5.3 or 5.9 magnum in TJ?

[78Bronco]

IMO, I would start with another vehicle. That is a lot of work to end up with Dana30/44 combo. You might aswell look at a Dana60/14bolt combo and never have to re-address axle strength with a healthy V8 that is going to shred that AX15 to bits. The ax15 might be reliable behind the 4.0L but now you are going to be increasing torque and HP by 50%. Are you sure it can be done? You are already going to be upgrading the brakes so why even bother with these tiny axles in the first place.

I would look for a Ford 9" from an early bronco with the 31 spline side gear upgrade and a dana44 front axle. You will have bigger ring gear and brakes and parts are cheap and plentiful.

You obviously love your TJ. Just trying to offer some constructive critism.

Good luck!

 

[miyvh7]

Thanks for the input. I need all the help I can get. If you are going to take the time and spend the money to do something then do it right the first time or not at all. All of the mods are intended to increase both the reliability as well as the capability of the vehicle. With all of the experience that is part of this site I appreciate any and all view points.

 

[78Bronco]

You might even want to take your TJ and talk to a few recommended 4x4 shops in your area to see what they would suggest for the build.

You need to determine a budget and expectations for the build. For example, I want to tow a 6000lb trailer with 35" tires on a 104" wheelbase and a v8. Once you have an outline of performance expectations wou can start selecting engine/tranny/t-case/axles/suspension parts. I would probably sell the TJ and buy something that's pretty much has everything already and needs minor mods to suit you. A TJ platform can be a limiting factor for a do-it-all rig.

 

[alosix]

I knew a guy in MD that did a 5.9 conversion on his TJ and loved it. The driveline held up well for a Jeep on 36s.

Fairly sure it was 3.73 or 4.10 ratio. D30 and 8.8 on 36" swampers. May have had a tera low in it but I can't remember.

He was getting better gas mileage with the 5.9 on 36s than he was with the 4 banger he had on 33s

The engine fit in the bay well, seemed to keeps itself cool ok, and the wiring lines up well to early TJs.

Given the current selection of engines out there. I'd probably track down a PCI bused Hemi and use that.

2000lbs on a TJ isn't all that nuts. Its right up at the top of its 'rated' capacity and I probably get my M101 up to that total with a good load every so often. As long as its loaded correctly the TJ pulls it just fine.

And airbags.. well.. I've done this now on my TJ and we've got a XJ with the same setup nearly done

They used to do a rear only kit a long long time ago, and with the right persuasion you could probably get Steve to sell you the few parts needed to mount up a set of just rear bags.

Jason

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Do a HPD44/44 or 8.8/9" rear. A 30/35 will not last long with a 5.9. Gears wise, I'd say 4.10 to 4.56. That would also depent what t-case you run. On that note, I don't think a 231 would have a long life with 300 lb/ft. Look at a flipped D300 for a good, strong, cheap t-case. Your AX-15 will hate life with that kind of power. Further, I don't think anybody makes an adapter for it.

In the thread title, you say "5.3 or 5.9." Did you just mis-type, or are you considering the GM 5.3 V-8? IMHO, it's a better motor than either the 318 or 360. It also makes 290 hp out of the box; the 5.9 was only rated at 230-245 hp depending on the model it was in.

-----Matt-----

 

[XXXpedition]

it's probably already been said (but i didn't have time to read through all of it...)
if you are running a high-torque engine with 35"s, you'll tear up any axle smaller than D44 in no time - if you're really going to take it off-road...

even with a 4.0l HO you can kill a HP D30 front axle with 33"s when locked up.

 

[miyvh7]

Thanks for all of the info! I've had to really get moving to keep up with all of the info/advice and follow-up. So here's what I have found / decided so far.

I have also contacted Evan @ Backwoods Off road, Very helpful and highly recommended by all that I have contacted concerning his products. Based on his and others currently running this setup the 5.2L magnum from a 2001-02 Ram 1500 preferably from a 4X4 with a NV3500 5 speed will be the donor.

The gearing selections will now move to the higher end, 4.10 – 4.33 with 4.56 as the top based on recommendations to stay at 33” tires.

I contacted Jeep for the Factory build sheets and confirmed the Drive line as 2001 4.0L AX-15 5 spd D30 Frt / D44 rear 3.73.

I have also contacted / joined the local Jeep club and been directed to a well respected local fab shop for the build / install. Steve @ A/T fab in Dallas is currently working with me to put together the build plan and confirming integration and compatibility for all of the various components and manufactures. No he dose not think that engineers are a pain, just slow and overly cautious.

If anyone sees any flaws in the current plan please continue to shout out before this fool and his money are parted.

Scope of Expectations for 2001 Wrangler TJ build

The purpose of this vehicle is primarily long distance vehicle dependent expeditionary travel, in North America. Much of that travel will be on paved roads, and will be pulling a 2,000 lb travel trailer on road but also providing off road trail capability of 3.5 or greater with no additional modifications when completed. All modifications will have the appearance of a “Factory Option” and provide 100K reliability.

Classification: A "light duty" expedition rig for the purpose of this build is premised on the nature of our trips that will rarely last more than a week or so, and despite an expected maximum GVR of 5200lb fully loaded weight, our Jeep will be considered as relatively lightweight by expeditionary vehicle standards. An expedition vehicle has an emphasis on simplicity, economy, durability and safety. The project will be approached in three stages.

Stage One, Platform. To establish the basic platform on which subsequent stages will build
Stage Two, Livability. The interior NVH, seating, navigation, electrical support and storage systems
Stage Three, Drive Line Power. Achieving 300 HP / 300 Lbs torque

Stage One will consist of: Suspension, Axles / Gearing, Fuel and armor
Build Parameters: Utilizing the least amount of lift required to accommodate a maximum of 33" tires, and comfortably tackle trails with an nominal trail rating of 3.5.
· Lift 3.5” max capable of supporting V-8 upgrade if required, Potential GVR 5200 Lbs.
· D30 / D44 / D30HP front, Disk conversion rear
· Custom bumpers front & rear (Nate’s front, AEV JK patterned Rear including tire carrier, Shrockworks rear TJ) 8000lb + wench in bumper lights front & rear
· 4.10 / 4.56 part time locker (on road RPM @ 75 2400)
· 350+ mile range
· Armor to provide complete underbody obstacle protection and additional ground clearance

Stage Two
· NVH, Noise Insulation of body and top for heat and noise
o Vibration control, suspension, engine and driveline mounting to minimize.
o Handling to maintain original OEM performance characteristics
o Seating, Reclining long distance adjustable (Corbeau GRS II)
o Electrical power for off road lighting, interior outlets for multiple dc connections, 1000 watt dc ac inverter
o Overland travel gear, water storage & dc fridge

Stage Three
o V-8 swap 2001 - 2003 5.2l magnum to utilize factory cpu, wiring harness and drive line. (Magnum V-8 into a TJ Wrangler file)

 

[78Bronco]

It's good to have a defined scope.

I think you should consider keeping the 4.0L inline 6. The power numbers you want from the 5.2L can be had from the inline motor and I think it is more reliable. Consider finding a used motor and having it rebuilt into a 4.7L inline 6 "stroker".

Your axles should do fine with 33" tires and thankfully you already have the dana44.

 

[cocco78]

The 5.2 and 5.9 motors are ancient old technology motors. I would never consider swapping one into a newer TJ. Sure you can get HP and torque out of them, but the fuel economy sucks. If I was going to swap in a V8 it would either be the 4.7L if you want to stay brand loyal, or a 5.3L gm motor which is a very popular swap with tons of info out there on them. The 4.7L V8 like out of a grand cherokee is a great motor, plenty of HP and torque but its a small v8 and likes the rpm's for power. I had a 99 WJ limited quadra drive and consistantly got 22mpg on the highway with it, even towed my wrangler a few times and did not lack any power at all. The GM 5.3 or 6.0L v8's are a real popular swap to, they are a very reliable motor that produce around 300hp and are pretty economical. Right now I have a GMC 1/2t with the 5.3 and it will cruise down the highway getting 18-20mpg...

 

[winkosmosis]

I second the 4.7L option. That is a great engine. Good fuel economy (better than 4.0), good reliability, and 235hp is pretty good. It's not a racecar is it?

 

[winkosmosis]

You could also have the 4.0L stroked

 

[miyvh7]

Thanks for the input. I have been looking at the 4.7L as well but have not found acceptable answers to these questions:
·Wiring interface to original chassis wiring, 2001 model
·Dimensional differences between the older 5.2 – 5.9 and the 4.7, It appears that the newer engine has a wider profile and head height, exhaust port mounting, etc
Available aftermarket support, adapters technical support, too new in the sport
·The power / toque mpg differences, do not appear to offset these obstacles. 5.2 factory 235Hp 300ft lbs MPG 13- 18, 4.7 235hp 295ft-lbs, MPG 13 - 19

If however anyone has practical experience in addressing these issues I would very much like to hear from them.

 

[winkosmosis]

From what I've read on forums, the pushrods get much worse gas mileage even though they were used in the lighter ZJ. I wouldn't trust those ratings

 

[78Bronco]

I still think "stroking" your 4.0L to 4.7L is the best option and will produce the same result while using all the stock wiring your currently have. V8's aren't the end all and be all solution.:smiley_drive:

 

[computeruser]

Thanks, it's interesting the you run increased PSI off road, 10 – 15, I would have ***-u-me d, and you what happens when you do that, that the opposite would have been the result to take advantage of the suspension articulation. Can you help me understand why the inverse is the case?

I guess I should have qualified my statement - my off-road travels tend to go hand-in-hand with increased vehicle loads. I didn't qualify the statement because it was so intuitive to me that I forgot that it might not be to others. I'm sure my road PSI would be fine with an equally unladen TJ off-road.

The TJs are lacking in spring rate when you've got a load in the back, and this becomes really noticeable off pavement. We're talking "expedition" travel, not rock crawling here. I've always found that I could get all the flex I needed out of my un-swaybar'd front end and the inherent flex in the back, but would get the vehicle wobbling back and forth for a couple oscillations more than I wanted when creeping over things (logs, rocks, ruts, etc.), when I had a heavy load in the back. A lot of times this left the bumpstops to get a workout and the hitch and gas tank to end up bumping into stuff that they don't need to bump into. By upping the spring rate, I'm still able to flex, but the left-right-left-right transition just doesn't occur as rapidly, which makes the vehicle nicer to drive and easier on the cargo in the back.