+d's grand cherokee - mod's/thinking outloud

[+ d]

Make: Jeep
Model: Grand Cherokee Laredo
Year: 2004
Engine: 4.0L
Trans: Auto
T-Case: SelectTrac NV242, 2wd, 4Hi full, 4Hi part, 4lo
Front Axle: Dana 30
Rear Axle: Dana 35 w/Auburn ECTED Locker
Tires: 255/70-16 BFG AT
Wheels: Stock 16x7 Sliverblade

Additional Modifications:
Front Suspension: Rusty's 2.5" lift Springs +.75" Spacer,
10" Bilstein 5150's, Limiting straps
Rear Suspension: Rusty's 2.5" lift Springs
Protection: KOR rock sliders, Jeep Front Skid Plate, Jeep Transfer Case Skid Plate
Recovery: Jeep Front Tow Hooks, Jeep Rear Tow Hitch w/ Warn Shackle
Stillen Rotors & Composite Pads
Old Man Emu Steering Stabilizer (Blacked Out!)
Aluminum Spare + Spare Tire Well Storage Mod
Cobra WX ST CB w/ Little Wil mag antenna, quick disconnect
Hella Black Magic Auxiliary Lights
K&N FIPK
Silblades
Comfort Mods: Steering Wheel Radio Controls, Front Seat Swap,
Lighted Sun Visors, Cabin Air Filter, "shaved" antenna, ION Ipod Interface
Accessory Department: Hilift+Offroad Kit+Lift Mate, MV-50, Oasis Deflators

Pending Installations:
Spring Retainers!
Rear 10" Bilstein 5150's + Limiting Straps
Custom Headlight Harness + Hella Bulbs

On the Drawing Board:
Auxiliary Power System
Sway Bar Disconnects


Pipe Dreams:
4" Lift & 235/85-16's
Exhaust/Headers
Mojave/BajaTaco style Hide-a-winch
Currie Rear End


Some Pictures:



Locker Thoughts....
after watching a totally stock tacoma trd (w/ locker) driven by an offroad novice walk through an twisty turny wash that made my jeep barf up its springs I've decided it was time for a locker. My old man/copilot likes the idea and has expressed interest in helping me out. I've been researching these for a while, it seems like the next logical step for me.

part of my program for modifications is that it doesn't substantially alter or complicate the way the jeep drives and looks. it is currently our (me + wife) only vehicle. so naturally my preference is for a selectable locker. these are what I understand my options to be:

ARB - Air actuated - $ 750 + $ 265 = $1015
pros: most popular option, forces onboard air, relatively easy to operate (2 buttons), easy to mount buttons, matching front locker available
cons: most expensive option (by far), air line actuation doesn't inspire confidence, most popular option (why follow the herd)

OX - Cable activated - $ 690 + $ 80 = $770
pros: reportedly bullet proof, comes with beefy (good looking) diff. cover, low tech, able to lock/unlock at diff if actuator fails, matching front locker available
cons: expensive option, mounting/placing/routing of cable and lever limited and maybe difficult (and more invasive), cable actuation may not be totally user friendly,


Auburn Ected - electric (supposedly available soon) - $ 550
pros: least expensive, push button operation, simple to mount switch and run wires..right?
cons: marketed as a traction control device...appears to wire into vehicle brain?, unsure of actual operation..not yet available



to complicate the matter part of me wants to take the opportunity to really gold plate the whole situation and upgrade my axles at the same time. dana 35's don't have a good reputation when it comes to big tires and torque (which isn't my situation now..but could be down the road). In which case I would be looking at one of the "Super 35" (or similar) kits from Superior, Yukon or Alloy Usa. These kits allow for a beefy 30 spline axle (dana 44 sized), I'd need a special Dana 35 30-spline locker, which appear to be available for all lockers listed above. This Yukon kit adds 'ONLY' an extra $200 (though installation cost will increase as well I'm sure). Of course all of this hinges on finding an axle for the WJ or adapting to my 5x5 bolt pattern (which is different than every other jeep...%$!*ing Chrysler)

So, I'd really like some input from you guys. I'm anticipating a large number of votes for the ARB but something really draws me to the OX. Thoughts???

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

+d,
I don't know anything about the other lockers but I love the ARB. It's fast, reliable and... well, instant on/off is pretty awesome

I really don't know much about ZJ's but I wheeled w/ a bunch of Jeeps awhile back and this ZJ was flexing really nicely. It had fr/rr ARB's

 

[cshontz]

David,
I found this post on another forum, which reinforces my opinion as to which one you should use. You may install an OX and have no problems, but if you do have problems, it is questionable as to whether or not you'd have support for the product. For such an integral part of your four-wheel drive system, this issue alone make it very undesirable in my opinion.

They can say what they want about OX, BUT, its a company with a poor history at best and at worst you might own an OX with no company backing. Whether or not OX is good, better or great on the engineering front is still questionable. Early on they had some issues, supposedly resolved. Unless you wheel Sonic drive in or the field behind your house, I would be concerned on spare parts availability and company support.

I'm not poor-mouthing OX, just laying out facts.

ARB, established company, in use worldwide, parts availablilty, strong and they work.

OX may be better and stronger than ARB, the company may have ample funding to get a business foothold, grow and thrive. BUT for the time being, I put my money on the horse that I know will finsh the race, time and time again...

There are numerous ARB dealers all across the country that can perform expert installs, and expert service. Spare parts are in abundance, and we know the company isn't going to disappear anytime soon. The ARB Air-Lockers are time tested, and generally very reliable if properly installed and cared for. The ARB Air-Locker would be my recommendation.

I don't know anything about the electric lockers, but I'd trust a product from Auburn or Eaton. In any case, availability is a problem there.

Are you absolutely sure that's a Dana 35 you're equipped with? I know alot of the Grand Cherokees, both ZJ and WJ run an aluminum Dana 44 rear axle, but that might be for the V8 models.

I think a Superior axle upgrade (or Yukon equivalent) would be a wise choice with a Dana 35. The low cost, relative simplicity (compared to full axle swap), and added benefit of the modification would go a long way - providing you can find shafts with the appropriate bolt pattern. Or you could probably switch to a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern pretty easily, but that would obviously require new wheels.

The Superior axle kit happens to be available with an ARB locker, which may allow you to kill two birds with one stone. You may have trouble finding compatible lockers if you ever choose to replace your ARB with something else. I think you might also need different part numbers for bearings and seals, so if you go with a Dana 35 upgrade, you might want to jot those part numbers down on a note and throw it in your glove compartment. They should still be common parts, so I don't think availability would be a problem.

The reputation of the Dana 35 upgrade kits is generally very good.

The weakness of the Dana 35 is exagerrated somewhat within the Jeep community. It is true - it is a weak unit that is prone to failure, but I don't think this failure is inevitable until one runs 33" diameter tires. However, I think if your off-road interests are expeditionary in nature, your vehicle might be heavier, and you might be driving further, so ... better safe than sorry!

 

[+ d]

thanks for your responses guys. i definitely have the Dana35, as my WJ is the 6 cylinder. Chris i appreciate the feedback on the OX brand, i cannot argue with the parts/availability logic. that can certainly help justify the added expense...in addition to the ease of installation, adding onboard air, etc.

i am certain that i will upgrade the axles at the same time. the grand isn't really big tire friendly...at a 2.5" lift i've got 30" tires and when i get up to 4" i'll be ready for 32" but that's where i'll probably max out. so i think i'll be safe with the dana 35.

the crux is the bolt pattern issues, ideally i could have a machine shop redrill and tap the new axles (is this feasible?). otherwise i am into conversion spacers, which will push my rear wheels out an inch (i'd have to space the fronts to match). new wheels aren't really an option since the front axle will still be at 5x5. Superior said they would do a custom axle but that it would be $$$.

 

[cshontz]

I've only looked at the Superior kit, but the pictured axle shaft shows multiple bolt patterns. The one pattern is obviously 5 on 4.5, but I wouldn't be surprised if the other is 5 on 5.

 

[calamaridog]

+d,

So here is my question. Why can't you pull a used D44 out of a late model WJ and go from there. I would rather have the stock D44, stock axles, etc. than the Super 35 stuff.

What is your gear ratio?

And why the heck did they do 5x5 instead of the standard bolt pattern? Damn them:Wow1:

 

[Scott Brady]

The OX lockers have a reputation for being strong, but for having issues with engaging and disengaging easily. There are also issues with cables being damaged if you back into a rock. The engagement issue might not be that big of a deal with the rear axle.

The ARB's are the fastest of all lockers. Instant on.

It might be kind of cool to install one of the Jeep hydralic posi traction units in the front diff. Like the ones from the Quadratrac II Grands.

 

[OverlandZJ]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

Are WJ and ZJ rear axles interchangable? I think they might be.

If that's the case and your not in a hurry...i routinely see XJ rear 44's with GC brackets and Ford 8.8 with GC brackets occasionally for sale on the web. You may luck out and get the right selectable locker and gear ratio also.....and save alot of change. With the 4.0L and 32's you'd be good with 4:10 or 4:56 ratio.

The XJ rear 44 will be the same width, but you'd have the 4.5" bolt pattern. New shafts from Dutchman ~$125 (XJ shafts dont have enough material to redrill to 5.5").

The 95+ Ford Explorer 8.8 will be slightly narrower but you could use spacers that also swap the bolt pattern to 5.5" and end up with a near stock GC width. The 95+ would come with factory rear discs also.

I realize your only planning on 32's max but i dont see any reason to throw money into a rear axle that's weak point spits a tire out from under the vehicle.

 

[calamaridog]

I have a KJ (Liberty) and it comes with the Corporate (Chrysler) 8.25" axle. This axle is fairly stout, especially compared to the D35. Some of the KJ's came with D44's I think.

03 KJ's had rear disc brakes too. This may be a possible swap also. An 03+ KJ Corporate 8.4 or D44.

I just don't understand why they would stick a D35 under the rear of that thing? You got cheated by some Suit somewhere.

Do you have ABS and/or rear discs?

I agree you should start looking for a beefier rear axle to start this build, if you can. I'll keep my eyes open:Wow1:

Try giving these guys a call:

http://www.jwjeep.com/index.html

And search wrecking yards online.

 

[cshontz]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will.

 

[cshontz]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will.

 

[OverlandZJ]

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will.

That's what i remember also Chris, the smaller OD and wall thickness of the tubes combined with the oval shape of the D35's center section did tend to cause enough deflection to explode lockers. Maybe their solution was conical side gears?..:hehe:

The Superior upgrade....does that eliminate the c-clip's also? I'v never followed the kits.

 

[+ d]

all excellent thoughts guys... in general i agree with the why-waste-money-on-the-weak-link philosophy but i think an axle swap is an exponential step that i am not ready to take. If there was a more plug and play option out there i might be more into it. but abs and discs complicate things. i have access to a full metal shop but i can't be vehicle-less for any duration. interesting thought on the kj's never heard of anyone going that route seems most guys that do axle swaps on the WJ's go big...9" sunray, currie, etc. unfortunately the dana 44 on the V8 wj's is actually a dana 44a (as in aluminium) and up until this month no one even made any locker for it at all (let alone selectable).

i still have mucho mas research to do. but the feedback i've been getting from some of the axle guys is that the dana 35's weaknesses can be overcome...stronger axles to prevent shearing the splines and a truss to prevent flex, which apparently happens only right at the diff housing.

the bolt spacing is still yet to be solved as well, the superior super 35 axles come with 5on4.5 and 5on5.5 doh! but i did get a lead on just having custom axles made from Moser Engineering i got a phone quote of $315 tops...interesting

 

[sacto_patrol]

Right now the only locker option on the ZJ and WJ Dana 44 aluminum is the aussie locker. I think the KJ axle will be much to short. To bad because I like the 8.25" axle. I had that in my 99 XJ and ran 35's all over the 'con and fordyce with no breakage, with a detorit. The 8.25" is just as tough as the 44, just has c-clips.

You are right as their is no cheap plug and play option. A 35 with axle upgrades will handle 32's with out a problem, plus you gain added clearance. The one thing is the axle housing is easy to bend. If you truss it you be fine and I am not talking about one of those bolt on truss.

 

[calamaridog]

I believe the rear track of the KJ 8.25 is aroung 59" and so is the WJ rear end. You could definitely pull an 8.25 with disc brakes out of a 03+ Liberty Limited, many of which were equipped with ABS. I believe this would be as close to bolt-in as you will find.

Sticking with the 35, trussing it, and doing the Super 35 upgrade sounds like a good plan of action. Good luck +d, when you are ready to test the locker, I'll tag along:jump: