Chevy 3500 Express VS. Ford E350 test driven but still have ????'s

carcrafter22

Adventurer
The wife and I have been seriously considering buying an extended passenger van for long road trips as well as camping and being able to pull the boat. I cant see spending the cash on a ready built SMB but dont mind investing in a 1-3 year old used van in good shape as a base to start my own conversion. The plan is to get a van have then take it to SMB here in Texas and have them install a penthouse top, everything else I'd do myself, just the basics like a small Isotherm fridge, microwave or possibly a toaster oven, small tv and a bed/couch.

I took my wife to the local chevy dealer and drove 2 used vans, van 1 was a 2008 E350 with 31,000 miles and van 2 was a 2010 chevy 3500 express with 15,000 miles, both were passenger vans and had similar features with gas engines in both. I first chose the ford since I grew up owning them and have always like them and until this test drive I we were both heavily leaning towards the ford vans.

With the ford I immediately noticed the loud resonating factory stock single pipe exhaust and engine noise, the shifter felt sloppy with no positive feel of gear engagement. The seat was mildly comfortable to sit in but once we started on the road it was immediately apparent the ride wasnt going to be very good, even over the small lot speed bumps it was a jarring ride especially once we were on typical non upkept city streets. As for power well lets just say the go kart I just bought for the kids xmas present will easily outrun this thing and probably out tow it as well, very sad but I could deal with it if needed.

Now I should mention I'm no stranger to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck since I've owned both and daily drive a chevy 2500HD diesel truck that rides great for what it is so I understand these 1 tons wont ride like my wifes 09 camry.

Next we hopped in the chevy we were both very impress at how quiet it was at idle compared to the ford as well as the much nicer dash components and steering wheel feel. The seats were also a better fit for both our small frames, even the shifter had a good positive feel when going in gear. The chevy was by far the smoother ride, it wasnt even a comparison really everything from the lot speed bumps to the same roads as the previous test drive the chevy had a smoother ride in everyway, whereas the ford had a severe jarring shock to bumps and holes the chevy had more of a smooth rolling sensation. For power the chevy blows the ford away with ease, it was rediculous how much more powerful the 6.0L and 6spd auto transmission felt compared to the fords 5.4L and 4 spd.

At the end of the test drives we were shocked at the difference in quality and comfort the chevy had over the ford at least in our opinions. We are now leaning towards the chevy since it will probably fit our needs better.

This all brings about my question, why do I see so many E series ford vans used in these conversions instead of the much smoother riding more powerful chevy vans? What is it about the fords that makes them more popular? Could it be looks? options? slightly more room? initial price? What is it? I dont get it. The ones I drove were very similarly equipped and seemed to be very close in room so I dont get it. Looks are in the eye of the beholder but you cant argue the chevy has way more power and a much smoother ride, do people just not care about that? Are there other problems I need to be aware of with the express van that the E series doesnt have? maybe lack of gadgets?

Thanks for the help everyone.
Randy
 

alexrex20

Explorer
i've wondered the same thing as well. for the past few years, only Chevy/GMC have offered the diesel in their 1ton vans. if you're leaning towards the Chevy Express, i would suggest you look around for a van with the Duramax.

maybe the Ford is easier to convert to straight-axle 4x4?
 

BajaBus

Adventurer
I have an '06 Express 3500 long-wheelbase cargo van (empty shell no windows) for work and love it. I have it packed to the gills with cargo and it never feels underpowered. I also have an E350 V10 and it feels underpowered all the time. A 5.4 would be a joke for a SMB in my opinion.

There are so many deals on vans right now one Bay but all things considered, if I were in the market to put together a van, I'd go with a P/S E350. I do agree that the Express "feels" much more solid, quiet and equipped though!
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
The reason you see more Fords vans around is because 1) Fords are cheap 2) Fords are cheap 3) Fords are cheap and easier to convert to SFA 4x4 4) Upfitters love Fords because they are cheap and their margins are higher after they upfit the interior and sell the van as a package to an end user.

In Fords defense on the handling and noise, I must say the E platform is older than dirt. Perhaps one of the oldest platforms still used by any US manufacturer. The E-platform goes back to the early 70’s where the van got a new body in 1993 or so and new OHC engines in the late 90’s. The OHC engines make impressive power on paper but in the real world when you get behind the wheel and step on the gas pedal, all the van does is make a loud vacuum cleaner suction sound while the vehicle propels in slow motion. The 4.6L, 5.4L and 6.8L are also notorious for spitting out spark plugs and breaking off electrodes in the cylinder during tune-ups. However, my favorite is a Ford E-van with a 6.0L Powerstroke. Now there are two engineering misfortunate marvels balled up into one convent package, but yet people throw $100,000+ to get one that is all decked out. Anytime after about 80,000 miles the 6.0L diesel will be overdue for an 8-pack of injectors for around $3000, a high pressure oil pump, EGR Cooler, and the list goes on and on. I know that engine well and it works best in a boat where you can throw it overboard with a chain attached so you can fish in the same spot for weeks at a time without moving.

You can’t beat the GM van with the gas 6.0L and 6L90 trans then pay a little more for a 4x4 upfit than what the Ford guys would pay. Once you are done, you definitely have a more durable product at the end of the day.
 

Saline

Adventurer
To the above post, yes the Ford 6.0PSD has issues but not all of them do. To say that they require all of the parts stated at 80k miles is false, plain and simple.

The E-series 6.0L PSD does not have nearly as many problems as the F-series. This is due to the fact that the E series PSD is rated to put out what International designed it to. It has 80 less hp than the F series. It has lower EGT's and among other things, it doesn't have the head gasket problems like the F series brethren.

I'm not really defending the 6.0 PSD, just pointing out that there is a lot of mis-information out there. There are more Ford PSD's out there than Dodge and Chevy combined.

BTW, I drive a Chevy 3500 Duramax at work (ambulance) every 3rd shift. I like it. It's comfortable, quiet and powerful. I like the dash and console better than my E 350. My only gripe about it is the compression braking is almost non existent.
 

cwsqbm

Explorer
The reason you see more Fords vans around is because 1) Fords are cheap 2) Fords are cheap 3) Fords are cheap and easier to convert to SFA 4x4 4) Upfitters love Fords because they are cheap and their margins are higher after they upfit the interior and sell the van as a package to an end user. .

"Cheap"? Fords cost more than a comparable Chevy, not less, whether it be 1/2 ton or 1-ton extended cargo van. Fords are more popular because for many years, Chevy vans were junk. The new ones aren't as bad, although they are still ugly.

You strike me as someone with a Calvin sticker in your rear window.
 

The Swiss

Expedition Leader
I would consider myself as pretty impartial as I'm a Jeeper :sombrero:

I rent once or twice per year a full size van (lighter duty 1/2 ton) to drive from NW GA to Detroit and back; always same route, always similar load. Sometimes Enterprise gives me a Chebby, sometimes a Ford. My observation is that the Chebbies get about 1 - 2 mpg better gas mileage as the Ford.

Short body model, I for sure prefer the GM; extended body, the Ford - gaining the additional length with the rear overhang vs Chevy with a longer wheelbase - the Ford feels handier. Over all, I still think the Chevy has a slight edge over the Ford.
 

carcrafter22

Adventurer
So you guys seem to be agreeing with me. I'm gathering it mainly boils down to price, at least thats my guess. I see so many fords on the road and rarely ever see an express van which makes me think like its trucks ford has the market cornered on fleet and comercial sales for its vans as well.

Dont get me wrong like I said I'm impartial these days and go for whatever vehicle best fits my needs for reliability, comfort,looks, power, mpgs, etc and in this instance I think the chevy wins hands down.

I'm a pretty good fabricator so I think I may just come up with my own 4x4 conversion using a solid axle later on.

Thanks everyone.
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
"Cheap"? Fords cost more than a comparable Chevy, not less, whether it be 1/2 ton or 1-ton extended cargo van. Fords are more popular because for many years, Chevy vans were junk. The new ones aren't as bad, although they are still ugly.

You strike me as someone with a Calvin sticker in your rear window.

No, sir. Don’t even have a set of Truck Nutz hanging from my bumper. I handle a fleet of over 3,000 of these and nobody will be able to convince me that the 6.0L diesel can be accused of being reliable or durable. The fact is Fords are cheap when you figure in their aggressive capital equalization adjustments, factory to dealer spoofs, fleet deals that they provide to fleets and commercial dealers where most upfitters purchase their vans. You may have paid more than what a GM van would have cost but, someone didn’t and made a good chunk of change in the meantime.

Ford can give that van away at the Bill of Materials cost and still happy being they kept the plant running, UAW guys in work and powertrain guys in works then hope it makes it out of warranty so they don’t have to tap into the warranty accruals or they lose money on them. They have been doing that for years and why they have the corner of the commercial van market. It is a known fact in the commercial industry Ford sells these vans as a loss leader. You strike me as an E-van with a Powerstroke owner defending your purchase. That is okay.
 

deserteagle56

Adventurer
Actually, there are two major reasons that the conversion companies are reluctant to convert GM vans to solid-axle 4x4.

I had been driving my 1976 GMC 4x4 van for 32 years when it became apparent that I either had to put a lot of money in it to keep it dependable, or get something newer. My van:
CampCherryValley.jpg


I wanted a diesel for the low-end torque and the mileage and I was afraid of the Ford 6.0 so I decided to spec out a Chevy Express with the Duramax. The first thing I found out was that the van Duramax engine was very much derated compared to what was put in the pickups - about 200 lb-ft of torque less. Also, the Allison tranny was not available in the van behind the Duramax - only a smaller Hydramatic.

I then called 4 of the conversion companies to get estimates of what it would cost to convert the van to solid-axle 4x4. I had extensive conversations with the folks at Quadvan, Salem-Kroger, Quigley and some outfit in Salt Lake I don't remember the name of (this was 2 years ago). Without exception, they were all reluctant to work on a GM van, and that was for two major reasons.

1) Since GM does not make a solid-axle pickup any more, the donated front axle would be a Ford Dana 60 as used in the F350. That presents problems in that the bolt pattern is different, and you end up with a bastard vehicle running both Ford and GM parts. Ford will still allow a full factory warranty on a Ford van converted to 4x4 using Ford parts - but GM will not.

2) Frame stiffness - apparently the GM van frame has a lot of flex in it, and to convert it for heavy 4x4 use requires stiffening the frame. One of the conversion outfits sent me a photo of a GMC van all crossed up, with one front wheel and one rear wheel pretty much off the ground. The front bumper on the van had deflected so much due to the frame twisting that it had bent the body sheet metal above the bumper. The Ford frame is massive and flexes not at all.

That's not say they wouldn't convert a GM van, they just wanted me to know that it would be more costly and not work as well. Especially on an extended-body van, as GM stretches the wheelbase on those to 155 inches - that's 30 inches longer than the wheelbase on my 1976 (which itself was the long-wheelbase version of GM's van back then!). Not good for back-country maneuvering!

It seems to me that if one were not into extreme off-roading, the AWD Express van, with a mild lift and better, bigger tires, would work out just fine and let a guy have that good GM powertrain.
 

Accrete

Explorer
Fwiw...

Greetings,
I know U R looking at the 3/4 or 1t vans, and i have a 1/2t 2010 Express AWD... Just thought i'd share that our 1st 500 miles have been a dream. Very nice ride and comfortable. Neither of us have felt any bad-mannerisms road handling wise. We did not like the test ride on the Ford products as well as the Chevy/GMC. . . and we are die hard Toyota ppl. And for us it is not Chevy over Fords necessarily...as we totally luved the Ford F250 & F350 trucks over the Chevy/GMC line of trucks.

best wishes on your decision.
thom
 

loren85022

Explorer
Give and Take

I read this and find it very interesting. As a teenager in the early 80's I used a ford van for work. I just bought a 2008 XLT Quigley 5.4. I swear the dash cluster is the same. The sloppy tranny-shift is embarrassing. I keep looking for the 8-track player!

It's still getting a few more modifications but my early road tests didn't leave feeling much love for the 5.4 engine.

I am still thrilled to have the van and the chance to explore. But I'm not sure I'll ever be a Ford Guy.
 

carcrafter22

Adventurer
Greetings,
I know U R looking at the 3/4 or 1t vans, and i have a 1/2t 2010 Express AWD... Just thought i'd share that our 1st 500 miles have been a dream. Very nice ride and comfortable. Neither of us have felt any bad-mannerisms road handling wise. We did not like the test ride on the Ford products as well as the Chevy/GMC. . . and we are die hard Toyota ppl. And for us it is not Chevy over Fords necessarily...as we totally luved the Ford F250 & F350 trucks over the Chevy/GMC line of trucks.

best wishes on your decision.
thom

I read this and find it very interesting. As a teenager in the early 80's I used a ford van for work. I just bought a 2008 XLT Quigley 5.4. I swear the dash cluster is the same. The sloppy tranny-shift is embarrassing. I keep looking for the 8-track player!

It's still getting a few more modifications but my early road tests didn't leave feeling much love for the 5.4 engine.

I am still thrilled to have the van and the chance to explore. But I'm not sure I'll ever be a Ford Guy.

You guys pretty much summed it up for me. I've come to the same conclusions. My wife and I were in total shock how much better the chevy handles, accelerates (huge difference there), etc etc. Since this will be primarily a road trip vehicle and see 95% or more of its time on paved roads I am convinced it will keep us feeling "fresh" at the end of the day compared to the weak power and rough ride of the ford.

We are planning this to be a long distance road vehicle for trips from our home here in texas to places like the grand canyon, alaska, niagra falls, etc and while were home it can still pull our bass boat and give us a place to stay for a week at a time while fishing and camping.

I completely understand the long wheel base argument but I think its a benefit for our situation instead of a hinderance since we wont be rock crawling in it lol.

I'm also really liking the new for 2010 (at least in the van) 6spd automatic trans and L92 engine.
 

loren85022

Explorer
Also

I read this and find it very interesting. As a teenager in the early 80's I used a ford van for work. I just bought a 2008 XLT Quigley 5.4. I swear the dash cluster is the same. The sloppy tranny-shift is embarrassing. I keep looking for the 8-track player!
Sq
It's still getting a few more modifications but my early road tests didn't leave feeling much love for the 5.4 engine.

I am still thrilled to have the van and the chance to explore. But I'm not sure I'll ever be a Ford Guy.

I forgot to mention how attractive it is to have dual sliding doors. Chevy took a page from the minivan world.
 

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