Beretta PX4 Storm, Smith & Wesson BodyGuards

[Optimistic Paranoid]

My friend shoots the whitebox Winchester 45 ACP 230 gr ball ammo.

. . .It is a good all around round for target or home defense.
Not sure if I will spend the extra money for hollow points or not at this time for home/camping defense.

Ball ammo - aka Full Metal Jacket or fmj - is widely known for being over penetrative. You are both legally and morally responsible for every round you send downrange.

If you shoot a bad guy, and your bullet goes clear through him and also hits an innocent bystander behind him, you ARE gonna be arrested for shooting the bystander, no matter how legally justified you were to shoot the bad guy!

FMJ 45 acp DOES have a wonderful reputation as a highly effective anti-personnel round, but it got it on the BATTLEFIELD, where no one cared if it went through one enemy and hit another one.

I have a fair amount of training in this. I was an armored car guard for a number of years, and I'm a graduate of Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute and a few other well known places. I'm happy to use cheaper fmj for training and practice, but when I'm carrying in public, my guns are loaded with hollow points. Yours should be too.

Regards
John

 

[02TahoeMD]

Not sure if I will spend the extra money for hollow points or not at this time for home/camping defense.

Bad idea Corey....as already pointed out. That HP ammo will transfer energy into a living target way more efficiently than FMJ ever would think of. If you are shooting in a home, FMJ ammo can go through multiple walls before slowing down. (we had an incident at work a couple years ago where a FMJ round went through an apartment firewall and through four other levels of drywall before killing a bookcase) I would spend $50 or $60 for two boxes of good, quality HP ammunition and consider it money well spent. Get one box to run through the gun to make sure it feeds and to see how it prints on paper, and the other box for actual defense loadout. When the chips are down, do you want to trust your life to a $15 box of FMJ or something a bit more expensive? What is your life, and that of those under your care, worth? Personal recommendations are Federal Hydra Shok or Remington Golden Sabre. I rely on both every day.

If your home defense environment has neighbors close by (like an apt or townhouse setting), you may also want to look into Mag Safe Ammo to prevent any issues of overpenetration.

I know you said you have the laser to keep you from missing your target, but shooting at a living, angry target attempting to do you harm can be quite difficult. Police shootings usually only average about a 20% hit rate and they get way more training than the average Joe. Thus, you need to be realistic and prepared for whatever may happen. It is the responsible thing to do. You are already well under way with a couple of fine weapons systems, and the Glock .45 with Surefire light is a win-win choice. Just don't shortchange yourself in the ammo department.

 

[Corey]

Thanks guy's for the info on the hollow point ammo.
It sounds like I should keep one or two mags full then of the hollow point stuff.
I will check into the Mag Safe stuff, and also the Federal stuff.
A few boxes of the latter to see how it works at the range and keep a few mags full would be good.

I use the Federal XM 193 ball ammo 5.56 in my AR15.
That gun def is overkill for home defense, hence why I got the Glock.
It is good for zombies though

A future item I will be looking into will be a good safe.
So many choices out there, I really do not need a huge one.
One that can hold a few rifles, as in addition to the AR15, I will be getting the S&W AR15-22 MOE later, and the safe would need a shelf for a handgun and a place to store several cases of ammo.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

Good plan on the safe. As owners of a firearms, we are responsible for keeping them out of the wrong hands.

Good advice on the self defense rounds also, along that line, for those who do handload, you should never use handloads for self defense rounds, but always use a factory produced self defense round.

Using handloads can land you some serious legal problems should you ever get into a situation where you do fire your weapon.

 

[Corey]

One of the mags I bought a few weeks back has a good article in it on safes, so I will be doing some research this week.

I also checked out those Magsafe rounds, lots of $$$.
They have two types for 45 ACP.

.45 ACP #45D + P Defender 96 1,660/588 - Officers; 1,760/660 - 5" S&W 645 22.95 General Defense Use

.45 ACP #45SS + P SUPER SWAT 68 2,260/771 - S&W 4506 Standard springs OK 22.95 Stronger! Now OK for Glock 21

It looks like the latter Swat choice is the best for less wall penetration.
$22.95 for 8 rounds.
Not the type of round you want to be using at the range.
I would buy two boxes and keep two mags with 8 rounds each in them for while in the home.

 

[Corey]

Bought the Glock 30 today

Been scoping out info as of late on a smaller gun for concealed carry, and after much research I was going to go with the Glock 30SF, and I even put money down on one, but canceled it today.
While the 30 series comes with double stack 10 round mags and can use the 13 round ones from my Glock 21SF, I went with the smaller capacity Glock 36 at 6 rounds.
Same 45 ACP caliber as my Glock 21SF, so the ammo will be interchangeable.
Why did I go with the 36 over the 30SF?
The 36 is much slimmer being a single stack magazine, and 4 rounds less is not all that bad, especially if carrying another magazine on the opposite side of you.

Oh yeah, I learned a few things today at the shop.
Some of those concealed holsters that have the extra magazine pouch on them is not all that great.
Say for instance you have your holster on the right side and you want to grab another magazine, kind of awkward trying to grab another one from the right side.
With an extra magazine pouch on the left side, it is much easier to grab one.

My Glock 21SF is concealable if you want to wear bulkier clothing, but I wanted something a little smaller that I can wear during the summer months without having excess clothing on.

Here are some good links on the Glock 36.
http://oneoldvet.com/?p=16368
http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/45/36/

They were out of extra magazines for it and the Truglo fiber optic/tritium sites like I have on my Glock 21SF, so I will have to pick those up later.

I picked up a holster for the Glock 36 that fits inside of the pants, as I did not want to buy a holster that required a heavy leather belt for when you wear an external holster, as most of the pants/shorts I wear have built in belts already.
The holster is the Galco Stow-N-Go Inside The Pant model for the right hand.
Amazon used for reference only.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Galco-Stow-N-Go-Inside-Holster-Glock/dp/B003UGYP6G"]Amazon.com: Galco Stow-N-Go Inside The Pant Holster for Glock 19, 23, 32: Sports & Outdoors[/ame]

I have on order some MagSafe swat load ammo that is a good defense round as having low penetration if inside a home, but I was told by the shop today it is not the best for the smaller barrel Glock 36, so the ammo on order will be used for the Glock 21SF for personal defense.
If at the range, the Winchester white box 230 gr ball ammo is fine for either gun.

For personal defense for the new Glock, one of the counter guy's recommend Speer Gold Dot 45 auto plus P 200 gr to use in the new gun.
http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?c...5 ACP +P 200 gr Gold Dot HP Ammunition 20/box

Also there is no rail system on the Glock 36, so I will not be mounting the Surefire X400 to it.

Here are some pictures of the new gun.

First up is a size comparison of the 21SF verses the 36

Another one with the 36 overlaid on top of the 21SF

36 by itself with a magazine form the 21SF and the 36, speed loader, and the new hollow points in the box
By the way, the counter guy told me I could not use my speed loader I had bought for the double stack magazines for the 21SF on the single stack magazines for the 36.
Wrong, it works just fine, and the speed loader is way better than using the thing that Glock gives you.

Shot of the Glocks in my new safe

A few shots with the Galco holster

Next time I get to the range I will shoot both of the Glocks to get a feel in the difference of them since the 36 is a lot smaller, and I will have to watch out for the "pinky pinch" as described in the Glock 36 article I posted above.

 

[Corey]

Thanks John, I think I read about that ammo in one of my recent gun magazines where they listed a bunch of good ammo.

Thanks, I really like the Glocks.
So easy to take apart and clean.

 

[LACamper]

Don't shoot someone else's reloads. A double charge is bad. A short charge can be just as bad if not worse (sometimes the entire charge detonates straight up and puts the breech into your face. Not good.). If you don't trust them to load your parachute then don't trust them to reload your ammo. White box winchester is fine. Monarch or blaser is fine. Just buy it in a store and make sure it has a label on it.
Whatever ammo you're going to carry as your self defense ammo, shoot at least a couple of boxes first. Make sure it works ok in your gun. I'm not that picky on brand, as long as its a decent hollow point.
lasers are over rated IMHO. Make sure you can hit with the sights in case the laser doesn't turn on when you need it.
Good choice on the light. Dedicate one to your pistol.
That holster is ok for now. They're cheap and they work ok. If you start carrying regularly then look into a good custom made holster. I'm partial to K&D for smaller pistols. I haven't found the right holster for my 1911 yet... I think I'm on my 3rd... latest is the blackhawk leather. Just not there yet...
Over penetration is a big issue. Believe it or not, your AR is a better choice for home defense. Best site for penetration issues is here:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Finally, money spent on more gadgets and options is better spent on quality training and practice ammo.

 

[dwh]

lasers are over rated IMHO. Make sure you can hit with the sights in case the laser doesn't turn on when you need it.

I agree about the laser. As for the sights...you might not be able to use them either. Probably won't actually.

After a healthy shot of adrenaline, you'll very likely be shaky as hell. Also, in a split-second situation, you don't have time to aim with sights OR jink around trying to visually acquire a red laser dot and move it into position on a target.

Practice "point shooting" because that's what you'll need when the fecal matter meets the rotary impeller.

 

[Corey]

I would never run reloads in any of my guns, not even if I did the reloading, as I do not even know how
Never got into that in the past.

I am happy to pay the ammo manufacturers $$$ for their loads.

The MagSafe Swat Load in 45 ACP 68 gr came today.
From the package:

2,660 feet per second
771 ft lbs
Pre fragmented, no ricochets or over penetration.
The most potent handgun ammo in the world
Our weakest .380 outguns the hottest 45 ACP
Less recoil, more energy, stopping power

I was already warned by the salesman when I bought the G36 last weekend to not use this as it will not gain enough velocity out of the short barrel, but it is OK to run in the G21SF.

This stuff is expensive though, I will not be buying it again, and I will more than likely run the JHP Gold Dot P ammo for defense in both of the Glocks.

Still waiting for the store to get the Truglo TFO sights in, as they are really easy to see with the green on them.
Lights up during the day and night.

I do kind of wish the G36 had a rail slot on it though for a light since this will be my primary carry weapon when out at all hours when not at work.
Having the light on the G21SF kind of spoils you.

Yeah, I agree, the laser is more for effect.
I am sure if I was ever put into a situation where I actually have to defend myself the light is going to be more handy for blinding the perp, and believe me, 170 lumens is pretty blinding in the eye.

If I can find some spare time this weekend, I would like to hit the local indoor range and fire off a hundred rounds or so through the new gun.

 

[Viggen]

My condolences on the purchase of the Glock. Nothing I hate more than a Glock. They just feel like garbage to me. That Storm, on the other hand, is a very nice gun. I was actually shopping this week and the Storm was on the top of the list. Smooth, great trigger, good sights, well balanced and great safeties. Not to mention a better grip than anything on a Glock (did I mention that I hate Glocks?).

Nice safe though.

 

[Corey]

My condolences on the purchase of the Glock. Nothing I hate more than a Glock. They just feel like garbage to me. That Storm, on the other hand, is a very nice gun. I was actually shopping this week and the Storm was on the top of the list. Smooth, great trigger, good sights, well balanced and great safeties. Not to mention a better grip than anything on a Glock (did I mention that I hate Glocks?).

Nice safe though.

Thanks on the safe, I dig it.
Actually I have shot quite a few guns over my life, and IMO I like the Glocks the best.

So easy to break down, so easy to clean, and from what I have read in reviews they never jam or have problems, they simply work.

I also like the looks of them very much, and they fit my hands well.

I prefer these over a 1911 or any other type of handgun out there.
I also like the light weight of them compared to an all steel gun.

 

[Viggen]

Yeah, the safe is pretty nice. Ive just got a cheapo full size for my rifles and shotguns bolted to a couple of studs in the wall. I thought about getting a nicer one but I break most of my shotguns down and store them in airline cases and store the rest of the rifles and shotguns in sleeves.

Im an all steel guy. I shot a few Glocks but I hated the safety system on them, trigger feel, grip angle, grip shape and, well, just about everything about them. For me and my size hand, nothing gets better than the shape and feel of a full size steel gun. My normal shoot is a single action CZ 75B. All steel and will always just work. Its broken down in under 30 seconds too. Browning High Powers comes in a VERY close second. The Beretta PX4 and the FNH FNX come as close as it can get when it comes to poly frame. Every time I think about picking up a poly frame, the moment I pick one up, the differences are just too much. Sure a steel frame is a little heavier but they just feel right.

 

[Greggk]

i will echo what has been said before.. i dont like the Beretta PX4.. just dont like it.

Check out the Walther P99 (biggest available is the .40), the Sig Sauer P229 (thats what I bought), and the Springfield XD-M. You will always encounter the Glock nut-swingers, but I personally dont find them all that special. STAY AWAY FROM HI-POINT!!!! seen to many of them with blown out chambers and slides..

 

[Metcalf]

I'm kinda bummed I missed this threads beginning....anyways, few things.

-Don't get to caught up in caliber and bullet type. Accurate and efficient shot placement is going to make the most difference.

-Shoot what you feel comfortable with. If a Glock works for you then a Glock works for you. For me, they tend to naturally 'point' low for my body kinematics. For an exercise, ( empty firearm ) stand in front of your target ( a sheet of paper works just fine ) at about 7 yards. With your eyes closed draw from your holster onto the target. Once you 'think' you are on target, open your eyes and check your sight picture. This will tell you a lot....

-Dry fire practice is generally free. You really can't do too much of it. Practice drawing from the holster, reloads, malfunctions, etc. Do this 10X as much as your shoot. If your worried about 'dry-fire' get a set of snap-caps or training rounds.

-Sights. Don't get too caught up in the night sight dayglow thing. A wider rear notch helps front sight acquisition a lot. Also, multiple dot sights tend to get confusing under stress and at night. Personally. I have found a single front 'dot' on the front sight post to work the best. It confuses most people the least. With a practiced grip and presentation you should pick up that single dot no matter what without having to 'look' for it or try and 'organize' the multiple dots ( especially if they are the same color! )

-Practice Practice Practice.

-I am not against shooting hand loads for practice. This is one of the only ways for me to get enough trigger time for me. For carry, I suggest against shooting hand loads. Not so much for the reliability, but for the legal aspect. The last thing you want a jury hearing is....'Mr. Smith, can you tell us more about your super hot hand loads that where in your firearm when you shot Mr . Jones?'

One thing to remember also, if your going to shoot expensive custom box ammunition for defense, you need to TEST it! Never rely on anything that hasn't been tested in YOUR firearm. I consider 100 rounds to be a fair test of function, not just static range fire, but dynamic strings of fire, mag changes, etc. Different ammo will also shoot differently....ie sight adjustment.