110's and Discos

[CoastalDefender]

Just wondering really, so please don't hammer me for the Q's.

What's the appeal of the Land Rovers (especially the 110)? Now, I really really like the hard-box look of them. They are a very attractive vehicle. But are they really worth the price tags I see them listed for? Is there anything about the vehicles that make them better "out-of-the-box" than alternatives.

Or is it just a personal preference type deal?

I have an '05 Nissan Frontier, and I have trouble finding what a 110 or Disco has over my vehicle, without mods.

Someone school me on the Rovers.

And is a petrol-powered stick shifted 110 really worth the $45k they are asking for them in my neck of the woods?

 

[DaktariEd]

First...I would never expect anyone on this forum to hammer you or anyone else for asking questions. This place is unlike any other. We don't care much for the aggression and bad manners so prevalent on other forums. The rules are pretty clear. Those who do come in with an attitude may get a PM asking them to chill or leave...unk03:

So, with that said...regarding your question...I haven't the foggiest idea! :xxrotflma

The Land Rover is a very cool vehicle. There is really something "romantic" about it...at least the older series Rovers and the 110 & 130. There are several nice ones represented here on ExPo. But they may be attending the LR National Rally right now. When they return, they may be chiming in.

But I've always had a burn for an old Rover...since I was a kid and that was...well...a while ago.

As for the price tags....it's whatever the market will bear.
People are willing to pay a premium for the '93 NAS 110's...but it's a tad much for me...

:sombrero:

 

[Michael Slade]

And is a petrol-powered stick shifted 110 really worth the $45k they are asking for them in my neck of the woods?

To some yes...to me...no.

The Disco's are pretty sweet...cheap, capable, modifiable...just like an old Range Rover.

I didn't get to go to the Ralley...I ran out of money framing my basement.

 

[Blair G]

Just wondering really, so please don't hammer me for the Q's.

What's the appeal of the Land Rovers (especially the 110)? Now, I really really like the hard-box look of them. They are a very attractive vehicle. But are they really worth the price tags I see them listed for? Is there anything about the vehicles that make them better "out-of-the-box" than alternatives.

Or is it just a personal preference type deal?

I have an '05 Nissan Frontier, and I have trouble finding what a 110 or Disco has over my vehicle, without mods.

Someone school me on the Rovers.

And is a petrol-powered stick shifted 110 really worth the $45k they are asking for them in my neck of the woods?

No

 

[Scott Brady]

It is just a matter of supply and demand. Only 500 NAS 110 were brought into the country. They have a great look and classic appeal, making them very desirable.

You will see 50+ Nissans in an average day, and might see one 110 in a year. People are more than willing to pay for that exclusivity...

 

[CoastalDefender]

Makes total sense, I can appreciate it.

Just wanted to make sure there was no hidden aspect of them that warranted a $40k tag of which I was unaware.

 

[ini88]

110s are amazing trucks. Yeah $45,000 for a 14-year-old vehicle sounds outrageous but you must keep in mind that these are very rare. So the rarity of the truck adds onto the price tag.

In the UK, these trucks are a dime a dozen and sell cheap like used Hondas do here in the states. But for the 500 that Land Rover imported in 1993, you can say they are a super rare truck.

I have a Defender 90 and it also is rare, but not clearly as rare as a 110. The Price for 90s can even get steep depending on what the consumer is willing to buy one for.

For me, I’ve always wanted a Defender since I first saw a Series truck when I was 5 years old...which led me into pursuing a Defender (the take off of the Series). Yes they have a "romantic" sense to them and a feeling that you are capable of going on a long adventure though the jungles of Malaysia as seem in the Camel Trophy years.

For me, I love my Defender and would never trade it. But for others, a new Nissan, Toyota or Jeep will do. And those trucks are completely capable. It’s just a matter of choice and preference I guess.

btw, Hi! im kinda new to the boards. DaktariEd is right, I get a good feeling coming to this forum, as everyone seems to just want to have a good time in their trucks. doesn't matter what you drive as long as you love it.

 

[bigreen505]

I might suggest a read of this thread where we unsuccessfully try to talk mountainPete into buying one. My comments on that thread pretty much hold true:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainpete
Please talk me out of it...

A Defender 90 is hard to justify from any logical perspective. They are grossly overpriced, uncomfortable and unreliable. The Toyota is better from every logical perspective. I tell myself this daily. Maybe one day I will believe it. The problem is that the D90 is the epitome of cool and sexy in a raw adventure sort of way, and whether you choose to admit it or not, vehicles are emotional. Many people go out and find a woman who is simple, low maintenance and easy going, like the Tacoma. Some prefer the female equivalent of the D90 -- British, drop dead gorgeous and always up for adventure.

Both the D90, and the female equivalent, are hard to rationalize beyond the primal, caveman "ooh, I want that!" instinct. But sometimes you just have to give in to the magic, the mystique, the beauty and the lust.

It is a pretty stupid thing to do, but sometimes you just have to anyway. Think of it this way, if you decide you don't like the D90, you will always be able to sell it for whatever you have into it. Because there always be men lusting after women, and trucks, like the D90, and always willing to pay their price, regardless of how high it may be.

Wait, what did you ask? Oh, just buy the thing.

There are some very cool D110's on this forum and I'll include Mr. Slade's D130 in there, but there were built more than bought. Don't get me wrong, Defenders are incredibly capable and unique vehicles, but what you are paying $45,000 for an old, off the shelf one, is more mystique than anything else.

Disco's are a little harder. They are supremely capable vehicles whether stock or built. But they are heavy, drink premium fuel like it is going out of style, small cargo capacity relative to the size. Pro: they are getting quite inexpensive on the used market. Con: they are inexpensive because of reliability problems -- whether real or perceived.

 

[Green96D1]

I love my Disco and wouldn't trade it for anything.

The only thing I have to say is that a Land Rover can be as reliable as the next thing out there.

I had my Disco about 2 years and the only thing that has failed was a old fuel pump.

My mother has had her Discovery II about 7 years now and the truck has ran very well other than a gasket change after five years I would say that these trucks in the right hands and owners can last as long as any toyota or honda it just may cost more.

I do maintain my truck and it runs good. currently at 107K miles and still going strong.

I think Land rovers receives somewhat poor rating is that most owners "soccer moms" don't maintain them the way their supposed to just expecting them to run like airplanes.

Land Rover may not be the best4x4xfar but it is far from poor build quality and a pain it the neck.

 

[ini88]

I think Land rovers receives somewhat poor rating is that most owners "soccer moms" don't maintain them the way their supposed to just expecting them to run like airplanes.

This is very true! Land Rovers if maintained properly and taken care of will out last most cars. Before Ford bought them from BMW, the older trucks seemed to be more like tanks and would run forever.

Remember they are weird British trucks and have little unique things to them that you must take care of and fix. if you do this, they will outlast their owners.

 

[Scott Brady]

My 2001 LR never left me stranded, just had annoying little issues (35 of them in less than 30,000 miles since new).

That is why I would buy a 90/110 or D1 with the minimal complexities possible.

Or, you can buy the modern variant of the 110, the 4-door JK Rubicon, and get a lifetime warranty no less. However, they seem to be in as much demand, and are the most popular vehicle in the US right now (lowest days of inventory).

I am driving one right now while playing around in Tahoe, and am smitten pretty bad.

 

[CoastalDefender]

Well, as far as I am concerned, any vehicle will outlast its owner with aggressive PM service.

So Defenders are simply so overpriced because of their scarcity in the states. Makes sense.

How about the discos? I've noticed their resell value is crap. Place in Seattle on Aurora has about 5-6 Disco2's, each under 9k. Lowest was 6k.

Seems a bargain, unless upkeep/replacement parts are super expensive.

We have the Frontier (and a '95 4Runner), but I am looking at a secondary vehicle. Possibly with the sole use as an Expedition rig. And I really am interested in it being an SUV. The Discovery is really appealing to me, but the discrepancy in the 110's and the Discovery had be flabbergasted. (I love that word, use it as much as possible. That and Neoteny.)

Digressing, it seems that a Defender is to a Discovery what a Hardbody is to a Frontier? All quality rigs, just a matter of preference and tastes.

 

[Ruffin' It]

The Unabridged version

I think a lot of it is the romance and history. You are also buying a legacy when you buy a LR. But there are other reasons; Rovers are VERY capable out of the box. It's true the years the Disco's came without a CDL they were significantly hindered, but by in large they are pretty impressive. More than a couple of times I have reached the peak of a trail in my bone stock Disco and met up with people who were floored a stock truck was able to negotiate such terrain. Many times I have gone around lifted pickups and motorcycles were not able to compelete a difficult portion of trail only to motor up it with one hand on the wheel, a drink in the drink holder and climate control pumping out a steady 70 degrees - stock. You also get the articulation and ride of coil springs, something leaf springs can't really match without making compromises.
There is also the build of the vehicle. Look under one sometime. The only things I see that are built like a Rover are LC's and trains. Just the radius arms alone are impressive as is the factory guard behind the factory plastic airdam. I bounced my airdam off a tree stump buried in mud hard enough to lift my front end up. I honestly thought I was going to be bringing my bumper home on my roof rack. But, because LR over builds their products to such a high degree, there was only a couple light scratches to show for it. What other manufacture reinforces the plastic under the bumper so much that you can lift the vehicle by it (Wow, you're still reading this?!?) without destroying anything?
There is also a ton of small things like the air intake. It draws from in between the inner and outer front fender above the height of the headlight. The real fording depth of a Rover is very deep (as long as you keep your bow wake and don't stop). I've been able to reach out of my window and touch the water with a bow wave that continuiously crested my hood without any problems. Or those wonderful rain gutters that not only allow you to put obscene amounts of weight over your head, but also let you drive with the windows half open in all but the most severe rain storms.

Disco's also have a great wheelbase for off-road. I love Toyotas and all but Tacos, 4Runners, and LC just can't turn like a Disco. The short wheel base also gives you some help with your breakover angle. D110's are not as agile, but clearance is great regardless and the fact that they are bolted together, not welded makes them pretty much indestructable.

Space is a nice benifit too. My personal preferences is an SUV for off road. I like having everything inside and within reach. With a pickup you either have to leave your gear exposed in an open bed, or put a cap on and work around it when trying to retreive things at the front.

Finally, there is the interior. Rover's aren't fancy, but they are nice. D110's are all busniess. Well-built and very functional interiors with TONS of storage space that won't destroy all of your belongings with a harsh ride. Need to screw or bolt something into the interior? Easy - you don't have to start pulling pannels off and figure a way to mount something without ruining your interior. Discos have a lot of room too, but they are also very well done. My wife has a 2006 BMW and, while the Disco isn't quite as nice, the quality feels just as good. Nothing rattles and fit and finish are great. The plastic isn't quite as good as the BMW, but it is better than my Toyota. I don't think anyone spent a whole lot of time on ergonomics (what's up with the interior door handle placement on a Disco??), but what are you going to do.

Ultimately, it comes to this for me, there are only three vehicles that I can think of that feel like a luxury car on the highway and can keep up with Jeeps off road: Land Rovers, G-wagens, and LC's (who really uses G-Wagens off road anyway). I love LC's - I very much want one, but they are just a little big for me.
Besides, they are pretty reliable. Yes, they require more upkeep than pretty much anything else. But, if you do it, you will have a reliable luxury truck that can take on most trails bone stock. Bill Burke has a D90 over 150K as one of his guide trucks. He makes his living taking people into the backcountry and does it with a 150,000 mile Rover - they can't be that unreliable.

And don't even get my started on the LR3's. Yeah they are too complex, but they can outperform pretty much everything except maybe a Rubicon off road.

All that being said, I think it is a total person choice. I'm not saying LR is the best, but there certainly are good reasons they have such a loyal following in the off-road community.


Ow - writers cramp!

 

[Green96D1]

I think a lot of it is the romance and history. You are also buying a legacy when you buy a LR. But there are other reasons; Rovers are VERY capable out of the box. It's true the years the Disco's came without a CDL they were significantly hindered, but by in large they are pretty impressive. More than a couple of times I have reached the peak of a trail in my bone stock Disco and met up with people who were floored a stock truck was able to negotiate such terrain. Many times I have gone around lifted pickups and motorcycles were not able to compelete a difficult portion of trail only to motor up it with one hand on the wheel, a drink in the drink holder and climate control pumping out a steady 70 degrees - stock. You also get the articulation and ride of coil springs, something leaf springs can't really match without making compromises.
There is also the build of the vehicle. Look under one sometime. The only things I see that are built like a Rover are LC's and trains. Just the radius arms alone are impressive as is the factory guard behind the factory plastic airdam. I bounced my airdam off a tree stump buried in mud hard enough to lift my front end up. I honestly thought I was going to be bringing my bumper home on my roof rack. But, because LR over builds their products to such a high degree, there was only a couple light scratches to show for it. What other manufacture reinforces the plastic under the bumper so much that you can lift the vehicle by it (Wow, you're still reading this?!?) without destroying anything?
There is also a ton of small things like the air intake. It draws from in between the inner and outer front fender above the height of the headlight. The real fording depth of a Rover is very deep (as long as you keep your bow wake and don't stop). I've been able to reach out of my window and touch the water with a bow wave that continuiously crested my hood without any problems. Or those wonderful rain gutters that not only allow you to put obscene amounts of weight over your head, but also let you drive with the windows half open in all but the most severe rain storms.

Disco's also have a great wheelbase for off-road. I love Toyotas and all but Tacos, 4Runners, and LC just can't turn like a Disco. The short wheel base also gives you some help with your breakover angle. D110's are not as agile, but clearance is great regardless and the fact that they are bolted together, not welded makes them pretty much indestructable.

Space is a nice benifit too. My personal preferences is an SUV for off road. I like having everything inside and within reach. With a pickup you either have to leave your gear exposed in an open bed, or put a cap on and work around it when trying to retreive things at the front.

Finally, there is the interior. Rover's aren't fancy, but they are nice. D110's are all busniess. Well-built and very functional interiors with TONS of storage space that won't destroy all of your belongings with a harsh ride. Need to screw or bolt something into the interior? Easy - you don't have to start pulling pannels off and figure a way to mount something without ruining your interior. Discos have a lot of room too, but they are also very well done. My wife has a 2006 BMW and, while the Disco isn't quite as nice, the quality feels just as good. Nothing rattles and fit and finish are great. The plastic isn't quite as good as the BMW, but it is better than my Toyota. I don't think anyone spent a whole lot of time on ergonomics (what's up with the interior door handle placement on a Disco??), but what are you going to do.

Ultimately, it comes to this for me, there are only three vehicles that I can think of that feel like a luxury car on the highway and can keep up with Jeeps off road: Land Rovers, G-wagens, and LC's (who really uses G-Wagens off road anyway). I love LC's - I very much want one, but they are just a little big for me.
Besides, they are pretty reliable. Yes, they require more upkeep than pretty much anything else. But, if you do it, you will have a reliable luxury truck that can take on most trails bone stock. Bill Burke has a D90 over 150K as one of his guide trucks. He makes his living taking people into the backcountry and does it with a 150,000 mile Rover - they can't be that unreliable.

And don't even get my started on the LR3's. Yeah they are too complex, but they can outperform pretty much everything except maybe a Rubicon off road.

All that being said, I think it is a total person choice. I'm not saying LR is the best, but there certainly are good reasons they have such a loyal following in the off-road community.


Ow - writers cramp!

Barnone my Friend. I agree with you.

 

[overlander]

Beyond it's wonderful engineering (IMHO) of being extremely simple to maintain in the field, it's incredible off the shelf off road capability, or that it is one of the few current production vehicles simultaneously on the market in civilian mass markets as well as under military defense contracts for major countries, the simple fact is that a Defender is a vehicle of romance; pure and liquid in form, the kind that forms the beverage we choose to drink when we daydream. A Land Rover Defender or Series taps into a nerve that every other 4wd manufacturer wishes they could claim as their own (to include Land Rover in some of their more recent vehicles).

I still have a Jeep CJ I had since I was 16. I was an avid off roader and Jeeper, largely due to my patriotism, and attended several Jeep Jamborees in my day. So I feel objective when I say that I have not witnessed any other 4WD marque that has embraced and held onto the spirit of it's heritage better than Land Rover. The most recent Jeep ad campaign is starting for the first time in my memory to actually try to reconnect with their heritage (and about time), but I remember through the 80's and 90's, you would not hear or see anything about a Willie's or CJ if you went anywhere near the brand or a dealer. I haven't really seen anything about a connection to heritage in mass media from Toyota or any other Asian marques. Ford, Chevrolet wouldn't really have a dog in this fight that I can think of.

What we all as like minded folk, as well as the industries supporting us and our passion are about is romance; the romance of adventure and the discovery of the great unknown wherever it may be. For this, heritage becomes an essential ingredient to romance. It allows us to emotionally and spiritually connect with the great expeditions and adventurers of the past in a meaningful way.

If you want to make this an argument about practicality, try to make one about why any of us should ever dream or endeavor to go on adventure by 4wd at all. If facts and logic were the only things at play here, we would all have minivans...


:gunt: