Rango.....1942 Willys MB

[Metcalf]

My old 1942 Willys has been in need of a refresh for a while now.....

I figured I would post this build here since my Dodge project went over so well. While it might not be your typical 'expedition' buildup vehicle, it is a piece of history and one of the original overland expedition vehicles.....

This little guy is pushing 70 years old now so I figured it was time for a decent rebuild. Now, I don't want to hear any whining from the historical purists! This is a 1942 Willys MB, but it was never stock as long as I have owned it. I have tinkered with it for the last 8 years or so now. It is WAY too far gone to restore. Just like any much 'loved' jeep there is VERY little that is original. The specs as it sits currently are....

1942 Willys MB frame and body
1960s buick 225 v6 from a cj5 ( dual exhaust, HEI, holley 2bbl )
SM420 transmission ( 7.05:1 1st gear )
D18 t-case, twin stick, custom 1/2" long adapter to the transmission.
D44 rear axle from a cj5, 4.30 gears, powr-lok, 2pc axles
D25/27 front, 4.27 gears, disc brakes, crossover steering
Power steering conversion
hanging pedal conversion
70s GM column of some kind with a small steering wheel!

Overall its been a great little rig, but I have never fully trusted it. Its pushing 70 years now and I didn't do all the modifications. I found it in a field in Montana. The guy I bought it from got it from some guy who owed him money, who got it from the widow of the guy that did the major rebuid. That is how the story goes. I have tinkered with it for a few years now, but have always been on the fence about it. Its a cool piece of history, but its not worth restoring. Its been pretty much sitting around for over a year now. I finally hopped down off the fence and decided to rebuild it. I will be taking over the Rubicon late this summer/early fall........

The biggest overall problem with this old guy is that the frame is HAMMERED! The rear K-member is trashed. It looked like someone was using it to pull a bulldozer out with it. Once of the front frame rails is a little bent around the steering box. There is also some rusting at the rear shackle mounts. I debated for a long time about what to do. You can get a new original frame for around $1500 or you can get a box frame for about $2000+. Like everything else lately....I decided to make my own.

After a few dozen hours with a tape measure, some old FSM type manuals, and a few hour on the computer I came up with a simple frame.....

This rendering is not complete but shows the basic idea. The frame itself is constructed of 2x4 box tubing. The plates on the side define the critical measurements for the front and rear spring hangers. This will allow me to keep the frame very true when assembling it. I sent the side plates off to the laser cutter and ordered up two sticks of material. Total cost was less than $400 for everything shipped. The two sticks of material give me plenty for bumpers, cross members, and body mounts....

NOTE:

A member of Pirate4x4.com was kind enough to host the files for the frame

http://www.scotthansen.net/framemodel.pdf
http://www.scotthansen.net/frameplate.dxf

 

[Metcalf]

Now I am sure you are all wondering what it should look like when its done....

This is a photochop concept I did of what I have in my brain....

One of the biggest problems that I have faced with this little guy is that the lack of wheelbase becomes a factor while doing stupid stuff like this.

Now, I don't totally want to ruin the character of this little guy by comp cutting the back and hanging the rear tire way out....or stretching the front way out with a way longer hood or whatever. I want it to still look like something from the late 40s or 50s.

When I was designing the frame I decided to give the frame a very moderate 'tasteful' stretch. I extended the wheelbase 3" in the back and 3" in the front. I also changed the front spring hanger location to use the longer rear springs in the front. I didn't want to go with super long springs like wrangler springs, or willys wagon springs simply because I think they would kill the performance in too many other areas. I will be keeping this keep VERY low to the ground overall. I think a low stance helps a vehicle perform better in most every way.

The new longer wheelbase will help me fit a larger tire front and back without having to lift the vehicle. The front of the rear tire gets pushed back in the wheel well a bit. The front tire moves forward giving more room behind it.

While it will never climb like a competition rock buggy, the low stance and 6" longer wheelbase should help a lot.

One of the things that bugs me most is that even when sitting basically on top of the fuel tank with ZERO padding under the butt, my head was still above the edge of the windshield. This requires a taller cage to protect your head, generally looks bad, and is just stupid. There has to be a better way....

So I ripped out the passenger seat and started measuring and experimenting. I found with the factory seats removed there was a lot of 'wasted' space that could be used for a 'better' seating position. I am planning on relocating the factory fuel tank and installing some better seats lower in the body tub with a slight cant to the rear. I'm 5'10" and in the pic I am sitting on about a 3-4" riser to simulate a much lower seat. I am leaning back just until I can see the leading edge of the hood......

Much more to come!

 

[Metcalf]

I started making some parts the other day.....

 

[sallad]

I like where this is going

 

[bldeagle10]

very excited to see how this goes man! ive always wanted to do a willys one day. the prices here in arizona arent too steep either for them. 1500 on craigslist. mmaybe in a few years

 

[reece146]

Just 2¢...

The stance and patina of this Jeep absolutely rocks.

This, not so much. Too much tire and tires are way out there. Flip the Jeep and build a buggy if that is the route you are going.

The coolest part of a flatty is that it doesn't need to be massively overbuilt to get the job done.

Again, just 2¢.

 

[Metcalf]

I'm going to keep the patina. The concept pic is a little wide. I will be keeping axles in it that are only about 54" wide. They are a little wider than what I have now, but only about 3". The tires are going to get larger. The 32s are cool and all, but I need a little more tire if I am going to keep up with my friends, especially in the deep deep snow.

I thought long and hard about going full 'buggy' but decided against it. For me, a buggy is just pandora's box. Too much unknown. At least for now.

I'm gonna do some neat stuff to this little guy, but hopefully I can retain the look and feel of a 40s-50s vehicle. I want something that looks like it could have been built back then by someone forward thinking.....

 

[wely]

I love to see a flat-fender rebuild. I also have a bastardized version of a jeep mine is a 46 cj2a with am M38 windshield and a DJ3a body. I hope someday to put a good body on mine. but for now I try to use it as is. There ain't nothing that moves people out of your way faster than someone screaming no brakes in an old flattie!

 

[Metcalf]

Yeah. That is one area I will be addressing. My brakes are fair, but that is on a good day. I am going to try some suzuki sidekick rotors and calipers on all 4 corners. I am also going to try and install an XJ pedal system with the small diameter vacuum booster, master cylinder, and hydraulic clutch parts. My existing brake and clutch stuff is showing some age....

 

[madizell]

FWIW observations:

Projects have a way of expanding without prior intent. This will turn into something more complicated than it first looks, but you probably already know that.

Changing the seating relationship requires more than lowering, and you are already part way there with the pedal flip already in place. In addition to moving down, you also have to move back to accommodate your knees, otherwise you end up sitting as if you were in a go-kart, and if you haven't already done it, you will need to suspend the fuel pedal as well.

The steering column will have to be substantially lowered, or a good tilt unit used, otherwise the wheel will be way too high to use. Changes to the driver's cockpit have to be morphed in 3 dimensions. The early Jeep doesn't leave a lot of room for it.

Lowering your seating height will impair visibility on the trail. Although I appreciate the problem with the top of the windshield (I have an early CJ5 with about the same problem, made worse by top mounted wipers) I also know from many years of doing it that I always end up moving my seat forward and up on the trail in order to see, the exact opposite of what I do on the highway. The top of the windshield has never been an issue when driving on technical trails, whereas seeing over the nose has been. Lowering the seat makes it worse. Even when racing, I end up using a high and forward seating position rather than a lower rearward position.

If your frame rails are straight, and made from cut and welded square tube, they will tend to twist under load and will need more bracing than would a bent-tube frame. The body will not provide resistance to twisting - it all has to come from the frame. As drawn, you have only two permanent cross pieces, both at about as far front and rear as they can get (bumper location). The T-case support won't provide enough resistance to torque on the frame unless it is welded in. I would consider a permanent X-member in the center of the frame even though it will be a pain to make one and still get driveline parts in and out. If you compare to manufactured frames made of mandrel bent tube you will see bends not only up and down to clear axles, but in and out as well is a sort of hour-glass shape. This additional bending creates torsional rigidity that straight tubes won't have. The center frame plates you envision will help, but I don't think they will be enough, they will only focus the force of the twisting at the ends of the plates. I don't have empirical info to back up such a supposition, just gut, but as you are traveling into new land, I would keep the thought in mind as you build that off road cars see a great deal of torsion, and because the body floats on the frame and needs some protection from overbending, that protection has to come from the frame or the body will start to break up. The torsional load had to be spread a bit, and if focused on a few fixed points, will cause frame cracking. Even the stock frames of several of the older Jeeps tended to crack if used hard off road, so engineering in this area is tricky.

Excessive frame twist can also dismount motors, cause T-cases to leak, and cause premature failure between motor/transmission/t-case.


Looks like you will have fun with this one. Good luck

GMc

 

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the input....

The lowered seating position is a compromise. The pedals are already hanging as is the gas pedal ( most of which will get redone with somewhat more modern parts ). For me, the seating position feels much better. I don't mind having my knees up a bit, but I hate being compressed forward and having my knees up at the same time. Even with my butt at the same distance to the firewall, having the seat leaned back helps a TON. Visibility is a trade off. Getting my butt 2-3" lower should help greatly with the 'feel' of the chassis making it feel much more stable. I don't want a cage taller than the windshield....and I don't want it sloped up in the back.....its just a personal taste thing. Really, the seating position is only going to be about 2-3" lower than it is with the factory seats. The biggest change is that I will be leaning the new seats back ( or at least the backs will not be at 90 degrees to the base ).

This little guy will NOT be getting a full top or doors. Its very easy to just lean over and look out the side to double check stuff. I find myself doing this a lot more than looking out over the hood. On the highway I currently look at the top of the windshield or over it....very annoying.

The frame model picture is incomplete as far as structure. I apologize for that. This was just a model for the layout of the side plates for the laser cutter, and to get an idea of how much material to order. There will be a cross member in the factory 'machine gun' location ( basically right at the rear spring hanger location ) The engine mounts will be tied together left to right. The cage will also be tied into the frame in 6+ locations. The cage is going to be 1.5, .120 DOM. This isn't going to be a race car, the cage is just going to be simple and clean. No matter what the new frame can't be any worse than the factory frame! The factory frame is basically spaghetti. Its only boxed from the motor mounts to basically the 'belly' area. There is nothing at the ends...just .090 c-channel.

 

[bldeagle10]

any visuals on how you want the cage to end up looking?

 

[Metcalf]

This is a 'chop of kinda what I want, the A-pillar is going to be a bit different with the windshield stuff. The short MB windshield with the flip out hardware and hinges makes things a little more complex. The down tubes to the back will angle in and mount at the inside of the wheel well. This should let the rear corner tool boxes still open. I also have an idea for a formed aluminum bikini top that I want to try....

 

[Metcalf]

Here is a flatty with the lowered seating position....

 

[Metcalf]

Kinda like this...