #512, but I replaced a Easton aluminum riser bar with a Easton carbon riser bar with about the same rise, sweep and width and the differance was amazing for me, maybe it was the placebo effect or something.

Don't get me wrong, I think carbon is pretty sexy. I've got carbon bars on my rig and they do exactly what they're intended to do...look great. I have an old racing friend from way back that has been a product manager for ITM for several years. He told me they did volumes of testing and found their aluminum bars muted vibrations as efficiently, if not better than their carbon bars which were stiffer and used more material mass which they said conducted vibrations just fine. This also explains why so many Pro Tour riders were opting to use aluminum bars over blingier carbon bars. That trend is changing because as was said recently by the head Fred at Deda - fewer high caliber aluminum bars are available.

You also have to take into consideration the frequency of vibrations that in theory could become troublesome for a rider. Those vibrations that carbon can effectively mute (again in theory) are extremely high frequency vibrations. Such vibrations on mountain bikes simply don't travel through fat tires, spokes, forks, rubber grips, padded gloves, etc.

Carbon has an interesting affect on people's perceptions and expectations. If carbon is capable of soaking up vibrations, how would you predict the ride of a Cervelo P4 TT bike with 90mm deep carbon wheel up front, full disc out back, carbon saddle sans padding, carbon bars sans tape and only 2mm of neoprene on the elbow pads. Oh, and 20mm tires up front. Ya....that's a lot of carbon and you better believe that bike would ride like a jackhammer.

 

[STREGA]

Don't get me wrong, I think carbon is pretty sexy. I've got carbon bars on my rig and they do exactly what they're intended to do...look great. I have an old racing friend from way back that has been a product manager for ITM for several years. He told me they did volumes of testing and found their aluminum bars muted vibrations as efficiently, if not better than their carbon bars which were stiffer and used more material mass which they said conducted vibrations just fine. This also explains why so many Pro Tour riders were opting to use aluminum bars over blingier carbon bars. That trend is changing because as was said recently by the head Fred at Deda - fewer high caliber aluminum bars are available.

You also have to take into consideration the frequency of vibrations that in theory could become troublesome for a rider. Those vibrations that carbon can effectively mute (again in theory) are extremely high frequency vibrations. Such vibrations on mountain bikes simply don't travel through fat tires, spokes, forks, rubber grips, padded gloves, etc.

Carbon has an interesting affect on people's perceptions and expectations. If carbon is capable of soaking up vibrations, how would you predict the ride of a Cervelo P4 TT bike with 90mm deep carbon wheel up front, full disc out back, carbon saddle sans padding, carbon bars sans tape and only 2mm of neoprene on the elbow pads. Oh, and 20mm tires up front. Ya....that's a lot of carbon and you better believe that bike would ride like a jackhammer.

No worrys, don't want to get into a Pxxxing match about carbon fiber. I didn't bolt on a carbon fiber bar for it's bling factor, but out of frustration due to after ride aches and pain I was having. Since I worked @ a shop @ the time the bars didn't cost much and seemed like it would be worth a shot. It helped and literally made the differance between riding and not riding for me.

Not only would the Cervelo ride like a jackhammer but it would be very fast also, everything is a compromise I guess. When I was 20, something like that would be a blast to ride, @ fifty+ it would kill me.

Anyway go ride some of that Prescott singletrack for me, My local trails are under about 4+ feet of snow so its snowshoeing for me for now.