Water purifying

Turtle59

Intrepid Wanderer
G'day blokes and blokettes,

I need some advice on water purification and what may be best in terms of options.

Here goes:- picture this... 1000 litres of onboard water tanks, the possible need to take on water from a river / dam / creek etc or from a source of unknown quality, anywhere in the world.

I'm thinking the water would need to be filtered from source into tank then probably again from tank to tap.

Here is where you come in... what specs would I need to look at in terms of filters or is something like a reverse osmosis system needed. Remembering this is our only source of drinking water etc.

Your words of wisdom would help greatly.
 
I'd suggest using separate containers for washing and drinking water. It would save you lots of time and money in the long run. For drinking water are you thinking of a pump filter or wanting something quicker? Katadyn, MSR has hiking water filters that are great for a couple of people to share. Either way you go I'd suggest getting the MIOX water purifier from MSR. It uses batteries, salt, and water to provide you with chlorine for killing viruses and bacteria. Good luck finding something that works right for you, and please share.
 

rsbones

New member
Simple filters to improve the look/smell of water to be used for all non drinking purposes and then you could set up a heat exchanger that would boil water that is sent to a holding tank for drinking purposes. Boiling is really the only sure method. One minute is all it takes. I've seen some really nice setups on here though so I bet you'll find lots of advice.
 

INSAYN

Adventurer
I came up with a filtering system for this summers kayak trip that worked so well, we actually prefer the water from it than our tap water at home. And we have good water from tap.

Here is what I used and how I went about it.

Picked up a Sawyer SP184 complete 4L Bag to Bag Water Purifier System. It boasts a 1 million gallon guarantee at .1 micron filtering.

SP184L__31865_zoom.jpg

So, I took an MSR 10L Dromlite bag to the river, and filled it in the faster moving area.

dromlite_bags.gif

Added 2 drops of household Clorox unscented bleach per liter, so 20 drops for the 10 liters.
Shake well and let sit at least 30 minutes.
If there is still a faint chlorine smell to the water, we are good to go.
If no chlorine is detectable, it needs a few more drops and and another 30 mins to do it's job. (Water would have a lot more critters to kill).
At this point the water was safe enough to drink right there, but with the above Sawyer filter, we can make it better.

I built an inline activated charcoal filter about 6" long, and 1" diameter. This was placed down stream of the gray 4 liter Sawyer bag.
Then the Sawyer filter, then the clean blue 4 liter bag.

Just hung the gray bag from a suitable branch, or elevated area to keep the charcoal filter vertical. The blue bag and .1 micro filter can lay flat on the ground.

Now just add the already chlorinated river water from the red bag to the gray bag. Water flows down through the charcoal filter, removing the chlorine, some metals, pesticides and such. Then to the .1 micron filter, where it the hollow fiber membrane removes particles, protozoa, and bacteria including Giardia, Salmonella and Cryptosporidia (which were already killed anyway with the bleach).

This all lands in the blue 4 liter bag with a reasonable flow rate.
We filled all our drinking water straight from the blue bag.
The bag has a nice built in spigot in the cap.
Awesome taste!!!

For extra potable water storage on the kayak we stored cleaned water in two of the 6L MSR Dromedary bags. These are some tough bags that can take a crazy beating. The water can get a harmless plastic after taste from these bags, so we only used them for dishes and personal hygiene. Per MSR this after taste is normal, and not unsafe by any means.

57056-7-8-9-1.jpg


The real beauty of this filter system is that gravity does all the work, no pumping a hand pump, and it can filter the water while other camp chores commence.
 

INSAYN

Adventurer
Boiling is a good way to kill the living critters in the water, but uses fuel and isn't readily cooled to drink immediately.
You only need to get the water up to boiling temp and you're good. All living critters die well before boiling.
Also, it isn't really economical for larger quantities of water if you are on the move.

Plain old bleach will kill these critters with just a few drops per liter.

Bacteria
Staphylococcus aureus (Staph.)
Salmonella choleraesuis
Pseudomonas aeruginosa
Streptococcus pyogenes (Strep.)
Escherichia coli O157:H7 (E. coli)
Shigella dysenteriae
Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)
Fungi
Trichophyton mentagrophytes (can cause Athlete’s Foot)
Candida albicans (a yeast)
Viruses
Rhinovirus Type 17 (a type of virus that can cause colds)
Influenza A (Flu virus)
Hepatitis A virus
Rotavirus
Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV)
HIV-1 (Human Immunodeficiency Virus)*
Herpes simplex Type 2
Rubella virus
Adenovirus Type 2
Cytomegalovirus


And a gallon of bleach will cover you for zillions of gallons of water.
 
D

Deleted member 48574

Guest
I can vouch for the MSR filters. I have a handheld one that screws onto a nalgene bottle. takes only a few seconds and we always have a few liters spare. I also believe MSR makes a gravity filtration system that works for larger groups.

Clean safe water is a necessity -- I never go on any trip without my filter.

Cheese cloth and boiling works but, it's work.

Another option that's gaining a lot of traction is UV light filtering. I believe CamelBak has a UV water bottle. That may be up-scalable for the amounts you are talking about, and is very quick provided you have a pre-filter for particulates.

Cheers
Craig
 

INSAYN

Adventurer
Although the UV filters work, they require batteries and then you're out of luck when those go kaput.
They also require the water to be filtered to clarity to work well.

A clean clear PET plastic container set in the sun can also work as a solar water purifier.
In about 6 hours of direct sun exposure, you can kill:

Bacteria – Escherichia coli
Bacteria – Vibrio cholera
Bacteria – Salmonella
Bacteria – Shigella flexneri
Bacteria – Campylobacter jejuni
Bacteria – Yersinia enterocolitica
Virus – Rotavirus
Parasites – Giardia
Parasites – Cryptosporidium (needs 10 hours exposure)
 

blackduck

Explorer
http://www.bestwaterfilters.com.au/

Turtle
check out the BEST range of water filters
its what i use to pump water up from all kinds of sources
its got all kinds of filtering medium and so far i havent died from anything so it must work
the provision of two seperate systems domestic and drinking is the way to go
with your domestic water you only have to filter the groublies out (things like dirt, dust, fish, plastic bags, and crocodiles) and can get by with a single pass of a decent filter
for drinking I use the BEST filter when filling and have a .5 micron with all the trimmings filter in the system
I can also re circ the water through the filter from my domestic tank if need be
 

biggoolies

Adventurer
Purification

Check out how Douglas Hackney put a purification system together www.hackneys.com/mitsu/ click on the left hand side project design docs and build up photos. You will see water systems overview. I figure this is the best system I have seen to date and I am going to copy it eventually. I am no expert though in water purification systems. By the way that is alot of water=heavy
 
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Turtle59

Intrepid Wanderer
Thanks for the replies so far folks. Keep them coming.

Travelling with wife and 3 children all girls puts certain demands upon a man that can only be muttered in certain circles... (around fires late at night, that sort of thing) The demand for water is obviously high on the agenda.

And as far as weight goes when ya plan 1000 ltrs of water and 1000 ltrs of diesel you need to use a truck that is capable of such feats of strength. 13ton GVM's just don't cut the mustard.
 

Edroid

New member
It is interesting how many different opinions there are regarding water storage.

Personally, I don't believe there is any way to keep a potable water storage tank completely sealed from the outside environment. It is the perfect environment for growing mold, mildew, bacteria, etc even if the water you put into the tank is 100 percent clean.

My approach to water:

First, pre-filter any water you put into the tank for sediment and solids. There are tons of inexpensive pre-filters available that fit on a hose.

Second, treat with chlorine in a dose of 3 to 6 ppm depending on the quality of the water. 1 teaspoon of Clorox per ten gallons is approximately 3 ppm.

Third, use a super high quality filter at the faucet for drinking water. I use a Seagull IV, which "removes viruses, bacteria and protozoa, PLUS many organic and inorganic chemcial and aesthetic contaminants at the highest "purification" micron level (0.4 microns absolute)". The water tastes absolutely great with no trace of chlorine.

The chemical treatment is extremely reliable. Clorox is available worldwide. The filter is more for aesthetics, but is also an extremely safe and effective treatment for water on its own.

The Wikipedia page on water purification is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification

As an aside, does anyone know of a chlorine tablet that is available in the USA? I found this product in Canada, but they will not ship to the USA:

http://globalhydration.myshopify.com/collections/all/products/aquatabs-rv-marine-kit
 
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gait

Explorer
same approach as Edroid,

avoid the obvious bad sources like garages in south east asia which recycle their water,

the active ingredient in Chlorox (never heard of or seen it but know about other brands) is sodium hypochlorite which provides the chlorine. With really dubious water I like to smell the chlorine in my water,

final 1 micron filter cartridge is carbon with silver when I can get them. Takes the chlorine out among lots of other things. Filters are wonderful collectors of things they filter out, the silver helps keep some growths in the filter down. Important to replace the filters regularly.

I'm also prepared for really sediment loaded water and carry some Alum for use as a flocculant. I prefer clear water but tannin stained river water is ok.
 

grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
Boiling the only method? I best not drink from the mains supply to my house then?!?!

My sock is a bona fide water filter, but you need something which filters down to a level to create safe drinking water. The level required to do this without chemicals is a filter membrane pore size of 0.2 microns absolute. Bigger than this can be safe, and may well give a better flow rate (and perhaps less regular cleaning), but will require chemicals too.

I filter what goes into the camper tank when (very rarely) needed with a 50 micron filter in the hoseline, and then dose with Katadyn Micropur Forte. The Micropur cost me about £60 for a tub with an approximately 3 year shelf life and 50,000 litre capacity. http://www.katadyn.com/en/katadyn-p...opur-micropur-forte/micropur-forte-mf-50000p/

Then I have a PreMac IWP with one tap just for drinking, everything else is just straight out of the tank. You should look for data like that below for whatever you buy, a quoted pore size, and that its been independantly tested. PreMac uses iodene in resin form for a lower and more accurate dose after a slighty larger filter pore size, followed by a carbon element to take the iodene (and other stuff) out again.

http://www.pre-mac.com/GWP_IWP.HTM

"Removal levels of:

Bacteria - greater than 99.9999%

Viruses - greater than 99.9%

Cysts - greater than 99.9%"

General Ecology's Seagull or Nature Pure are common in campers too, are much more compact than my one, but a smaller capacity per cartridge set, so maybe cost more per litre produced? The Seagull X6 has a similar capacity, and a lovely big flow rate but is a little pricey!

http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/

There are a few buts with all these however.

Ground water can have a high level of "epsom salts", giving you what appears to be an upset stomach. PreMac told me this sort of water could actually reduce the lifespan of their cartridges, and I can tell you from experience the filter will do nothing to reduce the effects!

Secondly, this filter type will not touch heavy metals, pesticides etc. The only thing I've ever read which suggested could slightly affect the metals aspect is a Brita filter, but these are useless in all other purifying respects.

And, if you put something in the tank that either gums up or taints the filtration itself you immediately need to replace them if they're not cleanable. So how many spare cartridges do you take?!

What I would like to know is if I had a reverse osmosis filter, since they're designed to also make sea water drinkable, would that do the same for mineral rich ground water? They are expensive, bulky, and need a relatively large amount of power, but might be a good choice depending where you're heading?

Katadyn has some good info, and filters on a smaller scale (camper back up and portable)

http://www.katadyn.com/usen/water-knowledge/

http://www.katadyn.com/fileadmin/user_upload/katadyn_products/Downloads/Water_Guide_EN.pdf

Lifesaver bottles and jerrycans seem to be a very good product. I bought the bottle unused from Ebay at a good price, but discovered once you start using it you have to keep then using it or change the carbon element. Continual use or on the shelf as a just in case perhaps. Simple, robust and no chemicals.

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/

Using bleach to purify seems to depend on fairly accurate dosing, though I've never tried myself. Liquid bleach loses its effectiveness from the day of manufacture especially if it gets hot (camper in the sun?)(http://www.clorox.com/blogs/dr-laundry/2007/08/07/bleach-shelf-life/ to use the brand mentioned as an example). In the UK and France at least bleach doesn't have either a manufacture date on it or accurately states the strength (usually just saying less than 5% chlorine for instance). Bleach tablets seem more stable. Milton tablets are also good, and according to them 1 tablet put into 100 litres of drinking quality water will keep it drinkable for a while. Chlorine will evaporate from the water over a few days if open to the air depending on temperature, so if you top up the tank two days later, how much residual chlorine is in the remaining tank contents? Even if you have an accurate level guage to know the water volume you're adding, the correct chlorine dose is still a guess? If you fill a 1000l tank once a fortnight how do you maintain the correct chlorine level in the meantime? You need a dip test similar (but different!) to those used in swimming pools perhaps? Its a better idea to filter before adding chemicals, as bigger particles can provide protection to harmful stuff from the chemical you're adding.

These two sites give bleach dosing for 5-6%, how do i apply that if the bleach just says less than 5% and was possibly made a few years ago? They show more chemicals are needed if unfiltered too, and don't even match in their dosing advice :(

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/EmergencyPreparednessandResponse/Factsheets/WaterPurification.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach

The silver ions in the Micropur Forte will do the same but for up to 6 months, and the camper level guage will tell you how many litres you wll be adding, so the dosing of that at least is straight forward. Stronger concentrations of bleach/Milton may taint any plastic water pipes and the camper tank itself making it nasty to drink from.

If you really want to carry 1000l of water then you will use most for showering? Gentle filtering of all of it, then a second stage into a drinking water only tank may be a good idea? That also gives you a nice reservoir if you have a plumbing or electrical problem denying you access to the big tank filtering method? We got stuck once with minimal water on board and a breakdown, so now have a Micropured 20l jerrycan that stays untouched.


One problem you may find is just filling such a big tank. Low water pressure in some places means it has occasionally taken nearly an hour to fill our 270l tank, which is not on if others are waiting. A fine filter before the big tank will slow things down considerably. How much water do the locals have? If they don't have enough for showering daily do you really want to take so much? One place in Morocco we stayed in had drinking water from a tap sometimes, or the epsom salts stuff we were trying to avoid putting in the tank at all. I didn't see why we couldn't fill our tank when they had running drinking water until I discovered the whole town shared one tanker whenever it turned up. So we then needed a fair amount of bottled, but it just had to rattle around on the floor inside. A second tank for drinking only would have been cool at that time to top up with the bottled.

You won't be able to filter finely at a high flow rate without an unusuallybigforacamper water pump and filter, so you could fill a bulk tank unfiltered at speed, then have finer filtration of everything at your leisure into a still fair size tank, from which you could then provide all your needs from unfiltered because you did it all last night or whenever?


More info http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto/gen_info/filters.html
 

Jeff Wanamog

Off Road Camper Guy
Wow, you have certainly done your homework.Very impressive.
The only thing I would like to add is about your comment about the Lifesaver filters.
They only need to stay wet. So once you have started using the filter, keep the bottle or Jerry can full.
I have the jerry can and I keep it full at all times.
Thanks for the ton of info. It is a good day when I lean something new.

Thanks.
Jeff
 

JRhetts

Adventurer
Thought I'd share the system I developed for our FUSO-FM-260 based rig. We have two interconnected potable water tanks totaling 105 gallons with a single fill. Because I have lived on private wells for the last 40 years, I find my body accommodates well to "reasonable" amounts of all sorts of bugs in my water. So I feel comfortable filling from just about any sort of source that at lest some other people are actively using. [Prolonged trips in Central and South America, Africa, Asia, and all over North America and Europe have only produced one diarrhea attack in all that time, which Cipro promptly squelched.]

My fixed plumbing inside the rig includes a pair of water filters in line with the cold water tap at the galley sink. This is where I get all my drinking water. The hot water tap at the galley and both taps at the internal and external showers are unfiltered. The first sequential filter is a standard 10" cartridge filter, in which I use a relatively high-flow carbon/particulate filter to remove chlorine and other unpleasant tastes and odors. The second sequential filter is a Seagull-IV. This is a microbiological purifier which traps bacteria, cysts and viruses, along with removing chemical and aesthetic contaminants including herbicides, pesticides, chlorine and foul tastes, odors and colors. It is rated at 0.1 micron [0.4 micron absolute.] I have used this filter on sailboats as well as my vehicle for many years and have been very pleased. I know that twice we inadvertently filled with contaminated water that was improperly labeled, and suffered no ill effects while others who drank it without benefit of our filtration became ill.

Over the past 8 years I rarely have added chlorine to the drinking water I have been able to find, though I do de-bug my tanks and plumbing if I have not been using the rig actively for a couple of months or more. Based on research I did, and a seemingly excellent article in Overland Journal a number of years ago, I use the following table to dose my tanks when I do it [probably way less chlorine than you may be accustomed to using, but this is what math and science say is needed to neutralized the organic load and not leave a whole lot of 'free' chlorine ions floating around for your body to ingest]:

Chlorine Dosage.jpg

However, sometimes I have needed to get water from a source I could not verify as being used [i.e., pre-tested] by other people. For example, this summer on a 3-month trip to the Yukon, including the North Canol Road, I had to fill several times from streams and lakes that I was sure could be fully contaminated with at the very least Giardia Lamblia. [Having had this once 40 yrs ago I absolutely did not want it again.] So I carry with me a pair of Doulton filters and an external 12v pump [the pump doubling as a wash pump to get inches of mud off the rig so that entry, exit, and view out the windows is not so messy] that I use in this type of situation to pre-filter the water going into my tanks. The first stage is a particulate/sediment filter, and the second stage is a Rio-2000 unit that gets just about anything that could be bothersome [pathogenic bacteria (E-coli, Cholera, Typhoid, Salmonella, Shigella, Klebsiella Terrigena), Cysts (Cryptosporidium, Giardia, etc.).] These are both high flow and field cleanable filters. Since I have a screen filter on the inlet to my pump, I have yet to see any discernible build up on either Doulton filter after several hundred gallons pumped from flowing streams and still lake waters. [i think I could if really necessary almost pump water out of a ditch, as long as no dead animal was floating in it.]

Here are a couple of pics of my equipment. The first is of the internal filter set up.

Internal Filters.jpg

The [open] locker door is located just behind the truck cab at the drivers-side front of the house. The height of the locker door is roughly chest high for me, so I have very easy visual and manual access to everything. The space itself is under and beside the galley area, just beneath and behind some drawers and our stove/oven.

1. is the 10" cartridge filter
2. is the Seagull-IV contaminant filter
1&2 Filter all the water at the cold tap at the galley sink; this allows all drinking, tooth brushing and cooking water to be filtered, but does not (unnecessarily) exhaust filter capacity on showers or washing boots, bodies and motorcycles with the external shower
3. is the pressure tank to prevent 'hammering' in the plumbing lines while pumping
4. is the external shower [no filtered water]
5. is the hot water tank
6. is the Esbar hydronic furnace for hot water and house heat when stationary [heat for both can be produced by the Fuso engine while traveling].
Directly above 6. is the cab-to-house pass-through.

As for the external filters and pump, picture 2 shows:

Ext Filters+Pump.jpg

1. the Anderson plug that delivers 12v from the truck batteries via a mate attached behind the front bumper to a female standard 3-way plug; this makes maintaining proper polarity literally foolproof
2. an ordinary extension cord, here 50' so the truck can be at some distance from the pump if the terrain dictates that; the pump delivers "pushed" water better than "sucked" water; any 12GA extension cord up to 50' can be used
3. male plug, waterproof switch and pressure-limited pump with screen pre-filter on inlet side; I chose a Jabsco 32605-0092 unit that delivers 4GPM at 60PSI; my filters can't pass more than that flow, and while a few more PSI might make washing more effective, it would require a much heavier gauge electric cord at any length
4. garden hose makes all connections to and from the pumps and filters; I use thin-wall RV hose for its potable water rating and easier coil-ability than 5/8" or 3/4" hose
5. Doulton sediment filter, connected to
6. Doulton Rio 2000 contaminant filter
7. wash wand which can be connected instead of filter; right angle helps get undercarriage and inside of wheels where largest amounts of mud accumulate; I also carry a brush head on an adjustable wand through which water flows to the brush head; this allows me to really clean widows and around doors so that they we don't constantly pick up mud as we do daily business; I think this brush does a better job of removing the residual film of dirt/mud than having more pressure

Items 1—4 easily fit in a plastic box that rides behind the front seat, meaning it is easy to access and deploy for washing after a muddy day [quite a few of those this summer in the Yukon]. The filters are stowed in my rear storage area; it takes little more than a minute to access them when needed.

Hope this offers some ideas you guys can use in doing your own.

John
 
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