Solid front axle AND Coil springs

[pete.wilson]

Hey

I had contacted a couple of companies about modifying my 95 Ford/Horton E350 ambulance that I had at the time which had a 7.3l turbo diesel and I think it was advance 4WD systems (if I remember right) quoted me $13,200.00 to convert it to 4WD, a little too expensive for my taste (the two that replied were within a couple of hundred from each other). I'm going to be building my 94 GMC Sub that I have now. I plan on keeping the IFS but will next year add a 6 inch lift. I would recommend if you do it; go to a reputable, well known facility due to safety and better engineering.

 

[G35Vortec454]

What if . . .

What if I use the original donor-K3500 front diff and axles and hubs, fabricate the mount/link to the van/RV, AND purchase one of the already engineered lift kits from RCD / Tuff Country / Camburg, etc.? I may have to use the original torsion bars, too?

Any input on the above approach?

 

[ntsqd]

I believe the soon to be released ORD 4-link kit is designed to use your existing front axle. It is designed to fit the '73-'91 K5/K10/K20 GM 4wd frame. How close your frame is to those will determine how much of a bolt-on kit it is.

Never mix spring types. They each have their own spring rate deltas and mixing them can make getting the shock valving even close to correct an absolute nightmare. We were tempted to try it anyway on a friend's Dura-Max project as we were a little uncomfortable with where the spring load met the lower control arm, but it just wasn't worth the headache, so instead of 3" Kings with light springs it got 3" Kings with weight appropriate springs. Never was an issue for the time he owned the truck.

 

[G35Vortec454]

ntsqd, thanks for staying with this thread.

Yes, I've been looking over ORU's (and ORD's) website and they carry all 7 brands of suspensions lifts (ORD sells Tuff Country), including CST which is very local to my place. One thing I can't find is something specific to K3500. But if I'm "fabricating it" into a non-target vehicle anyway, it doesn't matter to me as long as the entire kit assembly is strong enough (may need additional heat treating?) and is engineered for proper suspension/steering/tracking geometry.

Chris/Ujointclothing, I live in San Bernardino and we've "talked" in the past (via the 4x4van Yahoo group) when you were still working in Burbank/ORU.

I'm looking for a suspension kit that is most complete inorder to minimize mismatches - one that already includes lower and upper arms, spindles, cross members, steering knuckles/kits, spring/shock mounts, trackbars (may be optional as this is easy to fabricate and locate), etc that I may have missed. So far the "most" complete kit I see are the new Fabtechs, but the lifts are too high; I need only 4-5 inches of lift, but since the van's frame rails are higher than pickups', 6-10 may be OK. Currently as a 2WD, the RV sits on a "fabricated into" Fabtech 4.5-inch spindle lift suspension, and after having driven it for more than 7K miles I'm happy with the steering/tracking/etc. BUT now I would like some drive-power from those front wheels.

Once I have all the front suspension parts, I'm gonna fabricate (or have someone do it) the brackets/links etc. to the differential and frame, including engine mounts. If I have to I can have the axles lenghthend / shortened / adjusted and probably wouldn't hurt to use double-cardan CV joints. Then the whole assembly "should" just be able to be placed under the existing van frame rails.

What do you guys think?

Of course, the Ford Dana 60 solid axle with coils (as Crawler had suggested w/ Donahue racing's, I'm gonna look more into that) can also be used along the same principles but if it's much more difficult to fit, even with an engineered aftermarket Ford suspension kit, then I'm thinking why not use the GM front diff that I already have.

 

[ntsqd]

Some pics off Race-dezert of the ORD system:

 

[G35Vortec454]

Some pics off Race-dezert of the ORD system:

Thanks,

That looks VERY simple, but I think the very high lift nature of it provides a lot of space down there.

 

[ntsqd]

Keep in mind that these K series frames do not have a lot of rise over their front axle. The only way to get a lot of bump travel with them is to go up. If the van's frame has more rise then it won't result in as tall of a ride height.

In any case, it's the closest to fitting kit that I know of. The less you have to have custom made the lower the overal cost, but at some point in trying to make any particular kit fit you might as well have started from scratch. I advise lots and lots of thinking, pondering, & measuring. If you're not going to be doing the work then I suggest getting whomever is going to be doing the work involved early in the selection process. I know of a reputable shop that has done work like this (I've worked with them on past similarly involved projects), but they are not very local to you.

 

[ujoint]

First off, the IFS swap is going to be a complete nightmare to install properly on your van. And then, when it's done, you still have a not so great unreliable IFS 4x4. Waaaaaay too much work. Did you say the van already has a t-case? If not, that's the first thing to do. I know you have a late model vortec engine, but what tranny are you running? If it's late model as well, then you'll have to run a Ford axle, which was talked about earlier. Don't even consider a divorced t-case. The late model axle could be used, and a custom x-member could be made for the 4link or radius arm, depending on which route you decide to take. ----------- The ORD kit is awesome, and could be somewhat utilized if you run a chevy t-case. They probably won't piece out the kit, but all you would need would be the axle mounts, the frame mounts won't work for you. So I guess the question right now is the t-case/tranny issue.

 

[G35Vortec454]

The ORD kit is awesome, and could be somewhat utilized if you run a chevy t-case. They probably won't piece out the kit, but all you would need would be the axle mounts, the frame mounts won't work for you. So I guess the question right now is the t-case/tranny issue.

Chris, yes I've been driving the RV for the past 7K miles with the transfer case installed (stock '98 BW4470) behind the stock '98 4L80E transmission, and of course the '98 Vortec 454.

What I hear you saying is get a late-model Ford Dana60 and the ORD Ford D60 kit, fabricate axle mounts, and walla I have a coil sprung front end!!! Well, I know I'll have to drill or weld the kit's attachment points but I can do that, along with a lot of elbow grease. That would be wonderful. I will surely look seriously into that.

Thanks.

(Edit: I don't see a kit in ORD's website. They mention the Tuff Counry EZ-Ride suspension kits)

 

[jkam]

Who installed the transfer case? Is it for a Ford or a Chevy?

My 86 G30 Pathfinder has leaf spring front suspension using a Dana 44 from a Ford.
It has to be a Ford axle so the driveshaft comes out on the left to clear the frame of the Chevy. Same for the transfer case, needs to be Ford as well.
Mine is a BW 1345 and connected to a Turbo 400.

 

[G35Vortec454]

Who installed the transfer case? Is it for a Ford or a Chevy?

I installed the BW4470 transfer case myself. It is the original Chevy transfer case from the K3500 donor vehicle and it's the 1-ton heavy duty version of your BW1345. I used it in place of an adapter for two reasons: 1) I couldn't easily find an adapter for the '98 K3500 4WD 4L80E tranny to the '79 RV's 2WD 2-piece drive shafts, 2) I knew I might want to convert to 4WD later.

You're right what I need is a driver-side diff axle like the Ford's, but I need it beefier than a D44 due to my 10500# GVWR.

The two options I'm considering right now for coil suspension are:

1. 99-up F250/F350 suspension KIT and a D60 axle
2. the "most" complete GM K2500HD/3500 suspension kit (I'll use the original donor K3500's front differential and axles).

JKAM, why does the transfer case have to be also a Ford? The BW4470 front output shaft goes through the driver side and the front driveshaft could easily be lengthened or shortened, or any of the driveshaft's ends could be adapted for either Chevy or Ford's.

 

[ujoint]

You're not going to be able to use any of the ORD stuff. The next step for you is to get under a late model F250/350 and take some measurements. The first that I would check is the width of the radius arms, center to center. Then you can compare it to your frame. Even though it seems like it's going to be a somewhat easy swap, it's not, there are allot of things that need to checked out. It's even harder when you want to keep the rig as low as possible. If you're going to have a shop do the work, get them involved now and let them know the route you want to take.

 

[ntsqd]

I would completely abandon any idea of using the GM 4wd IFS stuff. If you have to have IFS look at the TTB's. They have some issues, but solutions are out there and available.
In your weight range a D44/GM10b isn't an option either. They'd likely carry the weight, but they aren't strong enough to actually be used in 4wd.
Later Fords use a 4 link instead of the radius arm. Might have a look at Cage Off Road's SD parts, could save some fab time & expense.

Second getting a shop involved early in the process.

 

[ujoint]

I would completely abandon any idea of using the GM 4wd IFS stuff. If you have to have IFS look at the TTB's. They have some issues, but solutions are out there and available.
In your weight range a D44/GM10b isn't an option either. They'd likely carry the weight, but they aren't strong enough to actually be used in 4wd.
Later Fords use a 4 link instead of the radius arm. Might have a look at Cage Off Road's SD parts, could save some fab time & expense.

Second getting a shop involved early in the process.

I agree, but the 05 to current Ford come from the factory with radius arms. There are 4 link lift kits available through several manufacturers.

 

[jkam]

I installed the BW4470 transfer case myself. It is the original Chevy transfer case from the K3500 donor vehicle and it's the 1-ton heavy duty version of your BW1345. I used it in place of an adapter for two reasons: 1) I couldn't easily find an adapter for the '98 K3500 4WD 4L80E tranny to the '79 RV's 2WD 2-piece drive shafts, 2) I knew I might want to convert to 4WD later.

You're right what I need is a driver-side diff axle like the Ford's, but I need it beefier than a D44 due to my 10500# GVWR.

The two options I'm considering right now for coil suspension are:

1. 99-up F250/F350 suspension KIT and a D60 axle
2. the "most" complete GM K2500HD/3500 suspension kit (I'll use the original donor K3500's front differential and axles).

JKAM, why does the transfer case have to be also a Ford? The BW4470 front output shaft goes through the driver side and the front driveshaft could easily be lengthened or shortened, or any of the driveshaft's ends could be adapted for either Chevy or Ford's.

On my setup, the transfer case used was for a Ford with the left side output to the front so it would match to the axle.
Since your TC does that you should be fine with that setup.

Me, I would go with leaf springs becasue it will be much easier of a conversion and ditch the duals in the rear for some singles. Pathfinder might be able to help with info on the front Dana 60 you need. Gordon is a good source of info.