FORM 29'er: Expeditions West

[1speed]

I'll agree with the anti Shimano sentiment, just because. I've been running SRAM off road and Campy on road for years and prefer not to run Shimano. Don't ask me why, I really can't tell you, but I HAVE had excellent luck with both SRAM and Campy.

As far tubeless goes, it can be a pain and the biggest trouble I have is with the Stan's sealer drying up. The rims I'm using for Scott's wheels should mitigate most of the tubeless issues except the sealer. More info and pics tomorrow evening.

 

[Scott Brady]

Nice! Can't wait to see some wheel assembly photos.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Everyone loves to love Campy and loves to hate Shimano. Makes me long for the days of Suntour Superbe Pro.

Shimano works. It just does. Like all brands, they have struggles nailing all of their products, like their wheels, but all things considered, you're not going to build a good or bad bike if you use SRAM or Shimano. I know two brothers that rode from Prudhoe to Mexico TWICE, once via the Divide Route, on bikes with Acera derailleurs. Those were bikes valued at less than these drive trains we're talking about.

Regarding tubeless and touring - you have to take a tube anyway. If you have three tubes with you counting those in your hoops, you have that much better chance keeping air in at least two of them. I'd also say, the nuance of tubeless favors lower psi for improved traction. Traction is never the problem with even the most lightly loaded touring set ups. You put 18-24 pounds of kit on a bike and she sticks like velcro to the trail. Plus, you have to run slightly higher psi anyway when touring on singletrack to lessen the risk of rim damage, or other bummers that can turn your bike-pack into a back-pack.

Ultimately, it's a non-issue because tossing in a tube prior to a tour is pretty quick.

 

[mountainsoul]

I'll throw Shimano another bone too. I run both XTR and SRAM X0 on my bikes. Both shift flawlessly when dialed but I would choose XTR for the improved durability and build quality.

I don't know why you would run anything but tubeless. Especially if you are going to be 50+ miles out in the backcountry. Just invest in a good wheelset, run sealant, and get them set up correctly and you will be fine. It will not only save you time and hassles but it will allow you to alter your tire pressure accordingly as you pass over varying terrain on your travels. Plus running lower pressure on a HT will serve your back well over many miles in the saddle. Yes tubeless tires can still flat BUT the chances are MUCH lower especially if you are running sealant. Plus it's rare for you to completely lose all air pressure so "limping home" is usually still a last ditch option if called upon. Changing flats pisses me off and the peace of mind is worth it IMHO.

BB7s get my vote too. Work great and easy to service on the fly.

Pay the extra for Chris King. I don't care what people say. I wouldn't go anywhere without that name adorning my hubs and headset. 10 years, zero maintenance, zero problems. That's hard to beat in mtbing. If they made pink lacy man thongs I would wear them too.

 

[trailsurfer]

I am also a Shimano guy. I just prefer the shifting action and durability. SRAM makes a good product, it just isn't for me. I want reliability on multi day rides covering hundreds of miles at a time. Shimano components have yet to fail me.

Although I won't run their hubs, they have failed me to many times to mention. I am fan of the King hubs, but prefer the DT Swiss hubs for durability and the low maintenance.

 

[tacollie]

I love to see people go from production bikes to custom frames. This sounds like it will be a cool build in the end. The bb7s are good but I wouldn't rule out a good set of hydraulic brakes. I really like 2x9 set ups. The Sram XX front with a 9 speed x9 rear seams to be the ticket but it is still early for these products. Either way it will be a sweet bike in the end.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I ride with a regular group of a dozen guys. All of us have been avid riders and bike industry guys for a couple decades plus. Every one of us rides King hubs and headsets and use Thompson posts and stems. You'd think none of us knew of any other options.

King hubs do like a little maintenance from time to time, but then again, who neglects to maintain a $300 rear hub?? I've also had good luck with DT hubs, but part of me just likes to support Chris King as a company. They seem like a nice outfit.

 

[nickw]

Chris King

Been a big fan of Chris King stuff myself for many years with nary a problem. The make the best headsets by far, no questions there.

IMO, kings are good IF you need the precision offered by the 72 engagement point freewheel (tech riding and trials) and you are attentive to maintenance requirements (pretty basic).

I think offerings from both Shimano, and especially Phil Wood, are probably better choices for long term low maintenance operations, field reparability (kings require a special tool) and set-it and forget it attitude.

Most of the long haul touring crowd really leans AWAY from kings due to the above issues.

 

[tacollie]

DT and King are both great companies offering great products. I know people who work for both companies and they are all very reliable.

I wanted to also say Form is a great company. A lot of small frame builders do not run a reliable business, Form on the other hand has been a pleasure when it comes to their work and business ethics.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

With 29er they mostly just need to be burly and stiff. I think we are overthinking it a hair but I will say that again my Hadleys have been absolutely great. Also (and again nothing against King, I will run them and run them again) but it is also well documented that the top offerings from Cane Creek, Crank Brothers, and even/particularly Hope (and it is well documented that their hubs and other components do not compare to King IMO). I also currently happen to have a Chris King headset that no matter what happens still creaks. Works fine, I know I could send it back (which is a PITA) but it is a hair annoying. So such is life. But again I think with their bearing quality even the new/unproven bottom brackets will be killer (I will say this is wear everyone seems to fall a hair short though moisture is the biggest enemy of any of these bearings) but I also forgot to mention I've had to replace a couple of these too. But given where bottom bracket cups are and what they do it is understandable that they go out as well...

Anyway, lots of info... Hope it all helps...

 

[bluedog]

While I can't comment on the frame maker, I will second your choice on frame material. Titanium is the best for over all stregnth and durability. The ride is second to none.

Look for SRAM to go 2 X 10 this year on XO, X9, and X7 to go with the already on the market XX. SRAM's focus is 2 X 10 on all the new parts coming out from this point. A 36T cassette with a 32T inner ring should get you up just about anything and still be light and durable. If you go Hannerschmidt on the crankset I think your gearing my be a bit lower. I would also go King on the headset and Hubs, and Thomson for your seatpost and stem, made in the USA.

Are you going with a suspension fork or ridged?

Add some Tubus or Old Man Mountain racks and your good to go.

B.

 

[1speed]

I know we have some true bike experts on here so some may agree with this wheel build and some may not. I chose what I chose based on my experiences as a 220lb hardtail rider, both geared and singlespeed and as a several year veteran wheel builder.

I use Wheelsmith spoke prep on all my wheels and they go through AT LEAST 3-5 cycles of pre-stressing and re-truing before they go out the door. I offer free truing and tensioning for LIFE as long as the wheel components are not physically damaged.

My favorite 29er build right now is 32 spoke 3 cross, built with Hope Pro II hubs, DT Swiss Supercomp spokes, alloy nipples, and Velocity Blunt rims. These have held up to my punishment in several 6 hour single speed solo races and a couple of years of singletrack riding with no failures or issues. I have not touched these wheels since I built them.

For Scott's build I wanted to add a little beef to my typical 29er build without adding too much weight. I have built mountain bike wheels on Hope, American Classic, King, Hadley, Shimano, DT Swiss, White Industries, and WTB hubs and the only ones I have had ZERO issues with, other than having a fairly soft alloy freehub body, are the Hopes. I stuck with the Hope Pro II hub but will be using the steel replacement freehub body. For spokes I wanted a little more beef than the triple butted Super Comps so I'm going with the DT Swiss Competition double butted spokes. I'll be using brass nipples rather than alloy, and staying with the 32 spoke 3 cross pattern. For rims I'm going with the Velocity P-35 and their new Velotape tubeless conversion. These rims are super wide at 35mm wide Wow1 and will really add some air volume and a wide contact patch to the tire. The extra air volume should allow for a nice soft ride as well as greater flexibility in tire pressures. With the new Velotape system Scott will be able to use either tube type or UST tires tubeless, or run tubes simply by removing the tubeless valve stem that can be removed or installed without tools. No rim strips!

Personally, I would run a tube type tire tubeless with sealer for single track and a UST tire with sealer for the extra strength when touring.

Here are links to all the goodies and I should have everything in by tommorow or Friday and start posting pics.

rims- http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=715
velotape tubeless conversion- http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=745
spokes- http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Spokes/DT-competition.aspx
nipples- http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Nipples/DT-standard-brass.aspx
hubs- http://www.hopetechusa.com/voir_rhpr32bqr.html
http://www.hopetechusa.com/voir_fhpr32bqr.html

Of course in true EXPO fashion, the component colors are black, black, black and black!

 

[Scott Brady]

Of course in true EXPO fashion, the component colors are black, black, black and black!

Awesome!

 

[1speed]

A good write-up on the P-35 rims.

http://mtbreviews.net/velocity-p35-first-look/

 

[nickw]

Hubs

Good call on the steel free hub body, every alum one I have used has gotten destroyed.

I know we have some true bike experts on here so some may agree with this wheel build and some may not. I chose what I chose based on my experiences as a 220lb hardtail rider, both geared and singlespeed and as a several year veteran wheel builder.

I use Wheelsmith spoke prep on all my wheels and they go through AT LEAST 3-5 cycles of pre-stressing and re-truing before they go out the door. I offer free truing and tensioning for LIFE as long as the wheel components are not physically damaged.

My favorite 29er build right now is 32 spoke 3 cross, built with Hope Pro II hubs, DT Swiss Supercomp spokes, alloy nipples, and Velocity Blunt rims. These have held up to my punishment in several 6 hour single speed solo races and a couple of years of singletrack riding with no failures or issues. I have not touched these wheels since I built them.

For Scott's build I wanted to add a little beef to my typical 29er build without adding too much weight. I have built mountain bike wheels on Hope, King, Hadley, Shimano, and WTB hubs and the only ones I have had ZERO issues with, other than having a fairly soft alloy freehub body, are the Hopes. I stuck with the Hope Pro II hub but will be using the steel replacement freehub body. For spokes I wanted a little more beef than the triple butted Super Comps so I'm going with the DT Swiss Competition double butted spokes. I'll be using brass nipples rather than alloy, and staying with the 32 spoke 3 cross pattern. For rims I'm going with the Velocity P-35 and their new Velotape tubeless conversion. These rims are super wide at 35mm wide Wow1 and will really add some air volume and a wide contact patch to the tire. The extra air volume should allow for a nice soft ride as well as greater flexibility in tire pressures. With the new Velotape system Scott will be able to use either tube type or UST tires tubeless, or run tubes simply by removing the tubeless valve stem that can be removed or installed without tools. No rim strips!

Personally, I would run a tube type tire tubeless with sealer for single track and a UST tire with sealer for the extra strength when touring.

Here are links to all the goodies and I should have everything in by tommorow or Friday and start posting pics.

rims- http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=715
velotape tubeless conversion- http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=745
spokes- http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Spokes/DT-competition.aspx
nipples- http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Nipples/DT-standard-brass.aspx
hubs- http://www.hopetechusa.com/voir_rhpr32bqr.html
http://www.hopetechusa.com/voir_fhpr32bqr.html

Of course in true EXPO fashion, the component colors are black, black, black and black!