How would you outfit this custom LJ?

[jscherb]

...You are killing me here with all this stuff! I can't even draw it in mspaint, and you just go out and build it like legos! If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living, is all this fab part of your day-to-day? I can't even fathom what you must have wrapped up ($) in all your projects!

My career had nothing to do with fabrication, this is just a hobby for me.

It costs about $500-600 for the materials to mold one of these LJ tops, so it's not too expensive. Building the molds cost a bit more than that, but the biggest investment is time, not materials.

 

[Root Moose]

This would more or less be my vision for such a vehicle. So much so in fact that I need to figure out how to do it with my YJ....

 

[mountainsoul]

I have two designs for open/soft sides.

Design 1: Running the roof as a hard bikini, with roll-up soft side panels:

That's very cool. Love this set up! This is the way I would go for sure.

You've obviously put some considerable thought and time into these projects. Are you thinking of turning this into a business down the road or is this solely for personal use?

 

[cybercat]

Now if we could just get one in metal. With side/rear panels that would slide on to the top and bottom. One person could remove the top.

 

[Lewybrewing]

First off, that is a great looking Jeep and the things I type here are just my ideas and mean no disrespect.

I would not paint the top, I think the finish looks good and you can touch up the paint if needed. Maybe adding a sunroof (flip-up)

I would loose the chrome grill in favor for a black one.

I do like the Land Roverish look the top gave to the jeep and I would continue on this trend.

 

[Black Dog]

So then you mold these tops in fiberglass? Theoretically speaking, one could also do it in carbon fiber and save some weight.

 

[grahamfitter]

My two cents...

I noticed that the front portion of the roof slopes so the tracks for the roof rack are located quite far back on the vehicle. One effect of this is that long items such as kayaks will stick out behind the vehicle. Another is the load will be carried solidly on the rear wheels rather than being more evenly distributed front-back.

Thinking back to older vehicles with rain gutters, it didn't really matter what the roof profile was because the crossbars for the roof rack could be located anywhere along the roof line. I'm not suggesting rain gutters (well, actually...!) but a longer flat section of roof would make load management significantly easier. This would be especially useful for those heavy RTTs, even more so for any that need three or even four crossbars to distribute the load.

For reference I have a Congo Cage rack on my LJ which attaches to the body front and rear. (It sucks, BTW and I'm looking for a way of attaching a roof rack directly to my current hard top.) The Overcamp RTT is 6 feet long and is evenly loaded front-back on the mounting points so when you look at it side-on its roughly level with the top of the windshield and the back of the vehicle. I wouldn't want to put the load any further back than it already is.

Also I'll echo others and say I think all your custom builds are great and I wish you all the best with the hard-top project and for anything else you build in the future! :victory:

Cheers,
Graham

 

[jscherb]

That's very cool. Love this set up! This is the way I would go for sure.

You've obviously put some considerable thought and time into these projects. Are you thinking of turning this into a business down the road or is this solely for personal use?

The moderator for this forum has told me that it is a violation of forum rules to discuss the commercialization of this top in this forum, but I think I can say the following:

I am building this top as a personal project for my own Jeeps and I don't have any interest in being in the hardtop business myself, however I have been in discussions with a Jeep aftermarket hardtop company that is interested in bringing this top to market. In fact I am tentatively scheduled to deliver the mold masters to them next week so they can begin the work on their own molds. When and if they decide to bring the tops to market they'll make an announcement.

Please no more discussion about these tops coming to market in this public thread so we don't violate forum rules. I started this thread for the purpose of getting input from you guys on how you'd outfit it for expedition use, so I could get ideas I might use to finish off my top. This thread is not a request for input on the top for commercial purposes.

Thank you.
Jeff

 

[jscherb]

Now if we could just get one in metal. With side/rear panels that would slide on to the top and bottom. One person could remove the top.

I'm not sure what the benefit of having it in metal would be. It can be put on and taken off by one person because it is modular. The roof panel is the largest and heaviest, but weight isn't a problem, the awkwardness due to its large size (the LJ roof is 7.5' x 5') makes it a little bit of a challenge for one person, but I regularly put it on and take it off myself. This photo was taken before the roof panel was trimmed and finished):

And here's a design drawing showing the modularity, the side and rear panels come off separately from the roof:

So even though it isn't metal, I believe it functions the way you want, doesn't it?

 

[jscherb]

First off, that is a great looking Jeep and the things I type here are just my ideas and mean no disrespect.

I would not paint the top, I think the finish looks good and you can touch up the paint if needed. Maybe adding a sunroof (flip-up)

I would loose the chrome grill in favor for a black one.

I do like the Land Roverish look the top gave to the jeep and I would continue on this trend.

Thanks for the input.

The top is currently in satin black epoxy primer. Unfortunately because epoxy primer isn't designed to be a top coat, it does not have any UV inhibitors, so at the very least a top coat needs to be applied. It could be a satin black top coat of course, but personally I prefer a gloss finish matching the Jeep body, so that's what I plan.

 

[jscherb]

So then you mold these tops in fiberglass? Theoretically speaking, one could also do it in carbon fiber and save some weight.

Yes, and I did a cost analysis of that. As I said, the fiberglass materials to mold this top cost between $500 and $600 at the prices I pay from the fiberglass materials supplier I use (a professional fiberglass shop could probably do it cheaper at their wholesale prices for materials, but they'd have to add labor cost and my labor is free ). If I used carbon fiber instead of fiberglass mat and roving, the cost for materials would be about $1000 per top. So yes it could be done, but that adds a lot to the cost, almost double.

BTW I weighed the top the other day, and it weighs less than the factory LJ hardtop without the XJ roof rack on top, and with the roof rack it weighs within a few pounds of the factory top.

 

[jscherb]

My two cents...

I noticed that the front portion of the roof slopes so the tracks for the roof rack are located quite far back on the vehicle. One effect of this is that long items such as kayaks will stick out behind the vehicle. Another is the load will be carried solidly on the rear wheels rather than being more evenly distributed front-back.

It would certainly be possible to put a different roof rack on these tops, I just used the stock XJ rack because it was easily available and inexpensive. The roof is reinforced to support racks with a rail spacing of roughly 48 inches, so any rack with that rail spacing could be bolted to the roof.

My thought for very long items like kayaks would be to have something like the Lange front rack support that bolts to the windshield hinges in addition to the roof rack as shown below. Another reason I used the XJ rack is that there's a lot of aftermarket support for it, for example the Yakima Cross Bars with their Kayak Rack:

Thinking back to older vehicles with rain gutters, it didn't really matter what the roof profile was because the crossbars for the roof rack could be located anywhere along the roof line. I'm not suggesting rain gutters (well, actually...!) but a longer flat section of roof would make load management significantly easier. This would be especially useful for those heavy RTTs, even more so for any that need three or even four crossbars to distribute the load.

The top actually does have a metal rain gutter, all the way around the sides and the back, it is easily visible in the photo below showing the top before it was primed. However, I did not design the rain gutter to support the weight of roof racks, it is designed only to function as a rain gutter and as the bolting flange to attach the top panel to the side modules.

The way I've designed the roof to support racks with 48 inch rail spacing, the load is transferred through the roof to the factory roll bars, which provides plenty of load-carrying capacity.

For reference I have a Congo Cage rack on my LJ which attaches to the body front and rear. (It sucks, BTW and I'm looking for a way of attaching a roof rack directly to my current hard top.) The Overcamp RTT is 6 feet long and is evenly loaded front-back on the mounting points so when you look at it side-on its roughly level with the top of the windshield and the back of the vehicle. I wouldn't want to put the load any further back than it already is.

Also I'll echo others and say I think all your custom builds are great and I wish you all the best with the hard-top project and for anything else you build in the future! :victory:

Cheers,
Graham

Thanks, and thanks for the input!
Jeff

 

[jscherb]

This would more or less be my vision for such a vehicle. So much so in fact that I need to figure out how to do it with my YJ....

I've designed the top so that it can be used on TJ/LJ Jeeps and on CJ/YJ Jeeps. There are only two parts that are different between the versions - the roof panel has a different header bonded inside to match the profile of the windshield seal (TJ vs. CJ/YJ), and the door surrounds are different in a very subtle way at the top of the door near the front. (They're actually functionally interchangeable, but if you want the door gap to be perfect, the surrounds have to be slightly different because the shape of the top of the TJ door is slightly different than the shape of the CY/YJ door).

Other than that all same mold masters/molds can make tops for any version of Jeep (well, CJ-7, CJ-8, YJ, TJ, LJ at least), in full and half-cab versions.

Oh I almost forgot, on CJ Jeeps the rear door would be configured as a swing-up hatch because the CJ has a swing-down tailgate. On TJ and YJ Jeeps the rear door is configured as a side-swinging "barn door" attached the the side-swinging tailgate. (The swing-up hatch could be used on the TJ and YJ Jeeps as well, but seems to me the barn door configuration is the better choice for those models.

 

[Root Moose]

Yes, and I did a cost analysis of that. As I said, the fiberglass materials to mold this top cost between $500 and $600 at the prices I pay from the fiberglass materials supplier I use (a professional fiberglass shop could probably do it cheaper at their wholesale prices for materials, but they'd have to add labor cost and my labor is free ). If I used carbon fiber instead of fiberglass mat and roving, the cost for materials would be about $1000 per top. So yes it could be done, but that adds a lot to the cost, almost double.

BTW I weighed the top the other day, and it weighs less than the factory LJ hardtop without the XJ roof rack on top, and with the roof rack it weighs within a few pounds of the factory top.

FWIW, I have a carbon fibre roof on my S2000. It was quite expensive. I bought it used for $2500. New they are ~$6000+ (pre-preg - auto-claved, JDM source, etc., etc.).

It is definitely lighter than the same top done in fibreglass but for a Jeep I would never pony up that kind of money just to save a couple dozen pounds over the fibreglass version. The value equation doesn't make sense in my mind.

 

[Root Moose]

I've designed the top so that it can be used on TJ/LJ Jeeps and on CJ/YJ Jeeps. There are only two parts that are different between the versions - the roof panel has a different header bonded inside to match the profile of the windshield seal (TJ vs. CJ/YJ), and the door surrounds are different in a very subtle way at the top of the door near the front. (They're actually functionally interchangeable, but if you want the door gap to be perfect, the surrounds have to be slightly different because the shape of the top of the TJ door is slightly different than the shape of the CY/YJ door).

Other than that all same mold masters/molds can make tops for any version of Jeep (well, CJ-7, CJ-8, YJ, TJ, LJ at least), in full and half-cab versions.

Oh I almost forgot, on CJ Jeeps the rear door would be configured as a swing-up hatch because the CJ has a swing-down tailgate. On TJ and YJ Jeeps the rear door is configured as a side-swinging "barn door" attached the the side-swinging tailgate. (The swing-up hatch could be used on the TJ and YJ Jeeps as well, but seems to me the barn door configuration is the better choice for those models.

Good to know. I think in the past we discussed the feasibility of doing custom lengths. I forget the outcome of the discussion. My thing is that I plan to stretch the YJ to TJ Unlimited length. I guess getting the CJ8 version and sectioning it to the correct length may be an option.