Propex Heatsource furnace question

[jebers53]

http://propexheatsource.co.uk/pdf/Heatsource_A3_brochure.pdf
Anyone have experience with these heaters? Interested in how quiet they are. Not happy with the sound of my 16,000 btu propane unit in my proven tiger. I know would be sacrificing major btu's, but once warm, wouldn't mind having a quieter "whisper?" heater running more often.

 

[Borrego60]

I would ask Mario at AT,I am sure he might have some insight on them. They also sell them.

 

[westyss]

http://propexheatsource.co.uk/pdf/Heatsource_A3_brochure.pdf
Anyone have experience with these heaters? Interested in how quiet they are. Not happy with the sound of my 16,000 btu propane unit in my proven tiger. I know would be sacrificing major btu's, but once warm, wouldn't mind having a quieter "whisper?" heater running more often.

I had one in my westfalia, If I remember right it was a 2800 version, around 9000BTU.
These units are fairly quiet, depending on where its mounted, I mounted mine under the bench seat so while sleeping on the bottom bunk its right under you, The fan is a nice squirrel cage type that will cycle through two speeds, it is really not bad at all, there is also a clicking sound, I think that was the ignitor, from outside , the exhaust was loud but not heard while inside. The main benefit of these units are the efficiency of them, propane and electric use is minimal for the heat they throw, compared to those types that you have they are much more efficient (I have several of these).
If a quiet heater is what you are looking for , a vented Catalytic heater is the way to go, but I realy like the propex heaters for fast, efficient heat.

 

[jebers53]

I had one in my westfalia, If I remember right it was a 2800 version, around 9000BTU.
These units are fairly quiet, depending on where its mounted, I mounted mine under the bench seat so while sleeping on the bottom bunk its right under you, The fan is a nice squirrel cage type that will cycle through two speeds, it is really not bad at all, there is also a clicking sound, I think that was the ignitor, from outside , the exhaust was loud but not heard while inside. The main benefit of these units are the efficiency of them, propane and electric use is minimal for the heat they throw, compared to those types that you have they are much more efficient (I have several of these).
If a quiet heater is what you are looking for , a vented Catalytic heater is the way to go, but I realy like the propex heaters for fast, efficient heat.

I like the two speed fan you mention, not worried about the outside vent sound since we mainly boon. The vented catalytic units also sound good but at night I would worry about, how much window to crack?? Hmm

 

[mhiscox]

The vented catalytic units also sound good but at night I would worry about, how much window to crack?? Hmm

It's not much--1 square inch for each 1000 BTU. Also, many current catalytic heaters have an oxygen depletion sensor that will shut them off it the percentage of oxygen in the air gets too low. For those with a modern cat heater with an ODS and who leave the windows cracked a little (belt and suspenders), a propane cat heater is a safe, quiet and efficient heat source.

However, since the surface of the heater gets plenty hot, it's a safer device when securely mounted or positioned. I'd be wary of trying to use one, say, in a tent, where it could get kicked over or flammable materials (like a sleeping bag) could accidentally contact it. Mounted to the wall of your Tiger, it'd be fine, and even better if you can find a mounting position that is unobstructed for several feet distance. The cat heater in my Sprinter works quite well, but it'd work even better if it wasn't pointed at a cabinet 18 inches away.

 

[Martyn]

It's not much--1 square inch for each 1000 BTU. Also, many current catalytic heaters have an oxygen depletion sensor that will shut them off it the percentage of oxygen in the air gets too low. For those with a modern cat heater with an ODS and who leave the windows cracked a little (belt and suspenders), a propane cat heater is a safe, quiet and efficient heat source.

However, since the surface of the heater gets plenty hot, it's a safer device when securely mounted or positioned. I'd be wary of trying to use one, say, in a tent, where it could get kicked over or flammable materials (like a sleeping bag) could accidentally contact it. Mounted to the wall of your Tiger, it'd be fine, and even better if you can find a mounting position that is unobstructed for several feet distance. The cat heater in my Sprinter works quite well, but it'd work even better if it wasn't pointed at a cabinet 18 inches away.

Mike, with all due respect lack of oxygen is not the critical issue with heaters, it's Carbon Monoxide. Carbon Monoxide binds with the hemoglobin in the blood and prevents it from carrying oxygen. The effect is cumulative and there no quick remedy to reverse the process.

Low oxygen is quickly reversed by access to clean air or oxygen.

The beauty of the Propex heater is that the air source for the combustion chamber comes from outside the vehicle, and the exhaust is also vented outside the vehicle. The heated air does not come into contact with the combustion chamber as it uses a heat exchanger system. This system reduces the chances of both oxygen depletion and Carbon Monoxide poisoning to very very low levels.

Any heater that exhausts to the interior, and or uses the air in a confined space for combustion vastly increases the chances of both oxygen depletion and CO poisoning.

 

[Martyn]

http://propexheatsource.co.uk/pdf/Heatsource_A3_brochure.pdf
Anyone have experience with these heaters? Interested in how quiet they are. Not happy with the sound of my 16,000 btu propane unit in my proven tiger. I know would be sacrificing major btu's, but once warm, wouldn't mind having a quieter "whisper?" heater running more often.

Here is a video of me running one of our portable heaters that use the HS2000 model. The sound is very low, sort of a low burbling noise.

 

[Borrego60]

My HS2000 works great,for me noise is not an issue.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Mike, with all due respect lack of oxygen is not the critical issue with heaters, it's Carbon Monoxide. Carbon Monoxide binds with the hemoglobin in the blood and prevents it from carrying oxygen. The effect is cumulative and there no quick remedy to reverse the process.

Low oxygen is quickly reversed by access to clean air or oxygen.

The beauty of the Propex heater is that the air source for the combustion chamber comes from outside the vehicle, and the exhaust is also vented outside the vehicle. The heated air does not come into contact with the combustion chamber as it uses a heat exchanger system. This system reduces the chances of both oxygen depletion and Carbon Monoxide poisoning to very very low levels.

Any heater that exhausts to the interior, and or uses the air in a confined space for combustion vastly increases the chances of both oxygen depletion and CO poisoning.

Agreed.

 

[dhally]

We have a Propex HS2000 and it is a lot quieter than our previous Suburban unit. However the Propex is ducted and the Suburban was direct discharge, and the Propex is only about 2/3 the output. Don't know about the HS2800.

 

[Borrego60]

Works great for a RTT.

 

[mvbeggs]

Works great for a RTT.

X2

 

[mhiscox]

Mike, with all due respect lack of oxygen is not the critical issue with heaters, it's Carbon Monoxide.

I just noticed that Martyn wrote this, and while I have the same respect for his views that he has for mine, we'll have to disagree on this one. As per the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission:

---

The peak CO concentration ranged from 68 ppm to 125 ppm and the steady state CO concentration ranged from 67 ppm to 109 ppm. Assuming a limited exposure time of up to 6.5 hours at these CO concentrations, the catalytic heater does not appear to pose a serious CO hazard to healthy adults when the CO concentration is considered by itself.

and

When the catalytic heater was operated in a closed room (ACH ~ 0), the oxygen was depleted from an ambient concentration of 20.9 percent to 8.8 percent. Because the catalytic heater can deplete the O2 concentration to such low levels, the heater poses a serious risk of hypoxia. The degree of hypoxia is further exacerbated by the moderate CO concentration and by an increase in the carbon dioxide concentration that accompanied the depletion of oxygen.

---

The report is here:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/co03.pdf.

 

[Herbie]

Further snippets from the report linked by mhiscox:

"Since the CO concentration in the chamber exceeded 100 ppm during several of the tests, the catalytic heater would not comply with the CO requirement ANSI Z21.63 (2000). "

"Although the catalytic heater would meet the CO emission requirement being proposed in the new standard for catalytic camp heaters, CPSC staff does not agree with allowing the CO concentration to reach 250 ppm in a closed room. Sustained exposure to a CO concentration of 250 ppm for 6 to 7 hours could pose a serious CO hazard to healthy adults. Depending on an exposed individual's activity level, this could result in carboxyhemoglobin levels ranging from 24 to 29 percent, where severe headache,
nausea, vomiting and mental confusion could be expected."

So, the takeaway that I get from this is: Both CO and hypoxia are risk factors for both Catalytic and Radiant Heaters. Whether or not either risk factor is pushed into a zone considered "dangerous" by the authors of that paper depends on a multitude of factors including the EXACT air exchange rate and which ANSI standard is being applied, and even those apply only to a "normal" adult.

 

[mvbeggs]

Catalytic Heater

Is the Propex really a catalytic heater? I believe, the Propex burns propane to heat the interior space's inside air pulled through the sealed heat exchanger, the combustion isn't heating the conditioned air directly. That said, I'd still vent the combustion gases to the outside and provide fresh outside air for combustion.

Mine sits outside the RTT when running. I provide a duct to bring the heated air in, and a return air duct back to the heater to reheat the tent's interior air.

BTW, I do use a CO detector in the tent when its running. With my unit outside, I'm more worried about a crack in the heat exchanger rather than the combustion buring all the oxygen in the tent.