73' Series III 109"

[evilram]

Hey All,

I'm hoping this is an ok section to post this: I am about to go pick up a 73' Series III 109". It is for $4500 and in pretty good shape.

There is small amounts of rot in some places, but nothing terrible nor cancerous. The engine runs, but the tranny is knackered (although a replacement is sitting in the boot area).

There are muliple replacement parts from British pacific ready to be installed as well. I think its a good deal, but sorry I have no pics. I need to know by today and don't really know enough about the "value" of some of these beasts.

 

[Wander]

Have you taken a small hammer or large screwdriver to the rust areas? If the info is from the seller that maybe optomistic as the frames rust from the inside out mostly. If the tranny is gone I'm thinking the engine isn't far behind and maybe running to get it sold, the trannys are stout and aren't failure prone. It's good there is another but in what condition and why isn't it installed? Same for the other parts? If the rust is more than just in spots and the drivetrain is in poor shape I think $4500 would be a little strong for a 73 SIII. The SIII generally do not get the same money as IIa's.

How is the interior, does the lights/wiper motor/heater work?

Pics would help. But expecting the worst I'd cut about $1500 off the cost.

 

[TeriAnn]

Unlike the previous poster, without seeing it I think you are mid price range for what you got. 109s are fewer in the US and 1967 was the last year they were imported to the US. Your SIII 109 has a Salisbury rear end that is a VAST improvement over the standard Rover rear diff. and you have the power brakes that almost all US spec 109s got from the factory. Your door hinges are better as well as the anti burst door latches. You have the dual speed wiper motors that work LOTs better than the individual wiper motors.

Yes some people have trouble with the looks of the instrument panel, but it is their problem, not yours unless you let it be.

BTW, British Pacific just yesterday put up a new web site that provides access to parts not specific to US models. This will let you get to SIII 109 specific parts and if one day you pan to drop a tdi into the truck they now offer tdi engine parts

Welcome to the Series Land Rover fold :wavey:

 

[Wander]

Unlike the previous poster, without seeing it I think you are mid price range for what you got. 109s are fewer in the US and 1967 was the last year they were imported to the US. Your SIII 109 has a Salisbury rear end that is a VAST improvement over the standard Rover rear diff. and you have the power brakes that almost all US spec 109s got from the factory. Your door hinges are better as well as the anti burst door latches. You have the dual speed wiper motors that work LOTs better than the individual wiper motors.

Yes some people have trouble with the looks of the instrument panel, but it is their problem, not yours unless you let it be.

BTW, British Pacific just yesterday put up a new web site that provides access to parts not specific to US models. This will let you get to SIII 109 specific parts and if one day you pan to drop a tdi into the truck they now offer tdi engine parts

Welcome to the Series Land Rover fold :wavey:

Which is why I mentioned worst case situation. I was trying to give him a range to work from and maybe interject a few thoughts to help him evaluate the truck.

 

[evilram]

I did not take a screwdriver or hammer to the panels. I got under it and didn't see any rust on the frame, but I am aware of how tricky it can be. I did the ol' tap and listen method on the panels and they all seemed unmolested.

The sill plates have some rust, and the doors a bit as well. However, new doors and full interior are sitting inside.

He didn't say why the tranny is messed up. All I know is that he picked it up in England and brought it over himself. I'll try and get more details. All of the parts (transmission, seats, doors, & new springs) are all British Pacific parts that were brought over along with the beasty...

I haven't inspected much as this would be a foreign field for me. I didn't want to waste his time if that was way too high of a cost anyways...

The one concern I have is that the VIN didn't pull up an exact year per LR stateside. I guess it produced a "range" from 73-79 from what I'm told. I know the guy is an honest cat, and does know quite a bit about Rovers as well. But, no one likes getting screwed...

 

[Wander]

A 73 would have a serial number, VIN's started later so that isn't a red flag. You can go to www.lrfaq.org with the serial number to see if it's within the correct range of a 73 and get more details for that model.

$4,500 isn't a bad price, sorry if I wasn't clear, there are just a couple things that struck me as possible indications of further issues but I am by no means an expert, I just spent a year learning and searching for my IIa and was passing along observtions. In the end-go with your gut, if it feels wrong it probably is.

What color?

 

[galen216]

Don't take a hammer and screwdriver to the panels. Do that to the frame. They rust from the inside out. It may look nice but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

$4500 isn't bad if the bulkhead and frame are good. Everything else can be fixed.

 

[Snagger]

SIIIs had several updates to the transmission over the 14 years they were produced. The suffix D and later boxes were the best. The principal changes were to the reverse idler gear, bearing and shaft and the synchro units (trying to make them less prone to wear and jumping out of gear). The transfer box was the same as for the SII suffix C onwards, and the front axle is the same except on post 1980 models (which had 24 spline diffs).

Typical problems that a SIII transmission can show are jumping gears, stripped teeth from the reverse idler or 1st/2nd synchro (which are used for the reverse gear idler to engage on), a failed 2nd/3rd gear bush on the main shaft, failed springs in the 3rd/4th synchro (which can cause the unit to jam) or worn synchro baulk rings. Of those, I have only suffered the broken synchro springs, but I have also had a heat cracked 2nd gear on the main shaft caused by incorrect assembly at the factory.

Series boxes do weep oil from the selector rod seals on the top, and there seems to be nothing you can do to stop this, but it's just weeping and sweating, not proper leaking. They also tend to throw oil from the gear box into the transfer box, and this is generally due to the rear bearing carrier not being seated into the casing with bearing seating and sealing compound (it's a bit like thread lock) rather than a faulty rear seal.

I don't know what US prices are like, but you're very welcome to look at my rebuild blog to see all the repairs and mods I did to the 109 I built from top to bottom: www.nickslandrover.co.uk

 

[evilram]

SIIIs had several updates to the transmission over the 14 years they were produced. The suffix D and later boxes were the best. The principal changes were to the reverse idler gear, bearing and shaft and the synchro units (trying to make them less prone to wear and jumping out of gear). The transfer box was the same as for the SII suffix C onwards, and the front axle is the same except on post 1980 models (which had 24 spline diffs).

Typical problems that a SIII transmission can show are jumping gears, stripped teeth from the reverse idler or 1st/2nd synchro (which are used for the reverse gear idler to engage on), a failed 2nd/3rd gear bush on the main shaft, failed springs in the 3rd/4th synchro (which can cause the unit to jam) or worn synchro baulk rings. Of those, I have only suffered the broken synchro springs, but I have also had a heat cracked 2nd gear on the main shaft caused by incorrect assembly at the factory.

Series boxes do weep oil from the selector rod seals on the top, and there seems to be nothing you can do to stop this, but it's just weeping and sweating, not proper leaking. They also tend to throw oil from the gear box into the transfer box, and this is generally due to the rear bearing carrier not being seated into the casing with bearing seating and sealing compound (it's a bit like thread lock) rather than a faulty rear seal.

I don't know what US prices are like, but you're very welcome to look at my rebuild blog to see all the repairs and mods I did to the 109 I built from top to bottom: www.nickslandrover.co.uk

Well I'm excited to say I should be picking her up this week. I am hoping tomorrow or Friday. Lord knows I have no time for this, and probably would be better off lighting the money on fire, but I'm darned excited all the same!!!

She is a blue & white, suffix D, and is indeed a Series III. I am very excited!!! :wings::wings:

As long as my Dodge doesn't get jealous we'll be one happy family!

I'll get pictures as soon as shes home! Cheers to everyone for the information!

 

[Wander]

Conrgats! Welcome the insanity of a series! Post some pictures when you can and don't get in a hurry, enjoy the build and getting to know her. They are a fun beast to wrench upon and very simple mechanically, often the engineering will leave you wondering but at least you can get to it with basic tools and a hammer.

I just wheeled my 88 all over Uwharrie and it was a mule on the trails getting past the obsticles with little drama and stiff upper lip. I did have my shifter shear off (a know issue on a IIa) but a little time with a borrowed welder in a parking lot and I was back in business.