Why does "size matter" in N.America???

[bftank]

thanks for your guys' service duva and scrubber. i really do appreciate the men and women that fight for our country. i think the thing we need to keep in mind here is that there are truly lots of people out there from many forums and not, willing to lend a hand, and combine for the greater good.

the reason i keep coming back to this thread is i feel that the point of views that have been stated are simply untrue and based on a lot of assumption, and it gives those of us that are out there busting our backs to provide for our families and help those around us live better lives very little credit.

yes there are idiots out there. there always have been, there always will be. the ability and ease for these particular individuals to get publicity through various forms of media has increased tremendously over the last few years. it makes it seem as though the public as a hole is going down hill fast i'm sure. let me assure you however that it is not.

in a different perspective. are free meals, free drugs, free housing, free healthcare, free retirement etc. going to be fought for by the people that take advantage of them? no they will not. if you can't work up the desire to get a job, you won't want to fight for your free stuff.

i agree our country needs to make some changes, and i don't think it is entirely too late. we can still vote politicians out of office, we can still by used cars and trucks that fit our needs better than the newer ones do, we are still allowed to grow our own food, we are allowed to choose which kind of healthcare we want.

i am sure there would be a lot of people out in parts of california that would think that i was killing the environment with my big truck due to high fuel consumption. what they don't know is that my truck is built out of recycled parts, gets 17-20 mpg and has the ability to run biodiesel without a problem. the excursion you saw most likely did get better than 7mpg. might have been paid for. might have been for hauling children to school. helping take kids to college in the fall, helping haul a trail cleanup trailer, etc. etc. we just don't know what kind of good people are up to these days without asking them.

if this thread was about lifted f650 on 44" super swamper with hydraulic dancing tiltbeds and 12" stacks i could agree, but it's not. its about large pickups being wasteful. just seems to be a silly argument especially to be posted in the general vehicle mods forum.

 

[Djlarroc]

interesteing thread.. and i'd have to say i agree w/both.. .

i believe the main reason, we as Americans have what we have is because we can. should we? well that depends.. if you really do need it, even a few times a year, then absolutely! if you can pay for it, absolutely!

but there are people here (in the US), who drive a hummer h2 to work everyday, filing bk, deadbeat dads, behind on car payments.. etc, etc.. = EGO. don't agree w/that.

i am somewhat of a minimalist. i say somewhat because although i do ride my bike to work as much as i can (26 miles RT), i also like my BMW.

i had a friend who had a dodge diesel, 8" lift, 40" tires.... never went off-road, and it was just such a waste IMO to spend $12k to build that truck. but, it was his money.

i apologize in advance, and don't mean to offend anyone w/this, but i also don't agree w/huge trailers and campers for hitting "the outdoors". just doesnt make sense to me. i can appreciate it's more comfortable and safe for families and kids, but imo, takes the whole "feel" of even getting out of the city.

 

[scrubber3]

The only thing I'm going to comment on about using more fuel than needed, and I'm probably gonna catch a lot of heat for this on here but it is the truth. Everybody on this forum loves driving off road in there vehicles for miles on end wether it's in our on backyards or across the world and some people even drive these vehicles as DD's. With that being said how much extra fuel do we actually consume doing this then the average person who just use there vehicles to commute? We contribute to using more fuel than needed wether we like it or not. Simply all we have to do is grab a pack and start walking or riding a bike or ride a horse instead of using a vehicle, which I'm sure most of us do, I do. I am not trying to make anybody mad or start something new here, it is just my opinion.

Also Scrubber3 do not ever regret willing to sacrifice you life for you country, this is still a great country with great people in it. We just need to weed out all the bad ones. I thank you for your service and everyone else on this forum who has served and thankful for the great people on this forum. For the record I am writing this currently in Camp Dwyer Afghanistan ooh rah! Semper Fi!

Hoorah!

Be safe over there brother.

 

[scrubber3]

Oh and gas guzzling vehicles do not increase gas prices. Greedy people increase gas prices. If we were all driving 50mpg cars the oil companies would just lower production to keep fuel prices up. That's common high school economics and I see it every day as I work in the oil industry.

Oh, I thought that if we lowered or consumption it would lead to less fuel used. Therefore lending probability to the supply vs demand aspect of the economics I learned in high school. You know, the one that said if you use less of something then the supply goes up, therefore lowering cost. I guess you would know better considering that you work in the oil industry though. Don't mind me asking... What is it that you do in the oil industry?

 

[brussum]

Oh, I thought that if we lowered or consumption it would lead to less fuel used. Therefore lending probability to the supply vs demand aspect of the economics I learned in high school. You know, the one that said if you use less of something then the supply goes up, therefore lowering cost. I guess you would know better considering that you work in the oil industry though. Don't mind me asking... What is it that you do in the oil industry?

That's assuming, of course, that you have a fixed supply of oil. I believe saiyan66's point was that the oil companies will decrease supply at a rate proportional to the decrease in demand; therefore, the net change in price will be negligible. They will do this, allegedly, to keep the price at the pump high and maintain a higher rate of profits.

 

[Ozrockrat]

Its not just America

SO my dad and I were talkign the other day as we were driving around one weekend. We had just nearly been squashed by some Jack-A** in a giant Ford F350 who's wallet and credit card limit FAR exceeded both is intellect and taste... Of course he was a "contractor" who was undoutably writing off the giant waste of energy and fuel as a business expence To clarify, I grew up working as a "helper/grunt" for my uncles contracting company and personally the guys who ACTUALLY work and use their truck for work DO NOT have 12" of lift and giant tires cause you can't load things into them...)

Anyway... Having lived in Australia for quite some time and, while living there, worked on a cattle ranch using 70-series Utes (in some of THE gnarliest conditions on the planet further proving the point of my querry that I'm getting to) something occurred to me while looking at the stupidity that was this particular F350:

Dave you you certainly scuffed up a meat ants nest with this lot. I come from the Australian farming / mining background. And without a doubt if we could of bought comfortable large capacity (F350, HD Dodge Ram etc) at a reasonable price we would of used them instead of Toyota's. There is no comparison between the cab comfort of a landcruiser 7* series and any of the big 4 pickups. Even the poverty pack versions. As for the gas guzzling, I was lucky to see 12 mpg out of my land cruiser (FJ75 with a Briggs 6 wheel conversion) but I currently get 15 - 17 out of my E350 7.3 lifted diesel van with oversize tires (and I can carry 15 people, usually freeloading Aussie relatives).

Anyway if you can explain to me the difference between what you saw as a problem with the F350 Jack A** and these guys (yes a ute that has probably never seen a boundary fence or a dingo drive) I would appreciate it.

 

[bftank]

that plays a part in it, however so does, legislation, EPA, safety regs, environmental regs, permitting, taxes, etc. etc.

quite a bit of the fuel we use in our vehicles is processed outside of our country where there are more refineries because they aren't allowed to build the necessary refineries here to process the fuel we use.

the permitting process is ridiculously slow.

dealing with uneducated "environmentalists" also expensive.

safety training to be compatible with the regs also expensive.

new technology to better handle the tighter regulations is trial and error also expensive.

and then there are the people playing the financial games with hedges, stocks, shares etc. trying to make a buck.

i am on the natural gas side of the oil field, i clean the water that is produced so that it can be used again in the same process.

what brussum said


and ozrockrat - right on! reminds me of mad max. wait wasn't that done in OZ as well?

 

[4Rescue]

...
if this thread was about lifted f650 on 44" super swamper with hydraulic dancing tiltbeds and 12" stacks i could agree, but it's not. its about large pickups being wasteful. just seems to be a silly argument especially to be posted in the general vehicle mods forum.

Since I MADE THE THREAD... I'll tell you it IS somewhat about those kinds of trucks being that, as I said, conservatively and at a guess 85% of full sizes on the road serve NO purpose other then some sort of psycholocical comfort to the driver. As I said, I think that FS trucks DO have their place it just seems odd how the ROW does JUST FINE in a smaller vehicle AND are less wastefull of finite resources. The truck mentioned above is just another example of Full-size trucks being as much about image as they are intended use.

I can understand people who are too large to fit in a compact truck, fine, that's a perfectly good reason. or the rancher hauling a horse trailer 1500 miles and what not, but as I mentioned in my OP (which has clearly been mis read and taken the wrong way by some of you... ) there are ALOT more trucks out there that are purely for "image" all the while dumping fuel out their tail pipes to make someone feel better. Seems pretty stupid to me, but then it's just my opinion.

Whoever said "if people in the ROW could drive domestic full-sized trucks they would".... you have clearly NEVER been to the ROW that I'm talking about. Domestic FS trucks would never work the way they do in America. It has alot to do with the infrastructure of the areas not ever being designed for vehicles that large...

I clearly pissed some insecure people who bought "that truck" off... Kinda proves my point. our need, as a nation, to always have the biggest "things" is merely a marketing ploy that prey's upon the insecure and maybe one in every 10 times sells a truck to someone who actually NEEDS it. Buy them if you like, that's fine, but maybe THINK about why you do the things you do and ask yourself: Why am I doing this... I seriously doubt half the folks chim ing in have ever been and worked in the places or environments I have (although I realize some certainly HAVE at the same time) and frankly VERY FEW PEOPLE in this world have ANY need for a Full-size truck.

 

[4Rescue]

Dave you you certainly scuffed up a meat ants nest with this lot. I come from the Australian farming / mining background. And without a doubt if we could of bought comfortable large capacity (F350, HD Dodge Ram etc) at a reasonable price we would of used them instead of Toyota's. There is no comparison between the cab comfort of a landcruiser 7* series and any of the big 4 pickups. Even the poverty pack versions. As for the gas guzzling, I was lucky to see 12 mpg out of my land cruiser (FJ75 with a Briggs 6 wheel conversion) but I currently get 15 - 17 out of my E350 7.3 lifted diesel van with oversize tires (and I can carry 15 people, usually freeloading Aussie relatives).

Anyway if you can explain to me the difference between what you saw as a problem with the F350 Jack A** and these guys (yes a ute that has probably never seen a boundary fence or a dingo drive) I would appreciate it.

View attachment 78744

Yeah, you got me there aye... The "ute culture" in OZ is something else and is certainly akin to the trucks I'm talking about... still, they're far smaller, use alot less fuel and aren't tall enough to drive OVER other drivers when the hoon behind the wheel has a brain fart aye

You meat ant nest comment about made me spit my drink all over the computer HAHAHA I got into so many of thoise dam things cutting up downed trees for fire wood I just got used to the horrific pain of the bites after awhile. The dam things would FOLLOW me and the chain saw down to the next log and just ATTACK!!!! But then ALOT of things in OZ like to bite you aye.

Personaly, we had one big Dodge truck from the 60's for hauling stray cattle back out to the paddocks, but NOTHING would have worked on the property like a 75 did and frankly, I don't think that one of the big 3's trucks would have ever LASTED (that's another aspect of Domestic full sizes and most modern vehicles: planned obsolescence ) I was glad to have my HJ75 and would very glad to see them here. I agree, a Domestic Quad cab is far more comfortable then a short cab ute, but then I never found a time when I was so uncomfortable I couldn't stand it and I drove the bugger out to Alice springs from Biloella in the S-Central coast area. Worst thing for me was getting used to the RHD and slamming my fingers into the CB every time I found 3rd

Cheers

DAve

 

[SSF556]

Is this an Australian Gov't issue?....sort of like their obsession with banning guns?

 

[Buliwyf]

I clearly pissed some insecure people who bought "that truck" off... .

Meh. This whole website could be viewed as "that truck" by certain people. That's the real hornets nest.
-Who really needs to drive off road to remote locations? It's more enviromentally friendly to just drive to the rest stop on the freeway for a picnic.
-Who needs to travel with a truck. Why not a Prius? Or super enviromentally friendly train?
- Driving around for fun is a waste of natural resources. Driving should only be for work. Driving offroad kills the forest/desert/moon.
-Who needs a car that deosn't have a flower holder on the dash?

Oh, and in the US most small car and SUV owners are far more wasteful than fullsize truck drivers. The most popular cars get tossed in the junkyard every 10 years. Even poor people drive brand new cars. Little SUV's drink as much fuel as big work trucks.

But I agree about huge useless lifted trucks, with giant pipes "rolling coal".

And to touch a point about soccar moms with large SUV's and trucks. If you love your familly, you put them in a Suburban, Excursion, F350 CC, etc. etc. A drunk in a Toyota Camry isn't going to hurt a F350 as bad as he could another Camry or Honda Accord. Keep in mind America has serious drinking/drug problems.

 

[HumphreyBear]

Actually the people of Australia as a rule are quite happy with the ban on guns, it is not a government conspiracy. There are valid exemptions to the restrictions where necessary, and there is small number of people who would love to have a .50 cal in a bunker by their front door but all up we're happy, thank you. Gun crime is so aberrant and unknown that the occassional shooting is big news and the press jump on it and blow it out of proportion in order to garner ratings. Larger American trucks are avaialble here, though as with most imported goods here there is a 'middleman' premium which goes towards keeping importers and distributors in caviar and frilly lace doilies - and some people find them useful, contractors and the like, but most contractors I know/see love their Falcon/Commodore utes, Hiluxes or equivalent etc. If they need a bigger vehicle for work they move up to a small truck (sml Australian truck = Mitsubishi Fuso etc. just a terminology difference - we still refer to Land Cruisers as cars and Hiluxes as utes, mostly).
.
There is a proportionally small group of very 'pretty' lowered V8 utes around, but they are the functional equivalent of tits on a bull. I work in IT and lots of our well paid young engineers come in with hotted up V8 utes that they would be horrified to put a toolbox near, all those sharp edges might chip the paint work... To your point we do have government enforced 'lift' restrictions which vary from state to state, but I believe average out at a maximum of 3-4" depending on where you are. Someone else may correct me there.

 

[McZippie]

.
Top Ten Reasons why I own the above 2001 Ford Excursion.
.
10 Heavy Duty Towing
9 Reliable 7.3 Diesel, full F250/350 truck frame
8 Good fuel mileage (15mpg)
7 Enough room to sleep inside while camping
6 Cruise at 85 mph while towing a 5000 lbs trailer
5 Real 4wd with straight axles.
4 Haul 4ft x 8ft sheet good flat inside
3 Nothing else made with it's capabilities today to replace it with
2 Family Safety
.
#1 reason I own an Excusion, because it is the only vehicle to be bestowed with the much coveted Sierra Club's "Exxon Valdez Award"

http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/feb99/022599f.htm

 

[Saiyan66]

That's assuming, of course, that you have a fixed supply of oil. I believe saiyan66's point was that the oil companies will decrease supply at a rate proportional to the decrease in demand; therefore, the net change in price will be negligible. They will do this, allegedly, to keep the price at the pump high and maintain a higher rate of profits.

Bingo! When you are able to control supply, you remove the consumer's ability to influence the "supply and demand" aspect of business. Unfortunately for us oil isn't like food, they don't have to sell it to us tomorrow or it will spoil. The oil industry sickens me and if there was any other work to be done I would not be in it. The obscene amount of profit is staggering. Oh and I am a geologist who works on site at oil rigs during the drilling process to help them make sure they stay in the most profitable zone of production.

 

[bfdiesel]

I would, from my prospective, say that 85%-90% of full size trucks get used for their intended purpose. The 10%-15% that the OP is noticing are not, they are just more visible being lifted 14" and riding on 53's . This observation is based on where I live and work, not were he lives and works so....

Any one towing a trailer with an actual tractor on it saying that a small vehicle with small brakes is a good idea has yet to hit a mountain pass and have the trailer brakes fail some how( blown fuse, fried controller, brake fade on the trailer). I have had a loaded trailer(14k) loose its brakes on Eisenhower tunnel heading west. It was not by any means fun. The truck, a 04 GMC 2500hd, got a major braking test and that was just to keep it below 50 MPH. Full size trucks are built to start and STOP to their load rating, so even if the trailer brakes fail you can still safely stop the vehicle. I am very thankful I was not in a mid size truck when that happened.

For me I now have a Ram 2500 that seats six. I currently have four in the family, number five due in March and more planned on the way. I do tow a trailer (a stock and a flat bed) in mountainous terrain and that requires, I believe, a full size truck. I suppose I could have bought a single cab short bed 3/4 ton pickup for towing and had my wife follow me in her Compass (could tow more as there would be less truck weight), but this doubles up on fuel and wear and tear and more importantly would have the family spread out instead of together. This route allows us to travel together as a family longer, once/if we break over to the magic number seven we will have to take two vehicles.

I have seven nieces and nephews living close by so I bought the suburban to take all the kids sledding in the winter and to take my immediate family camping in the summer. Even with three row seating I can't legally fit every one in the burb to go sledding. It also pulls DD duty for me going to work and runs on biodiesel or WMO as much as winter temps allow. Currently it is running about b30 and even that is cloudy some mornings.

We ( Wife and I) have picked our vehicles based on needs, safety, future family plans, and yes some wants.

North American infrastructure supports having larger vehicles that comes from the fact we don't have hundreds of year old cities that were put together around hand and horse carts. I fully believe if older regions had more room they would fill it too.

To fully know why some one is driving what they are you would have to walk in their shoes and share the experiences that drive their reasoning.