What's my First Love going to be? Land Cruiser or Land Rover?

jknobler

Observer
I'm looking at getting something that balances low cost of ownership (barring gas), high capability, and cheap to purchase. Depending on what happens with jobs I'll be looking for something between 2K-10K in price. If it's a Jeep, or Toyota, or Mitsubishi, so be it. If it's capable and reliable I don't much care what it is.

I like to think about getting something crazy like a Defender, but I know they're impractical and expensive, so that was crossed out pretty quick. The Land Cruiser is still an option, but is currently lowest on the list. I'm thinking, as of now, a second or third gen 4runner, if I can find the right one. The Montero is also on the list, if I can find one in good condition. Jeep is there too. All these vehicles are in the same range, price wise. As for reliability and capability, well, the reviews are coming in mixed. I guess it all depend upon what I can find.

The bit about the tools makes me think that a 4runner is a good choice, considering I want to buy a Land Cruiser eventually.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
Yes, tools are expensive. Especially if you buy good ones. (most of my stuff is $nap-on and Matco $) Not to mention the materials to perform the work and if you know what you are doing because if you have to pay for labor that just doubles or triples what the parts will cost on average. The ability to do the "good" mods requires experience and some help at times. I'm still on the side of the 4runner. If you were in OZ or some place overseas, I would tell you that a Pajero(what a Montero is called in other countries) would be your best option. Unfortunately Mitsu never sold very many in the states due to it not being car-like enough for the average American. Aftermarket and certain parts can be a booger to get here if you do not have the proper resources. The general maintenance and repair stuff is available though.

Be sure that your initial investment is good, as you want to start with a good platform. Have someone with automotive experience look at it with you that doesn't have an emotional tie. What I mean by that is since this is your first ride you may get attached to something and you do not want that clouding your judgement. Always try to talk the person down. The asking price is just that, an asking.... Trust me, most people set the asking price in preparation for an offer that will be lower. Remember- there are several vehicles out there and more than one person is selling what you will decide to get. If a person is unwilling to meet you in the middle, just go elsewhere.

HTH and good luck :safari-rig:
 

pfran42

Observer
Look, I am trying to be helpfully but you stating $2-10k is like me saying that I am looking for a $20-100k vehicle. I would suggest you cut that range by at least $8500 or you are going to confuse everyone. You can can't make apples to apples comparisons on a $2-4k truck vs a $10k one. If you really are at such a wide spread, perhaps you should create a few different theads such as "best $2-4k", "best $4-6k" and so on. This thread is going to turn into a massive fail if you have people chiming in all over the place about completely different classes of vehicles. You'll end up more confused and it may very well have a negative impact on your purchasing decision.

Why don't you make a projection of how much you can realistically bank over the summer and set a range based off of that?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
 

scrubber3

Not really here
best value in the 4wd market for the type of stuff on this site is a Montero SR

In stock form-> Heck yes! 4,000 will get you a long way. I know of quite a few examples including mine. But I do my own wrenching as a lot of the Montero folk do or at least have friends that do.
 

kletzenklueffer

Adventurer
I've had an 86 4Runner, an 89 Cherokee, a 97 4Runner, an 82 Toyota 4x4 pick up and now a 93 Land Cruiser. See the theme?

Oh yeah a 77 CJ7 and a 72 Blazer, but the toyotas kept happening.

when I shopped for my 97 4Runner, I looked close at Cherokees and Grand Cherokees. I knew there had to be a reason they were half the price of the same year 4Runner. I found everyone was complaining about electrical issues and often were saying don't buy them, while the 4Runner owners were touting them.

All my Toyotas have performed great and reliably. If I were shopping today, I'd be looking for a 2000-2001 4Runne Limited with a rear locker, lower miles and interior that was still good. The 3.4L puts out good power and decent mileage if you keep the mods down.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
Look, I am trying to be helpfully but you stating $2-10k is like me saying that I am looking for a $20-100k vehicle. I would suggest you cut that range by at least $8500 or you are going to confuse everyone. You can can't make apples to apples comparisons on a $2-4k truck vs a $10k one. If you really are at such a wide spread, perhaps you should create a few different theads such as "best $2-4k", "best $4-6k" and so on. This thread is going to turn into a massive fail if you have people chiming in all over the place about completely different classes of vehicles. You'll end up more confused and it may very well have a negative impact on your purchasing decision.

Why don't you make a projection of how much you can realistically bank over the summer and set a range based off of that?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

Actually, all of the vehicle mentioned are in the exact same class. Even the lowly XJ....

I say CARRY ON
 

TwinCruiser

Observer
jknobler,

You sound like an intelligent young man...the clincher for me was your statement about your ex and your parents. Take it from one who has been there...women come and go but your parents are for life. Kudos for the choice you made.

I don't want to sound like a "nanny" but I'm very familiar with Orlando drivers....pass on the motorcycle.

I own an 80 and a 40.

Both great vehicles but as others posted...gas will kill your budget. Neither of mine are daily drivers.
The 40 is a great platform to work on due to its simplicity.
The 80 not so much.

Finding a factory locked 80 in FL is difficult...not too many around, trust me, I've looked.

Check out CL...search Daytona + St. Augustine...lots of Cruisers around there.

Now, the important thing is to stay in school/college.

Finding the right vehicle is secondary but I trust you'll make a good choice.

Best of luck and nice to see younger folks in this hobby.
 

pfran42

Observer
A Land Cruiser and a 4Runner are not in the same class. I was making a statement about the vehicles that the OP was considering (D90, LC, 4Runner, Cherokee, Montero, etc...).

With such a broad price range, you'd have LC guys vs Cherokee guys and that would be counter productive.

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scrubber3

Not really here
Sorry but I don't see how that is counter productive.... The kid has questions and is asking for advice/ opinions. As far as the class of these, they are all built for the same purpose and close to the same dimensions. For a 17 year old, I am sure he is not worried about the EPA classifications.
 

pfran42

Observer
Sorry but I don't see how that is counter productive.... The kid has questions and is asking for advice/ opinions. As far as the class of these, they are all built for the same purpose and close to the same dimensions. For a 17 year old, I am sure he is not worried about the EPA classifications.

I see your point and I also want this kid to get the best truck considering his circumstances. Given the price range and the models he has identified I think that this thread is likely to devolve as there are too many variables. It is my personal option that if he were to say "I can afford $X amount and I need reliability, economy and off-road capability in that order" (or something to that affect), the veterans of this forum could be better assist him in choosing a vehicle that best meets his needs.

With an $8K spread, starting at a low end and choices ranging from D90s to Jeep Cherokees I can see this turning into one of those "which tires are best?" threads where it is all but impossible to make sense out of any of it. The Land Cruiser advocate will say "this $10k rig will run forever only using two metric wrenches and get 12MPG while doing it", the Jeep champion will counter-point with "Buying a $2K rig leaves you a bunch of wiggle room for mods and repair costs while at the same time yielding me 16 MPGs".

By classes I meant size and purpose. For the record, the vehicles mentioned by the OP are not intended for the same purpose. For example, think about the similarities between the Sequoia and the Land Cruiser. They are similar in characteristics but they are unequivocally built for different purposes. That is why you don't see them being used by oil companies in say, Africa. The Sequoia was build to serve a specific American market need. The US market wanted a large luxurious mall cruiser at the same or a little bit larger size than the Land Cruiser. It also had to come in at a lower price point. A Land Cruiser is purpose-build to survive roughly 30 years with minimal maintenance. It is a vehicle of choice for news organizations, NATO, mining companies, militaries, terrorists, etc. It is build to a different standard than say a 4Runner or Cherokee. It gets (relatively) terrible gas milage but in exchange it can go to hell in back. A 4Runner and Cherokee are completely different types (what I meant by "class") of vehicles. Their MSRPs reflect this, Their sizing is much smaller, their fuel economy is greater and they statistically require more maintenance than a Land Cruiser. They will reach component failure points lower on the scale than a Land Cruiser.

If the OP would narrow his focus to say the 4Runner/Cherokee/Montero "class" then we could start having better dialogue about the +/-s of each respective model.

I mean no disrespect to you Scrubber, I just happen to think that if we can the 16 yr. old to narrow the very broad range of what he is looking for in a vehicle, we can better assist him with a decision that will best suit his needs.
 

NothingClever

Explorer
I don't see this thread "devolving" from a lack of something on the part of the OP.

I wish I had been half as focused and coherent as jknobler when I was his age. Let's not forget what it's like to be 17, folks. Perhaps my standards are low or out of touch but I think we should go a little easier and cut the young man some slack, especially given the inordinate amounts of attention other threads have received lately which SHOULD die given they have little to do with (ugh, I hate this word) "overlanding".

Drive on with your badself, jknobler....you're doing great.
 

pfran42

Observer
I'm not dissin' jknobler. I'm trying to focus the young man. And you are correct, he is miles above where I was at that age.
 

jknobler

Observer
I must say, I'm surprised that I generated so much talk.

I'll be honest. If I get lucky, and get the job I'm looking at, I'll be working for $10 an hour (on the lower end of the spectrum) for 15-16 hours a day, 6 days a week, 9 weeks straight. What will I be doing? Working as a prep cook in one of the best restaurants in town. I had my Junior internship there, and worked my *** off for three days. I feel like I proved myself to the Chef, and he liked me. I can legally work there, and it's just a matter of working out the kinks. If I'm lucky I'll make over $15 an hour, but I'm staying conservative here. So I'll make right around $9k, not counting what I'll make working weekends before my summer break. This will either fully cover the vehicle, be a good down payment, or cover the vehicle with a remainder left over to pay for tools and parts.

I am willing to compromise on gas, if it gets me a more reliable and capable car. I have no dependents, no girlfriend (which I'll get to here soon), and my "friends" (more like the people I associate with at school) never call me to do anything. This vehicle's main use (if it ends up as my DD) would be to and from school during the week, to work on Saturday, and every other weekend to my father's house. There would, of course, be the weekends I'd go with an old friend out to his hunting ranch, on the off chance I want to go to the beach there are a few around that I can drive on, so I'd throw some plywood up on the roof rack, secure it, and once at the beach I'd set up my chair up there, and I'd try and swing a trip out to Arizona or New Mexico for some Dessert action. I plan to use the "convenient red light" move to get people to pay me for gas ("It's either $5 now, or you get out here") if I drive them.

I would really enjoy having a Land Cruiser, even though I know they're a pig on gas. I've done my research, and there is, in fact, a reason that they are used in some of the harshest places in the world. They don't break down. End of story.
Well, of course they do, but it's fixable, and you can find parts basically anywhere in the world.

The Land Rover Defender was tossed out a long time ago. They're impracticable for someone my age. They're just as bad on gas, and they take the premium stuff. No thank you. Also there is preventative maintenance that is required, and I won't have the budget for that. They look cool though. Now keep i mind that I am 17, so I have plenty of time to own all of the aforementioned vehicles.

Next we get the Mitsubishi Montero. I really like the way they look, and I'm sure they're good 4x4's. But the lack of components and aftermarket parts is a factor that has to take it off the list. If I were better at doing my own stuff I'd pick one up in a heartbeat, because they look like they can tear up the trail, and come out just fine.

Now it's the XJ's turn. I'm getting mixed responses with this one. Some love it, others don't. I like the way it looks, and by my research (Yay Google!) they are the cheapest to purchase. This would allow me to upgrade everything from the axles and wheels to the radio. But it sounds as though the tools I'd buy for this wouldn't fit a Toyota.
I'm assuming that has something to do with metric v. imperial. (I've helped out in my neighbor's shop, and his house, and we'll talk about this sorta stuff)

Then we get the Toyota 4runner. I really like these. Kinda like a baby Land Cruiser (okay, maybe not really... but humor me). They should be pretty cheap to buy ($5-$6k), and the tools for it will (or should) fit a Cruiser. While the particular aftermarket parts may not, I can at least sell those off and make some money back. Tools look like they're coming in to be a deciding factor. I've also done my research here. Gen. 2 4runners seemed to have some issues with drive side collisions and rollovers. So Gen. 3 might be the ticket here.

So far, I find it the be a three horse race.
The Land Cruiser is still in here. I like it. I want one. This is my thread, and I am still 17. Fuel economy is a problem here, but not reliability and capability.
The 4runner is much like the Land Cruiser, but with better gas consumption. Capability might not be the same as in a Cruiser, but at the same time the Cruisers are world renowned for their abilities.
The XJ is cheap. It's easy to work on (so it seems). It has a lot of aftermarkets out there. It seems pretty reliable as well. It's fuel economy is pretty good (relative to the other two contenders). But it's lacking in capability, and I'd have to do a lot to bring it up to par with the other two. But I'd have the money to do so at an XJ price point.

Another factor that might seem unlikely, because it is, is the potential for my father to surprise me with a crappy front wheel drive car he picked up at the auction. Again, it;s unlikely, but a factor. Should this happen I'll go with the Cruiser. That's an end to that, should I get a '93 civic.

Now I'd like to thank all of you for the compliments on my maturity, I get that a lot when I'm talking with adults. I guess I just saw the way most of my peers were going, and just didn't like it.

As for my ex. Well, I loved her, and still do. She was my first love. Firsts of anything you don't forget. I'd take her back, if she'd understand and wanted me back, and didn't hate my guts. Her mother was psycho too. She was a great gal, and did a lot for me. She's missed, but not forgotten.

I hope this helps narrow stuff down for you guys.
 

roscoFJ73

Adventurer
I would get the jeep now and make the landcruiser your next vehicle. Drive the jeep ,break it,learn how to fix it.
When the landcruiser comes around you will know how to look after it and not make the mistakes you did with the jeep.
Owning the Jeep should give you a few extra dollars to live on. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Forget the daughter of the psycho. Half the population of the planet are women,one of them has got to be better than the last one.

You also have to choose which series landcruiser you eventually want to own.
http://www.brian894x4.com/FOREIGNTOYOTAMAINPAGE.html
 

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