Extreme tire wear issue during roadtrip.

[dinoevo]

Hi Everybody,

We thought we tested our van (Mitsubishi Delica - the same as a Mitsubishi Montero, just a different body) extensively in Canada before we took off on our trip down to South America, but I guess not. Unfortunately after around 2000 miles through the States we realized how extreme the outside of our tires (BFG All-Terrain 235/85R16) are wearing down. Basically the tires were almost new as we took off and by now I guess the outside edge does not have more than 2000 miles left. Before we took off we even had alignment done just to make sure we can get the maximum mileage out of the tires. Also the tire pressure was adjusted several times with no impact at all.

After visiting a couple different tire- and alignment-shops on our route we (and the alignment guys) came to the conclusion that the front lift kit (which came with the van as we bought it) might not be 100% right. As far as I know there are upper ball-joint spacers and sub-frame spacers installed to give the van 3" lift over stock.
The guys at the alignment shop said that there is too much positive camber, but the camber bolt is maxed out and can not be adjusted further to move the wheel perfectly straight.

As there is no point of return for us, we can not afford to give more money to shops who have no knowledge about modified (aka lifted) offroad vehicles. We are in desperate need of someone who has a very good understanding IFS suspension lift kits and their affect on alignment. Also this person or the shop should be able to fabricate the right parts we need to get the wheels finally straight and the tire wear back to normal.

Thanks a lot for your help guys!
Cheers

 

[Slicky72]

Well I hope you get this sorted out soon. Correct me if I am wrong but the Deli uses torsion bar type suspension ? I have a lift in my Xterra and they make a lengthened upper control arm "automotive customizers" to bring the geometry back within spec. That said even with my camber and toe in spot on my caster is still off a bit which makes the steering a little light. I would question what the shop did back here for your alignment, did they just try and get it as close as they could?My guess is you will either need to lengthen or fab up some upper control arms or take some lift out of your truck. Good luck , I will watching for updates on your trip.

 

[lostworldexpedition]

Sorry to hear about this. I hope you can get it taken care of soon. The only person I know in the area is Kurt from CruiserOutfitters, he is a great guy with a great business... Only problem is he specializes in LandCruisers. Still, I would give him a call see what he recommends in the Utah area.

Good luck and see you on the road.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=0.825237,-77.639897

 

[hillbillyjake]

i'm not completely sure on the front fender configuration on your delica, but i would be removing the lift as soon as i could and making the fenders fit the tires. i t seemed like there was a sense of urgency in your post. if this is the case, drastic times call for drastic measures. just my opnion based on your post. hope it works out.

 

[IdaSHO]

If your primary problem is simply too much positive camber, then you need to start removing blocks. Or find a GOOD suspension shop, that has the ability to "sag" coil springs with a torch.

 

[hoser]

I know nothing about Delicas but I'll throw a couple of ideas out there. If there is too much positive camber...

1) Try jacking up the front end 1-1.5" and see if the camber comes within an acceptable range. If so, then analyze the other aspects of lifting it that amount (down travel, rake, etc) and if it all checks out, then crank your t-bars for that amount of lift and re-align.

OR

2) Remove ball joint spacers. Analyze whether front end ride height needs to be dropped down for proper UCA/balljoint geometry. And if so, drop rear suspension by which ever means possible. Re-align.

So basically I'm saying either raise of lower the front suspension so that camber is within an acceptable range. Adjust rear accordingly.

 

[dinoevo]

Thanks for your reply guys.

@Slicky72: Yes, a l300 Delica has a torsion bar setup in the front and leaf springs in the back. The alignment shops try to get the camber as close as possible but with that much driving it still wears the tire too much. New control arm sounds good, but who can make them for us?

@lostworldexpedition: Thanks, I'll get in contact with Kurt. At least he might have an idea what's wrong and who can help us out.

@hillbillyjake, @IdaSHO: Removing the lift is not an option as the tires would be too large and start rubbing.

@hoser: I'll try and raise the front next time we are at a campsite and see what happens.

Bottom line we only have limited tools on board so we are still looking for a shop or someone who could give us a hand. The shops we visited so far along the way were not really helpful.

 

[Patman]

Generally excessive camber will not wear tires quickly. Over time sure, but not in a couple of thousand miles. Unless it is obvious to the eye that the top of the tire is leaning way out.

TOE kills tire edges quickly. Outer edges, too much toe in, Inner too much toe out.

It is not uncommon to see a lifted ifs rig measure fine during an alignment, but have severe travel induced toe changes, causing wicked tire wear.

Do you have the facilities to post a few pics of your front end? Might help us help more.

 

[dinoevo]

@Patman: It is obvious to the eye that the top of the front tires are leaning out. Not a lot, but still noticeable. Apparently caster and toe is perfect within specs. I'll try to get some pics the next time we have a better internet connection.

 

[Patman]

I found and cropped this pic from your gallery (hope you don't mind)

In this pic, the front end has negative camber and it looks like its toe'd in. Of all the pics I could find, non looked to have enough positive camber to wear quickly.

If you run your hand along the tread from the bottom of the tire up (along the front) is it smooth, or are the tread blocks "sharp" like they are not wearing evenly?

In the pics I could find, it looks as if your lower control arms and tie rods are at the same angle and almost the same effective length, so there shouldn't be any excessive toe change during travel.

Do you have the alignment numbers from the last alignment?

 

[dinoevo]

This photo is already quite old and does not reflect the current state of the van. Both alignment shops assured that the toe in is correct. Maybe they didn't know what they are talking about?
The tread blocks are sharp on the outside 3" of the thread. The rest of the thread is smooth. Apparently from cornering with a cab-over design.
Attached one of the alignment sheets we received.

 

[Patman]

So these specs are current?

If so camber definately is not your problem. According to this you don't have enough positive camber.

Generally you set a rwd 2wd (part time 4x) with a little toe in. And front wheel drive with a little toe out. This allows the road to "push" it to zero toe (the ideal).

Anyways enough theory. Pics will help

 

[Patman]

One thing I forgot to ask, are both fronts wearing the same (although opposite)?

 

[Slicky72]

Patman is correct on the camber but just a thought here and I am just spitballing is it possible that you have loaded your rig heavily in the back so the rear is squatting badly ? Perhaps this would lead to excessive negative camber and also change the toe. Stock the steering sits on a fairly level plain but if it's like my Xterra , when lifted the tie-rods are angled down and any more down travel will toe your tires in ... Oh and curious what wheels you are running are they stock back spacing? If they are not your scrub radius is out and will add to ware when turning.

 

[dinoevo]

Ok, here are a few photos. The driver side tire (RHD vehicle) is more worn down than the passenger side tire.

Patman, these alignment specs are before we left. Still looking for the spec sheet of the latest alignment...

Slicky72, Interesting theory. Maybe we should load the van to the maximum capacity (fill up fresh water and both Diesel tanks) and also sit in the van when they do the alignment.