Land Rover Discovery 1 or 2, or Range Rover Classic 1 or 2

LtFuzz

Explorer
Can you elaborate on your comment about cost of ownership since I obviously never had one?

The Rover zeitgeist is that they fail consistently and require perpetual maintenance. The extent is always in the eye of the beholder, though. I just recently limped my D1 1,800 miles home -- that's pretty confidence inspiring.

The 2004 I recently purchased has a new motor because it blew up the original at 70k miles. Others see 180k+ with no major issues. I'm on my 3rd Disco now and never at any point have I felt like I was fighting a losing battle.

In my view the cost of ownership is more closely related to the temptation of modification. :coffeedrink:

And, at the end of the day, you either must have one or not. Most of us here must have them so we tolerate the bad press.
 

pixelcodex

Observer
The Rover zeitgeist is that they fail consistently and require perpetual maintenance. The extent is always in the eye of the beholder, though. I just recently limped my D1 1,800 miles home -- that's pretty confidence inspiring.

The 2004 I recently purchased has a new motor because it blew up the original at 70k miles. Others see 180k+ with no major issues. I'm on my 3rd Disco now and never at any point have I felt like I was fighting a losing battle.

In my view the cost of ownership is more closely related to the temptation of modification. :coffeedrink:

And, at the end of the day, you either must have one or not. Most of us here must have them so we tolerate the bad press.


I had seen your D1 and another one that had a diesel conversion. I would love to have one diesel. I thought both were very cool, but my skills are not such that I can attempt such a swap, and I don't even know what a shop would charge for something like that.

Like I mentioned, I still would need to keep it as my daily work driver, so I would not go crazy with modifications, but then again — as it has happened with my motorcycles before — I always end up doing the mods "I need to have" and the definition of need is what gets you into trouble.

I took my car and the wife's for routine stuff to a shop that sort of specializes in Land Rovers, and could not help but wonder about how many there have open motors, etc being rebuilt or replaced. Of course the shop owner mentioned negligence on the previous owner's part where they did not do oil changes, had bad oil, etc. And the shop owner talked to me about a newer RR (I think 04) that he is getting a motor with 60K in to sell. Not sure if a car that starts with a swapped engine is something I want to start with...
 

AxeAngel

Expedition Leader
Look around, deals can be had. Just picked up a 2004 with lots of modifications, dealer serviced for most of its life (replacement motor and tcase fairly recently) for dirt cheap. She will need about $1k to make her cosmetically beautiful, but toherwise she is good to go.

-Sam
 

pixelcodex

Observer
Look around, deals can be had. Just picked up a 2004 with lots of modifications, dealer serviced for most of its life (replacement motor and tcase fairly recently) for dirt cheap. She will need about $1k to make her cosmetically beautiful, but toherwise she is good to go.

-Sam

Are there places specific to Land Rovers that I can go look in, other than the usual cragislist, fleabay, etc? I looked at the inventory of RMR, who somebody mentioned. They seem to have a good selection, and in good shape, though a bit more pricey (though that could pay for itself if it is in good shape)
 

Snagger

Explorer
No Range Rover Classics were built after 1995 - the late 90s and early 2000s RR is the P38. That is a very comfortable and capable car, but it is notorious for EAS and BECM faults (both expensive) and for porous blocks on the 4.2l V8 engine. On the flip-side, they are available quite cheaply because many people won't touch them because of these maintenance concerns. A coil spring conversion from someone like Atlantic British would prevent any EAS issues, and the BECMs, though not available new anymore, would be available at a price from a scrap yard - it's usually dry joints that let the BECM down, so they're usually repairable if you are very patient or have a good electronics specialist at hand.

The Range Rover Classic has a similar EAS system in its dusk years (it was essentially a test mule for the P38) which is very unreliable unless recently overhauled. Other than that and its notorious rust issues in the inner body shell, it's a fairly easy car to keep going, but due to the vehicles' age, it's likely to have a list of niggling faults. There isn't much space for drivers over 6' and rear passenger have very little space unless you find an LSE (LWB).

The Discovery I was based on the RRC, and whule it lacks the style or prestige of the RRC, it does gain a lot of extra space for the second row and the boot. It has the same problems as the RRC.

The Discovery II looks similar to the DI, but is quite different under the skin. It has the same transmission options, but that's pretty much it. They're well built and much more resistant to rust. their biggest problem was the lack of a centre diff lock, relying entirely on ETC on the early vehicles. Five seaters have coil sprung suspension while seven seaters have rear EAS and front ACE, which are expensive to repair and are an un-necessary complication - a coil conversion would be a good idea.
 

AxeAngel

Expedition Leader
RMR, DiscoWeb, Rovers North board, nat'l craigslist search, D-90 Source, theroverbarn.com...

Also the parts guys like john gadd, will tillery, paul grant, pt schram, etc.

I bought mine from a well known member of this forum and others that deals solely in LR modifications.

-Sam
 

pixelcodex

Observer
No Range Rover Classics were built after 1995 - the late 90s and early 2000s RR is the P38. That is a very comfortable and capable car, but it is notorious for EAS and BECM faults (both expensive) and for porous blocks on the 4.2l V8 engine. On the flip-side, they are available quite cheaply because many people won't touch them because of these maintenance concerns. A coil spring conversion from someone like Atlantic British would prevent any EAS issues, and the BECMs, though not available new anymore, would be available at a price from a scrap yard - it's usually dry joints that let the BECM down, so they're usually repairable if you are very patient or have a good electronics specialist at hand.

The Range Rover Classic has a similar EAS system in its dusk years (it was essentially a test mule for the P38) which is very unreliable unless recently overhauled. Other than that and its notorious rust issues in the inner body shell, it's a fairly easy car to keep going, but due to the vehicles' age, it's likely to have a list of niggling faults. There isn't much space for drivers over 6' and rear passenger have very little space unless you find an LSE (LWB).

The Discovery I was based on the RRC, and whule it lacks the style or prestige of the RRC, it does gain a lot of extra space for the second row and the boot. It has the same problems as the RRC.

The Discovery II looks similar to the DI, but is quite different under the skin. It has the same transmission options, but that's pretty much it. They're well built and much more resistant to rust. their biggest problem was the lack of a centre diff lock, relying entirely on ETC on the early vehicles. Five seaters have coil sprung suspension while seven seaters have rear EAS and front ACE, which are expensive to repair and are an un-necessary complication - a coil conversion would be a good idea.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all these details. This is the kind of stuff that will really aid in my decision. The interior room is a great bit of data, since I am 6'5" and I need the leg room (cannot get on a plane comfortably unless I am in the emergency exit row). The conversion for the suspension is also great info. I imagine I can dig around this site later for recommendations. I guess more and more it is pointing towards the Discovery.

Keep it coming! :)
 

Scott Brady

Founder
There are no notable difference in the drivetrain of those vehicles. Just buy the one you like the most. The DI has an advantage of being the smallest and most nimble in the group, and has the possibility of a 5-speed manual.

The Disco also has better parts support. That is becoming an issue with the RRCs
 

Snagger

Explorer
Thanks for taking the time to explain all these details. This is the kind of stuff that will really aid in my decision. The interior room is a great bit of data, since I am 6'5" and I need the leg room (cannot get on a plane comfortably unless I am in the emergency exit row). The conversion for the suspension is also great info. I imagine I can dig around this site later for recommendations. I guess more and more it is pointing towards the Discovery.

Keep it coming! :)
A RRC is not for you, then!

Seriously, though, have a look at the current RR restoration and conversion thread to get an idea. I'm a gnat's cock under 6' and need the driver's seat all the way aft on my standard length RRC. My hair sometimes brushes the head lining, and I have the tallest RRC roof because I have no sunroofs (their frames and tracks are inside the main roof panel, so the headlining on sunroof equipped models dips above the front seats). With the seats all the way back, my rear passengers have enough leg room for the moment, but that's because they are 9 and 10 years old. I expect a lot of complaints when they're older.

A Discovery will give you much more room - the rear roof was stepped to allow the second seat row to be sat further aft and higher, increasing leg room. They also have more head room in the front - try to find some pictures of the area just above the windscreen and you'll see it's much taller on a Discovery. How the leg room is in the driver's seat for someone your size is od a small amount of concern, but I think you could make up some box section extenders similar to those sold for Defender seats by Exmoor Trim and Mudstuff.co.uk to move the seats slight aft and up.

Given the choice between a DI and a DII, I'd recommend a DII - it's more comfortable, a better drive more and reliable and will be considerably younger (so condition is likely to be better and parts availability better).
 

LtFuzz

Explorer
Given the choice between a DI and a DII, I'd recommend a DII - it's more comfortable, a better drive more and reliable and will be considerably younger (so condition is likely to be better and parts availability better).

Interesting -- I'm 6'2 and very slim and I find my DI has more room. The DII has a profoundly smoother and quieter ride but the cockpit feels considerably more cramped. The rear view mirror is RIGHT in my field of vision and I'm constantly peering around it -- very annoying. I think the ergonomics of the DII's seats make a difference, too. They're nicer seats but boy do they stuff my knees up against the steering wheel/fuse box cover. The DI interior feels much more gracile.
 

Snagger

Explorer
Interesting -- I'm 6'2 and very slim and I find my DI has more room. The DII has a profoundly smoother and quieter ride but the cockpit feels considerably more cramped. The rear view mirror is RIGHT in my field of vision and I'm constantly peering around it -- very annoying. I think the ergonomics of the DII's seats make a difference, too. They're nicer seats but boy do they stuff my knees up against the steering wheel/fuse box cover. The DI interior feels much more gracile.

I was thinking in terms also of ride, noise levels and handling, not just driving position, but I can see how there may be some issues - the 200Tdi era of DIs had a slimmer dash, much like the RRC's dash was slimmer prior to the "soft dash". The 300Tdi DI dash is similar to the DII's, but the seating may be sufficiently different to make the space difference...
 

dcwhybrew

Adventurer
A RRC is not for you, then!

Seriously, though, have a look at the current RR restoration and conversion thread to get an idea. I'm a gnat's cock under 6' and need the driver's seat all the way aft on my standard length RRC. My hair sometimes brushes the head lining, and I have the tallest RRC roof because I have no sunroofs (their frames and tracks are inside the main roof panel, so the headlining on sunroof equipped models dips above the front seats). With the seats all the way back, my rear passengers have enough leg room for the moment, but that's because they are 9 and 10 years old. I expect a lot of complaints when they're older.

A Discovery will give you much more room - the rear roof was stepped to allow the second seat row to be sat further aft and higher, increasing leg room. They also have more head room in the front - try to find some pictures of the area just above the windscreen and you'll see it's much taller on a Discovery. How the leg room is in the driver's seat for someone your size is od a small amount of concern, but I think you could make up some box section extenders similar to those sold for Defender seats by Exmoor Trim and Mudstuff.co.uk to move the seats slight aft and up.

Given the choice between a DI and a DII, I'd recommend a DII - it's more comfortable, a better drive more and reliable and will be considerably younger (so condition is likely to be better and parts availability better).

I would agree with Snagger here, if you're tall dont go with a RRC. The discos will fit you better. I have had 3 discos (one D1 and two D2s) and one RRC (I have also owned a P38 RR and 2 LR3s). If maintenance costs are an issue for you and you cannot afford to pay $4-5k annually (high estimate) then I would stay away from RRC, D1s and possibly the D2s. Otherwise, I would suggest as new a D2 as possible, in the SD trim, and pay $2-3k for an extended warranty. If you can afford it, the LR3s and newer Land Rovers are significantly better quality than anything produced before them.

Just to give you some hard dollar comparisons on maintenance: I owned my 96 D1 and 02 D2 for about four years each. The D1 did not have an extended warranty and after 4 years I spent approximately $13-14k on repairs after my $12k purchase price in Sept. 2002. The 02 D2, I spent about $6k over four years on non-extended warranty covered repairs and the extended warranty company covered an equal amount. Keep in mind, I am EXTREMELY anal retentive in how I maintain my vehicles...I keep them in as new of condition as possible.

For land rovers, if you follow your preventive maintenance schedules and constantly look after them, also use high quality fluids, then your drive trains will be/should be just fine. Head gaskets and rear main seals are about the biggest hassles for these cars. It's your ancillaries that are going to cause you the biggest headaches.

These cars will get you anywhere you want to go, but you have to maintain them. I personally would never buy a fixer upper unless I planned to spend $10-15k on the engine and ancillaries (the interior would have to be in tip top shape). Poorly maintained Rovers can and will get away from you quick, turning in to a night mare.

If you are on a tight budget, cant afford the repair costs or dont have patience to fix the little things after the routine maintenance, buy as new of Toyota as you can afford (and continue wishing you had a Rover...LOL).

I am just being honest.
 

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