Electrical related reference backup light - switch in cab,three ways in camper

Truefire

Truefire
I have a slide-in truck camper with a rear backup light that is mounted on the camper and operated from the cab of my pickup truck via a Radio Shack, single pole accessory switch rated for DC voltage. see pic below of exact type switch.
fyVMtP8A_zps2a657975.jpg


I have this switch fed from the truck battery. I do also have a set of three ways inside the camper that operate the light as well. The hot feed for this set of three ways is not fed from the truck battery but rather from the onboard camper battery. I can operate either the three way switches or the switch in the cab independently, there would never be a time when they both would be in the closed position at the same time. So in essence when the single pole switch in the cab is on, one of the three ways would be open thereby hindering any voltage from coming into contact with the hot feed from the other battery source. And vice versa with the three ways, the single pole in the cab would then be off.


My question is the following: I want to know what your thoughts are in regards to feeding the three way hot from the truck battery which would send back voltage down the switchleg to the switch inside the cab of the truck which has its hot contact fed from a different battery ( a different phase if you will)

Although, i know the switches would never be both operated simultaneously so as to engage two different battery sources through those contacts, i was wondering if you thought the contacts inside this cheap switch as shown above would be too close together although "Open", if the closeness of the open contacts would allow the voltage to jump this small gap and create some sort of fire hazard potential, from heat created from the potential difference of the two voltages?

backuplightingcircuitforcamperpicofcircuit.png


I understand this is not the ideal way to do it, I am trying to prevent having to go way over budget in the build by buying more and more stuff such as pin contacts, bases, etc'

hopefully my written explanation and the schematic is not too confusing.
Thanks, Chris
 

Truefire

Truefire
This set-up would be 'ok', There is a possibility the truckswitch were on, and the the 3ways positioned also on, you would have both batteries connected in parallel,
Connection in parallel would not really hurt anything, The truck would then try to charge the camper or vis-versa, depending what battery was lower,

But the bad sides of this set-up...
Were the camper dead and the truck fully charged for example possibly too much current could flow through your switch and wiring to melt stuff.
Or you could un-intentionally discharge the truck AND camper if you were using the lights for an extended time.


Yeah Verkstad, that was my main concern, that of the voltage from two different power sources possibly coming into contact with one another and melting the switch with the potential for fire hazard. I know this is not the Kosher way of doing things but I was trying to avoid having to run more wire, pull the dash again to route cables and such...you know...the 'whole aggravation issue' that goes along with that type of stuff. For me, having to work outside in the elements gaining wet knees off of wet grass is hugghh, aggravating.

I think it should work, i was just concerned about the close proximity of the contacts inside this 'economically priced' rocker switch as shown above. Concerned that the contacts would be so close when "open" that if for some reason the three-way switches were flipped and energized one opposing side of the contact, that the different voltages might decide to 'sizzle' across the void creating heat and melting. What do you think, or would 12vdc even do such a thing under 'no load' conditions. I am all too familiar with what 277/480 volts can do and even 120 volts for that matter, but then again they are entirely different families of voltage altogether. Plus most situations involve some form of a load during such mishaps.

perhaps i should not have even mentioned that, these voltage classes are in a league of their own...there is no comparison really. I have a lot of experience with ac voltage and what it can and has done to electrical parts, accessories, relays, switches, terminal strips....etc;...so my mind goes into those realms.

What are your thoughts about the close proximity of the internal contacts when "opened", if that occurrence of one voltage source on one contact and other source on the opposite contact did occur, which i will make sure that more than likely it would not? While 'open" do you think the voltage would sizzle across that small void? Those distance between those contacts when opened could potentially be as close as these two letters- (ll)

thanks, Chris

chris
 
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jeffjeeptj

Adventurer
How about a pair of diodes, 1 in each power circuit. perhaps near the lamp to minimize dis-assembly of the dash etc. That should stop the current flow in the wrong direction. a lot like a diode style battery separator.

If you really wanted to get fancy, the next time you are looking for a project, add two wires to the camper to truck plug (or an additional plug) and route supply and return to the truck switch, using the camper battery as power. I've added an Anderson connector to better charge the battery in my trailer when it is hooked up to the tow vehicle. It is just one more plug.


As you pointed out, 12V is a lot less "dangerous" than 120//208/277/460 but stuff will still melt and let the smoke out of the wires. Will start a fire too.
 

Truefire

Truefire
i would love to go the diodes route for now, they function like unidirectional plumbing check valves then..cool. I am an electrician, so I familiar with electrical work just not so in the electronics arena so would you mind expounding just a touch on sizing diodes appropriately for ampacity/voltage ratings? Also could you touch on the installation and how to know the proper orientation of the diode inline in the circuit.

thanks, chris
 

FAW3

Adventurer
I know this is a bit off from your proposed design...but offered as food for thought:

Our '95 Chev P/U has a standard wire harness and within the wire bundle at the rear bumper there are wires offering "constant on" and "back up on" voltage. Most trucks with a towing option have a common harness that likely offers these wires (as well as stop and turn signals) I have a camper top that I have a LED flood light mounted just inside the rear door window on a swivel. This is a left over from a motorcycle project...no brand name imprint. At the light I have a three way toggle switch...ON, ON with BACKUP LIGHTS, OFF. Since I remove the top at time for bulk loads...I use a snap on/off wire connector to disconnect the wiring...it was a left over trailer plug.

Anyway...standard switch position is ON with BACKUP LIGHTS: when backing up...the extra light directed out the window is nice. When hooking up a trailer, I manually turn ON, and swivel it down where light needed...very nice. When camping I use it on/off as needed...very nice too.

Being LED...there is minimal amps draw...so I avoid all the mess of worrying about a standard flood/spot drawing the battery down.

Anyway...something simple to consider....
 

Truefire

Truefire
DWH- thanks for the advise, exactly what i need. To answer your question my light draws 4.5 amps, a little too much i believe for that particular style. This light is chiming in around 4.5 amp draw on 12 VDC system. If i adhere to the 80% rule I suppose I need to bump up to the next size I suppose. Will be on the lookout

FAW3, thanks for your post, interesting. Yeah, this light is very similar and have already installed a 6 pin trailer receptacle in tubing where the truck's brake/run light housing mounts. I robbed two of the pins from this receptacle which I have used to run my circuit to the cab of my truck.

Chris
 

Arclight

SAR guy
I did away with all of the relays, diodes, etc and just built a little digital controller. This way, I can have one or more switches programmed to act any way I want.

For instance, I have 2 switches in my camper shell that will change the color or brightness of the LED lights, one up front that just turns it on/off, and a switch on the tailgate that turns it on for 10 minutes when opened. Check out:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/91893-New-Build-T100-SAR-and-expedition-rig/page2

I have the design online for free here, or you can PM me if you're interested in having one made.

http://www.accxproducts.com/wiki/index.php?title=Miscellaneous_Projects

Arclight
 

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