4x4 Heavy Truck or Medium Duty

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
I joined this forum in order to gain information about an upcoming truck build. Having read several threads on the issue, I have become split on a decision and would love some advice.

I have a family of 3 and I'm looking to do some serious trips in the coming years (Mongolia, India, Africa, Norway/Finland).

Found a Magirus Duetz 170D11 for sale and have the cash to scoop it up. Air-cooled Deutz diesel, low mileage for a 1980s truck and a a great platform for me to build my camper on.

Heres where confusion started. I read many threads on this forum suggesting that the big Magirus might not be allowed into certain parks. Thats trucks of that size will have a difficult time with travel be it on a ship or ferry, and that going smaller (within reason) is better.

To that end I found a great Volkswagon LT45 4x4. It has half the gross weight of the Magirus, a workable load rating for a camper on the back, and still has a large double cab (not as large...that Magirus cab is HUGE and would be a very comfortable travel).

---THE BIG QUESTION---
Assuming the end result will of either one wont fit in a shipping container, is there any benefit to the 4ton Volkswagon over the 7.5ton Magirus (gross weights).

Pictures below are two examples
Volkswagen LT45 4x4 from the Hasenwerk web site
volkswagenlt4x4.jpg


Magirus Deutz 170D11 from the Afrika-virus web site
Magirus_Deutz_003.jpg
 
Last edited:

Allroader

Observer
Hi,
Their are many differnces. I have owned a lt 4x4 and friends have owned a Magirus.

- Parts are extreme expensive on the Magirus. Cheap windshield would be 1000+€, the rubber block suppurting the cab (only last about 3 years) cost 300€.
The LT 4x4 is much more within reason. Since VW used many parts that already existed. So you are not lim. to just the LT model. Example you can instell a 2.4L Volvo turbo engine without changing anything exept gaining 30+HP, the axles (which some say are hard to get) they are the same as in the small MAN and so on.

- for shipping, the smaller the better/cheaper.

- yes their are weight limits where you can go with a 4t truck and not go with a big one.

- both will give you and you family plenty of room.

good luck with your search

mike
 

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
Mike
Thanks...outstanding info. I really liked the "nothing to fail" of the air-cooled, mechanically injected, naturally aspirated Deutz diesel...things like rubber cab mounts that wear out never crossed my mind.

I would be very interested in any additional info you could offer as a former owner of the VW LT. I am not looking for a truck to rock crawl or go mudding in...I want something that could handle a 10,000 mile round trip without a paved road and still keep the wife comfortable. Your comment about engine and parts interchangeability has really caught me, but I know little of VW diesels.
 

sg1

Adventurer
Hi Apexcamper,

the LT`s are quite good but are getting a bit old. Since you live in Germany, why not look for a Mercedes Vario 4x4? They are in the 7.5 t range, have a reputation to be very reliable and parts and service are easy to get anywhere in the world. The other advantage is that the Vario has no cap over design (makes it easier to walk through from the cab to the cabin and to access the engine).
Regards
SG
 

Allroader

Observer
Hi,
Sure, what would you like to know.
we have traveled 1000's of km with our. Never had any major problems, once a dead batterie and that's it.
they are not racers, but just keep running. Their are so many ways to change them if you want to. I never did, but knowing the option is their keeps the ideas going ;)
i would set up the front cab as a bedroom, maybe down the road to split the kids put a high roof on the cab and put a bed and storage up their. on the bed you can put a nice size living quarters. i have seen on with a small german shelter on it, and really loved the look. this would give you a quick set up to get out and enjoy.

vw set up the bed, very high. You can easily lower that 20cm, which i would do. under the cab/bed their is plenty of space for diesel tanks and storage.

so just ask away. You can also write in german, but then per Pn to be fair to others

Mike
 

LukeH

Adventurer
Hiya. I would really recommend going and reading Gertenbach's Bigfoot camperbuild thread. He had a LT 40 4x4 before getting his 1017. Apparently the transfer case is really fragile.
I had the same dilemma a couple of years ago. I sold my 5tonne Iveco and bought a 14 tonner.
Here's the question, do you want to travel in a vehicle that's close to or over its maximum weight all the time?
you're also very limited by Tyre choice if you stay on 16 inch wheels, again you're close to Max and really susceptible to corrugations.
If you're able to keep the weight down (it's a constant battle as you buy stuff along your travels) you would do better to look at the VW MAN 8.136 and 8.150 which sometimes come with double cab and are hard as nails. Most importantly you're on 20 inch wheels, the choice is greater and the corrugations caused by 16 inch wheels are no longer at your resonant frequency.
happy hunting.
 

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
Allroader -
Thanks for the offer to pick your brain. Specifically I am interested in vehicle character. Being inexpensive to repair is no consolation if it needs constant repair (had an old Chevy like that, parts super cheap, but seem to always need them). Did yours require alot of routine maintenance?
On the T-case, is there a low range?
Are they selectable 4x4, full time with a diff, straight full time?
locking diffs at the axles?
Most of that could be answered by a site with some great specs and info if you know of one.

(I had a pinzgauer, and although too small for long range stuff...the most awesome vehicle I have owned to date, loved my locking diffs).
Do they drink alot of fuel near gross weight?
how is cabin noise at cruise? (between 80 and 90kph)
It there alot of frame flex when offroading?

The vehicle I am looking at is about 5 hours drive away, so I am trying to get all my ducks in a row before making the trip to see it (and a couple of others in the same area). I speak very little German, which really doesn't help, but I'm fairly mechanically savy, so if I know what to look for I'm pretty good. SOOO...what should I look for? As a former owner, if you were buying another one, what are things you would check that might be overlooked by the normal crowd?

One last thing...did you read the above from LukeH...he makes a very good argument for a heavier vehicle...thoughts?

LukeH -
Thanks for the reply...really kinda crazy you mentioned that, since over the weekend I found a Man 8.136 double cab for sale. Interior looks a little tired, but I would be gutting that anyway.
VW Man 8.136 FAE Doka 4x4
 

LukeH

Adventurer
3 diflocks and a hydraulic system for winch, levellers, motorbike rack or or whatever!
At 7000 I reckon it's not too bad. It comes from the vanagon generation of VW paint philosophy, so look at those seams near the plastic wheelarches, and try to see under the checker plate in the steps.

If you know your mechanics the rest is up to you.
If you pick at the rust and make faces at the mud in the cab you might knock him down some more.
While I was hesitating and dallying about what size base I wanted that exact model was what I was searching for.
Then I finally committed to getting a proper truck license and went for a 14 tonne unit with a 7 tonne payload. I run even less risk of overloading.
Let us know how you get on.
 

CliftonSmith

Observer
Interesting discussions here! :ylsmoke:
Actually, wife and me were planning to do traveling together with our children. And we are now starting to research on what would be the best truck to have and what specific parts modifications we need to do in our truck for us to have a comfortable long ride. :)
 
I would always be inclined to buy the vehicle with the greatest GVM. There are already several semi tragic accounts of self build vehicles on the Forum which were way over GVM, and perhaps just by coincidence, they broke.
Anything up to a MAN 18.280 or a Mercedes 1828 wouldn't be outlandish.
A DOKA removes a critically needed meter of living space. Do anything you can to seat the 3rd person in the middle of a single cab, IMHO.

Charlie
 

grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
Driving convenience versus living comfort. And definitely well within whichever vehicles gross! But how big a living space do you want? The VW looks like a very short bed.

There will be more places you can't get to of course, but the space in a bigger camper will pay dividends when the weather isn't too good, or you're parked up waiting for something. I don't think the higher tolls and ferry costs would be a huge extra cost as part of a big trip?

You can sleep across a bigger truck, freeing up interior length. A wide enough box to do that on a smaller truck ends up the similar width so making it less agile in traffic. Sleeping in the cab would be cold? Heating it all night would take a lot of energy in one way or another? Although if Mongolia means China too and therefore a guide, that will be much cheaper if you can accomodate him yourself rather than paying for his transport and hotel!

If you could make the camper section removable, then with tyres deflated or road wheels off the bigger truck could fit in a high cube container?

Good luck

Jason

:)
 

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