60 watt panels+GZ 350 Extreme + dual batteries in 7.3 turbo diesel=...?

[Waltzing Matilda]

I have been using a GZ Extreme 350 + Boulder 30 panel for charging small electronics while solo camping in Baja the last 2 years in my B4000+Callen camper- works fine.


However, I plan to start travelling with more people, so I just purchased a diesel shuttle bus and ordered 2 GZ Boulder 15 panels +travel case ($99 from Powerful Products). The bus has light fixtures inside- I want to convert to LED. Or I could just run LED flexible "tube" lighting, plugged into the 350.



I hope this 60 watt array will be a more powerful/faster charging/flexible energy source for longer off-grid camping, esp in Baja, to meet the needs of more people needing to charge cameras, cellphones, Ipads etc.

The '97 E450 diesel came w/2 batteries- both are required to start the beast, correct? One battery is in the engine compartment, the other in a sliding tray near passenger entry door. There is room in the tray for another battery.

Should a I get a deep cycle RV/marine battery from, say CostCo, to supplement this setup? And if so, then... what?

1) Attach the deep cycle to current vehicle battery charging system, and use it as a "house" battery to power lights etc. in the bus? Not sure how to isolate it/install it (tho I'm sure that's been covered here many times).

Or-

2) Attach the deep cycle and/or existing batteries to the solar panels (I have the GZ "Guardian" 12 volt battery charger for this- just saw that product is no longer available on the GZ website) and use it as a house battery in addition to the Extreme 350?

Or-

3) Forget the deep cycle- just charge the batteries while driving, then use the Guardian to "trickle" charge them while parked and using interior lights, and use the 350 as before (to charge other electronics) .

So if I have the 350, and 2 batteries, and the trickle charger- do I really need a deep cycle also?

Finally- if I choose to get an ARB or comparable fridge (Engel?) at some point- which seems to be the biggest draw in terms of off-grid appliances- will I need to increase to 100+ watts AND get a deep cycle?

Side note: While I have a massive rooftop for permanently mounted panels, I prefer to set them out when needed (parked) and keep things low-key/simple/out of sight. I don't like to drive around with added wind resistance*and a "hey, I have lots of toys- come rob me!" look. (This goes for carrying cargo boxes and kayaks on roof racks also- I prefer to keep them inside)

Thanks for help/advice/suggestions!

 

[1stDeuce]

I need to get back to my own solar install, but here's my quick thought... 60 watts of solar is not much. If you're intending to do more than charge a cell phone or two, and you aren't going to run the truck for hours each day, you really need to get more solar capacity. With a 60w panel, you'll get at the most 4A of power for ~5 hours a day, perhaps 7 hours if you take some time to re-aim the panel a few times during the day.

My guess is only one battery is the OE starting battery, and the second one is there for backup/increased capacity for whatever the bus had going. Fer sure if the under-hood battery is a big group 27 or 31. If they're both the same, I would use the better of the two for the starting battery, and the other for the camper unit "house" battery. Separate them so you can't drain the starting battery... Lots of ways to do that, but a simple continuous duty relay that is energized with the ignition in "run" would be the easiest. Run BIG wire between them, like #2ga or so so the alternator can charge both fairly well. (You want to get roughly the same voltage at the house battery as the main battery with the engine running!)

You can start with the batteries you have, but using a standard auto battery like a deep cycle will kill it pretty quick. When that happens, switch to a standard deep cycle. If you're REALLY sucking power out of the battery during the night, then fill the tray with two. They'll live longer the less they're discharged. I like the Deka "Super Start" batteries from OReilly, but any deep cycle should do well. Don't worry about spending money on an AGM, you'll probably not get your money's worth.

As for panels, you may think you don't want a big panel on the roof, but low mounting a 120W panel right in the middle would make it pretty much invisible unless you were higher than the roof. Perhaps a better, but 2x more expensive alternative would be one of the stick-on panels, which don't show at all unless you're looking down on them. There is definitely value in not having to set out your panel, and string wire, and think about it...

The other thing to consider is that if you hard wire the panels in, you can use proper wire size, and proper placement of the charge controller for minimum voltage drop, so you actually get 14.4v (Or more!) to the battery. That's VERY important as you start using more power...

Several good threads here. I think my strongest recommendation would be to go with some sort of fairly permanent setup though. The GZ stuff is great for backpackers, and people camping out of a Subaru, but for more use, and particularly if you intend to be out in it a lot, I'd go to a dedicated setup, at least for the van itself.

My $0.02.
Chris

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Thank you 1st deuce- helpful advice.

I have a trip end of month, with several people. Most place we will go will be off-grid, so I'll see how we do to figure out future needs/energy demands. I think I can charge the GZ Extreme via the accessory charger while driving... then switch to solar when we stop for the night.

No fridge at this point- I'll pack the Pelican 65Q and get some ice blocks- just small electronics/batteries to keep charged.

As for a permanent rooftop panel- if it's flush mounted, possible. I need to see if there are existing "thru hulls" to run wires to battery and interior. (I really don't want to cut thru the fiberglass if I can avoid it.)

Hmmm... there are some light fixtures up there so maybe those could be modified....

It's a bit like a 12V system in a 24' land sloop... I want to limit the places water, dust etc. can enter the cabin.

 

[snowblind]

A few thoughts. Not all totally connected.

The portable GZ batteries may be an excellent option for you. Use them in the bus or in the Toyota or in your buddies truck or wherever.

I've used a GZ Yeti 400 for two years now. Main use is to power a 12v fridge in the back of my Suburban. I can run the fridge for roughly 48 hours on a single charge. Secondary uses are powering LED camp lanterns, charging USB devices and I even used it on 110V to power a sawzall in my front yard when I was too lazy to go get an extension cord.

This summer I added a 2nd batt to my truck dedicated to the stereo, 6 x aux lights and the 12v fridge. It will be very nice to have the extra capacity of the 2nd battery but it in no way replaces the Yeti 400. The Yeti will be right there to run the LED lanterns, charge USB, provide an inverter AND... provide an alternate power source for the fridge.

If you were running a fridge then 60w of solar would not keep up with use. But is that such a bad thing? if 60w gets you 4 days of power instead of the previous 2 days that is still a HUGE improvement. Since you aren't running a fridge you will get much longer. My LED camp lanterns use under 3 watts each.

None of the GZ batteries that I have used charge at a linear rate. EG: They will accept MORE input charge at 60% and below than they will accept at 80% and above. When near full my Yeti 400 will only draw 2-3 watts. This allows a full battery to pass thru a large percentage of incoming power to output when needed. ie: 100 watts in = 2 watts charge and 0 watts becomes 100 watts in = 2 watts charge + 98 watts output.

GZ has been a little frustrating with their use of proprietary connectors and cables but my overall experience with the product has been very positive.

For 60w in panels (2x30w or 4x15w) I would not bother with permanent mounting. Lean them on the tires, bungee them to the roof or side of truck. Use them in the bus or in the Toyota or in your buddies truck or wherever.




Matt

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Thanks Matt- Agree, the portability of the reasonably light GZ batteries make them attractive.

How do you like your yeti 400? I have an Extreme 350 but the display has stopped displaying. (I don't know it's charging/discharging rate, after attaching the new Boulder 15s I purchased, +the Boulder 30.)

The CostCo GZ Roadshows are underway in my area. I'm thinking of swapping the old Extreme for the yeti 400 (thank you CostCo return policy!)

 

[snowblind]

Thanks Matt- Agree, the portability of the reasonably light GZ batteries make them attractive. How do you like your yeti 400?

At first I just liked it but after a couple of years of use I sort of love it.

I bought it to use almost exclusively as a camping/road trip tool to provide power for my 12v fridge. I had no solar panels so charged via AC adapter and 12v cig plug. I beat the crap out of it (electrically) for the first two years. Ran the fridge with less than 60% reserve most of the time on trips. Ran it down to zero power 7 or 8 times. Didn't keep it topped up with solar or wall charging. I'm surprised the battery hasn't given up yet.

This year I finally got some solar panels and added another lantern and I am waaaaay more excited with the Yeti 400. For me it is quickly becoming sort of a vehicle-independent, power management center. I use it in my house to charge phones and tablets while topping off with solar.

The "perfect" set up might be Yeti 400, 60-120watts of solar panels, 12v fridge, 2-4 LED lanterns, 2-4 USB or 12v rechargeable flashlights, USB rechargable ipod, USB rechargable speakers, and then the of course the 300w inverter.

The biggest hassle for me has been figuring out secure and efficient connectors beyond the standard 12v cig plug. I'm very happy to see GZ moving towards more standard connections.



Matt

 

[LovinPSDs]

1st deuce.. I'm pretty sure both batteries draw during starting. All Powerstrokes came with (2) batteries, and lets be honest, the only time she "needs" them is when you try to crank the big diesel over. That being said, plenty of guys in the drag world start their trucks up on one battery, even daily drive it. So a nice, big, full charged single battery will start the truck if it's not super cold out. 7.3's take some juice when it's cold! I bet if you could isolate the 1 big starter battery as soon as you shut the truck off you wouldn't have any problems, but I'd do some tests before I head into the Baja with that plan.

Next piece of advise... Check these guys out. https://www.dcpowerinc.com/high-output-alternators.html You can do some pretty serious charging with one of these. With the capacity you've got in the truck, why not just throw some additional batteries in there, have a 250-350 amp alternator and supplement it with one solid solar panel (stationary or not, doesn't matter really). The 320 amp puts out over 200amp at idle and i'm pretty sure a van like that was outfitted with a high idle switch for bump if you need it.

 

[LovinPSDs]

One thing that may be a bit miss leading is the fact that a deep cycle does take a decent amount of time to charge regardless of what the alternator is pumping out. One thing you didn't mention, how offen are you typically stopped in one place without starting up at a time?

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm usually not parked more than 2-3 days, on most trips.

However: long term goal with bus vs. current truck is to be able to haul more supplies (food, water, etc.) and stay out longer. So...it's a work in progress.

Just picked up a Yeti 400 at Costco roadshow today, and based on other comments here, may use that vs. installing a deep cycle that would be heavier/harder to switch between vehicles.

 

[LovinPSDs]

I think the long term goal should be to build to more solar ultimately then. There is no doubt the truck can charge anything you have, but the solar will 1. Help you top them off and 2. Decrease there draw down rate ultimately allowing you to go longer. Then you can always add more capacity of you need! I'm interested in the goal zero products, need to do some more reading up on them myself.

 

[BioBum]

I would definitely look to add more solar and a better 12v battery (or 2 x 6v's wired together in series). I work as an alt-e contractor here in Michigan and do a lot of off grid solar work. I would recommend
2x L16 (6V) batteries (http://www.trojanbattery.com/reliantagm/)

paired with a 140 Watt Panel (http://www.altestore.com/store/Solar-Panels/Kyocera-KD140GX-LFBS-140W-12V-Solar-Panel/p10189/) (or more, just wire the in parallel)

and a panel mounted charge controler Like This http://www.altestore.com/store/Char...-EQ-1236-20A-DC-to-DC-UpDown-Converter/p1288/
Hope this helps!