Which electric radiator fan?

[gm13]

Fit a genuine fan!

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Yes, would love to. I'm under no power gaining/saving illusions. Maybe you didn't catch it in the OP but the Disco engine/trans sits too far back in the bay. There is also the issue of the air filter housing. It's mounted in approximately the stock locale in relation to the bay but not the engine due to its rearward position. The viscous fan would hit it.


After installing the LR bar and a couple of Hellas last week. the restricted airflow got the infra red thermometer up to 193. The gauge still reading a tad below 3/4 though. Moved this project to priority.

Even if the electric fan failed and I didn't have a spare(foolish)I could pull the lights off the bar and probably be fine, outside of some grueling situations, it just doesn't run that hot.

 

[gm13]

Red90,
I saw on the link that Doug posted, you mentioned removing the shroud for intercooler performance. The pictures I saw of your install had the shroud modified but on. Did you go back and remove it?

 

[proper4wd]

gm13

For the record, it looks like your engine is in the standard 200Tdi position.

Have you ever seen a 2.5 diesel or 200Tdi fan shroud? Its like a circus tent, turned on its end.

 

[David Harris]

Fit a genuine fan!

I have a long record of being against electric fans (sounds like a broken record, really). I don't believe any of the performance and economy figures claimed by companies like Kenlowe - they measure energy consumption of an engine at high rpm with a fixed fan on a bench, ie with no airflow from vehicle movement. When do you think you'll be doing that with a vehicle? The reality is that at high rpm, with the fan turning fast, the vehicle will usually be moving fast too, so the airflow from the vehicle motion reduced the angle of attack on the fan blades to nil - it'll be windmilling, not driving. At idle, the power consumption from the fan is negligible - the fan is turning relatively slowly and the viscous clutch will be open.

Claims about energy saving are false. The energy to drive a fan still has to come from the fuel tank, whether it's electric or engine driven. But, with an electric fan, the energy has to change state to and from electrical energy and overcome the inherent losses associated with that, plus it has to overcome the friction of the bearings in the alternator and fan motor and the electrical resistance of the wiring, while an engine driven fan has no extra losses being driven by the water pump, which is already turning. Electric fans also run your battery down by being active after shutting the engine off.

The biggest factors are reliability and capacity. Electric fans are not that reliable and are puny by comparison to engine driven fans. Viscous fan clutches normally fail safe - they seize up so the fan will be driven even when it shouldn't, but if they fail open, then a cable tie works as a temporary repair and retains full cooling. An electric fan can only fail in one manner, and it could leave you stranded.

There is a good reason that electric fans are only fitted to transverse engined vehicles or cars with odd shaped engine bays - it's because they're crap. Every car made with an in-line engine has an engine driven fan. If there were any performance or fuel economy benefits to electric fans, that wouldn't be the case.

I'll second you on this. An engine driven fan is the best solution for most. However, a great advantage to electric is the ability to shut it off on water crossings. Also, they are useful when there isn't room to run a normal viscous fan.

 

[gm13]

gm13

For the record, it looks like your engine is in the standard 200Tdi position.

Have you ever seen a 2.5 diesel or 200Tdi fan shroud? Its like a circus tent, turned on its end.

Well no, I haven't compared mine to a factory installed Defender 200tdi. That's interesting. The guy who did the switch in the UK had told me it would sit about 3" further back than it would if it had the Defender trans, which supposedly was longer at the bell. All this time I thought I had a "special needs" 200Tdi. I didn't think the factory air filter mount(which I didn't have) would work either hence my arrangement.

 

[redneck44]

Yours looks further back than a 200TDi install but I didn't think it could go any further back, it's near to the bulkhead as it is.
On my 200tdi I ran it without any fan for quite some time, and even when I did fit one the fan only kicked in twice, in stationary traffic after a long run.
Gauge never went over half without the fan. Having a new radiator made big difference though.

 

[Red90]

Red90,
I saw on the link that Doug posted, you mentioned removing the shroud for intercooler performance. The pictures I saw of your install had the shroud modified but on. Did you go back and remove it?

There is a shroud for the fan that covers the radiator. The intercooler is not shrouded. The stock fan shroud goes over both the radiator and the intercooler but is poorly designed and restricts airflow through the intercooler.

 

[Red90]

On my 200tdi I ran it without any fan for quite some time, and even when I did fit one the fan only kicked in twice, in stationary traffic after a long run.
Gauge never went over half without the fan. Having a new radiator made big difference though.

You need the fan if you go off road. It is rare it is needed on the road. Off road it is needed all the time.

 

[Snagger]

If I had a penny for every time I heard someone saying that Tdis don't need fans!

I do realise in this case that it's merely a comment that when run temporarily without a fan, the engines coped, but on UK forums we see a lot of people recommending complete removal. It's incredible. The trip I did through the Alps was run by a professional company who lead trips through Morocco, Libya and Tunisia aswell, and they told me about a 90 which was regularly overheating in the Sahara. When they opened the bonnet, t took a few moments to register that it had no fan. When they pointed this out to the owner, he replied that Tdis don't need fans! Blinding!

 

[Snagger]

Yes, would love to. I'm under no power gaining/saving illusions. Maybe you didn't catch it in the OP but the Disco engine/trans sits too far back in the bay. There is also the issue of the air filter housing. It's mounted in approximately the stock locale in relation to the bay but not the engine due to its rearward position. The viscous fan would hit it.


After installing the LR bar and a couple of Hellas last week. the restricted airflow got the infra red thermometer up to 193. The gauge still reading a tad below 3/4 though. Moved this project to priority.

Even if the electric fan failed and I didn't have a spare(foolish)I could pull the lights off the bar and probably be fine, outside of some grueling situations, it just doesn't run that hot.

Ah, the same problem I had when I fit the Discovery 200Tdi in my 109 - the water pump is in a different place to that of the Defender version of the engine. I had to fit an electric fan for that reason too. Its diameter the full span of the radiator, but it can't do anything for the intercooler. No matter - I don't need the extra torque - it has plenty of performance for my needs as is.

I have a winch and lights on the bull bar, so I know what you mean about the reduced airflow through the rad. It's not much of a problem in reality - where you need the fans is in off roading or on long, slow hill climbs. My fan cuts in quite often on mountain climbs, but otherwise never cuts in at all.

As much as I hate electric fans, they're a lot better than none at all!

 

[Snagger]

IME, the viscous units always fail by not being able to lock up. The failure rate is very high. They are expensive as well. A spare electric motor is $20 for the fan I use and available in any town in North America.

Fair enough. My experience has been different from yours - I've only had one fail, and it failed seized. I have heard of open failures, as I said, but a couple of cable ties around the hub and blade roots locks the two parts together for a temporary repair. Like you said, though, the viscous hub can be expensive.

Someone else also made the point about being able to switch off an electric fan for wading. It's a good point, and one I have made when talking about their merits on older LRs because most of them were petrol, whereas very few modern LRs over here are - they're almost exclusively diesel. I forgot that the US still sees a lot of V8 LRs.

 

[DividingCreek]

Like John says in my experience the Taurus fan is far more robust that the Kenlowe,Spal,Flexlite's that I have had on other defenders. It moves way more cfm than any factory defender fan, or any of the aftermarket fans I have tried. Electric fans have been the only fans on many manufacturers vehicles for decades. My fan runs for short bursts only and that when stationary or moving slowly metropolitan traffic, far more efficient than any other setup I have tried.

 

[Snagger]

Like John says in my experience the Taurus fan is far more robust that the Kenlowe,Spal,Flexlite's that I have had on other defenders. It moves way more cfm than any factory defender fan, or any of the aftermarket fans I have tried. Electric fans have been the only fans on many manufacturers vehicles for decades. My fan runs for short bursts only and that when stationary or moving slowly metropolitan traffic, far more efficient than any other setup I have tried.

But usually only on vehicles with engine fits that preclude an electric fan. Engine driven fans will always be better in every respect than electric except for the ability to switch off an electric fan for wading. Your comment about efficiency is incorrect, too - electric fans are full on or off, they can't idle. So, they let the temperature creep up until it's approaching limits before cutting in, while engine fans keep everything nice and stable. Like I keep saying, power consumption by an idling engine fan is minimal, and at high rpm, you'll normally be at high speed, so the relative airflow will be causing the fan to windmill - it's only on bench tests where the high angle of attack of the fans at high rpm draw much energy. It's all marketing misrepresentation by the electric fan manufacturers. If electric fans were any good, premium brands like Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Merc, Roll, Bentley, Ferrari, Lotus and all the others would use them. They don't. If electric fans were efficient, 4wd manufacturers would use them. They don't. If they were reliable, construction and expedition biased vehicles would use them. They don't. @Nuff said.

 

[AndrewClarke]

A few years ago I scoured a junk yard and picked up an electric fan from a probably '97-'02 vintage GM V6 sedan. I fabricated a metal mount for it and it fits in there very nicely. If I'd known about the Taurus option at the time I might have tried that, as the two-speed option would be nice to have. I have the X-Eng temperature switch (which IIRC has two settings for a low/high fan). I have an on/off switch in the cab, as well as an audible warning buzzer that sounds when the fan is turned off. I have a blue light for "fan is running" and a red light for "fan is switched off". Other than my one "fan running" light burning out, I've had no problems with this setup.

I run the higher temp thermostat all year round, mostly because I lost the stock one. In the winter though, this lets my truck get up to speed sooner. Not having any fan running at all also means my engine stays warmer in the winter, which is what I want. Unless I'm working my engine at freeway speeds, in the winter I keep my radiator shroud closed all the way, and let my electric fan regulate my engine temperature.

I don't do any mountainous desert driving, so I can't say whether or not my system performs in extreme heat. In the sort of driving I do though, it's always had cooling capacity to spare. Plus, it makes me engine a lot easier to work on.

Oh yeah, it also has the dubious benefit of running with the engine off. If I shut down my truck and it's still hot, the fan will run until things cool down. I'm not sure that makes any difference in real life, but it makes me happy, so it's worth something!

 

[redneck44]

You need the fan if you go off road. It is rare it is needed on the road. Off road it is needed all the time.

I was off road during the same period. Not for long though, as there aren't many long off road trails in the U.K.

I'm not saying they are not needed, just that the cooling system on LR's is very capable if in good condition, one of the few things LR did get right with their vehicles.