Amsteel II
- Thread starter dzzz
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dzzz
™
Here's the lineup
1)Amsteel- 12 Strand Dyneema Samthane coated single braid
2)Amsteel Blue- 12 Strand SK75 Dyneema BLUE Samthane coated single braid. About 15-25% stronger that regular Amsteel. Weighs the same as Amsteel
3)Amsteel II- Same Amsteel rope, but now with a polyester cover to protect the strong "core" of the rope.
4)Amsteel II Coated- Same as Amsteel II, but with a Samthane coating
5)Amsteel II Plus- Polyester cover over a core of SK75 Dyneema
The II plus gives better strength to diameter performance, if that matters
1)Amsteel- 12 Strand Dyneema Samthane coated single braid
2)Amsteel Blue- 12 Strand SK75 Dyneema BLUE Samthane coated single braid. About 15-25% stronger that regular Amsteel. Weighs the same as Amsteel
3)Amsteel II- Same Amsteel rope, but now with a polyester cover to protect the strong "core" of the rope.
4)Amsteel II Coated- Same as Amsteel II, but with a Samthane coating
5)Amsteel II Plus- Polyester cover over a core of SK75 Dyneema
The II plus gives better strength to diameter performance, if that matters
michaelgroves
Explorer
Amsteel II is has a much lower breaking strength than Amsteel, which in turn is significantly weaker than Amsteel Blue. The II Plus is better than II, but still less than Amsteel, (and far below Amsteel Blue).
As far as I can see, the only Samson rope worth buying for winching is the Amsteel Blue (which is excellent).
dzzz
™
This is what I see as the problem.
"Stronger "at a given diameter or cost? If trying to maximize the amount of rope on a winch then strength per rope diameter matters. If diameter doesn't matter (much), then why use that metric?
Amsteel II plus is Amsteel Blue with a cover. So Amsteel Blue is stonger than Amsteel Blue with a cover?
The enviroment is what causes deterioration of a winch rope. That's why they put a cover on Amsteel and Amsteel Blue. To make a long-lasting winch rope.
michaelgroves
Explorer
3/8" Amsteel Blue has a breaking strength of 8000kg. The same diameter Amsteel II has a breaking strength of 3800kg, and Amsteel Plus 4700kg. So you lose more or less 50% of your strength, while gaining some protection - though I'm not sure quite how much (bearing in mind it's not a replaceable sleeve, it's an integral part of the rope). And for a given diameter, you're always working much closer to the rope's capacity, so there's not much room for deterioration. And you lose the ability to field-splice. And I bet it's not cheaper.
I do take your point about breaking strength not being the only meaningful metric, but a significantly weaker rope would have to be a LOT cheaper and/or MUCH more durable to be worthwhile. (My 7/16" Amsteel Blue doesn't see a lot of use - perhaps 10 occasions per year -, but it's lasted me 8 years so far...)
dzzz
™
It's hard to compare prices, but on a 100' rope it looks like it costs about $75 to get the polyester wrap.. That's on a 35,000lb rope. I would rather have the wrap than go up to a 45,000lb rope.
The risk of breaking is not from in spec use, but from an abrasion or cut. I'm also more comfortable putting the rope through a snatch block with the protection of a cover.
Edit: Actual $75 is too high. On a 600 ft roll maybe $25 per 100' premium
The risk of breaking is not from in spec use, but from an abrasion or cut. I'm also more comfortable putting the rope through a snatch block with the protection of a cover.
Edit: Actual $75 is too high. On a 600 ft roll maybe $25 per 100' premium
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dzzz
™
The quote I got on an amsteel II 3/4" 80' winch rope is $396. The out end is an eye with a blueline thimble.
What I have learned:
On the "fat" end are the Samson rope variants (Amsteel). The major upsides are low cost of the plain amsteels and the heavy poly covering on the two types of Amsteel II.
On the "skinny" end are plasma 12 ropes. With the superline HD having a thin nylon jacket (this is a guess). The major upside is small rope diameter - more rope on the winch and extensions taking up less room.
What I have learned:
On the "fat" end are the Samson rope variants (Amsteel). The major upsides are low cost of the plain amsteels and the heavy poly covering on the two types of Amsteel II.
On the "skinny" end are plasma 12 ropes. With the superline HD having a thin nylon jacket (this is a guess). The major upside is small rope diameter - more rope on the winch and extensions taking up less room.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
I would be a little concerned with a shielded line holding dirt/mud once it got past the outer sheath.
With regular amsteel 12-braid stuff you can pull the line off once a year and wash it out by opening up the braid a bit while holding it under water in a bucket. I know I have been pretty amazed at what comes out in the water on used lines.
I think its pretty hard to beat Amsteel or Amsteel blue in 3/8" on most recreational winches. That stuff seems to last forever unless you do something stupid. Once it gets the fuzz on it from some use it seems to hold up in the same condition for many years.
heat on the drum can be an issue...but not powering out long distances seems to help that a lot. You have to check and see if you winch has a brake that could drag...some may need to be adjusted. Take all the cable off the winch and power it in for a bit. Then take an infrared thermometer and check the drum temp. This will give you a good idea if the drum is going to get too hot. Most all winches get really hot on powering out vs powering in. If you don't want to worry about it some superwinch models and the good ol' warn 8274's don't have a brake on the inside of the drum.
With regular amsteel 12-braid stuff you can pull the line off once a year and wash it out by opening up the braid a bit while holding it under water in a bucket. I know I have been pretty amazed at what comes out in the water on used lines.
I think its pretty hard to beat Amsteel or Amsteel blue in 3/8" on most recreational winches. That stuff seems to last forever unless you do something stupid. Once it gets the fuzz on it from some use it seems to hold up in the same condition for many years.
heat on the drum can be an issue...but not powering out long distances seems to help that a lot. You have to check and see if you winch has a brake that could drag...some may need to be adjusted. Take all the cable off the winch and power it in for a bit. Then take an infrared thermometer and check the drum temp. This will give you a good idea if the drum is going to get too hot. Most all winches get really hot on powering out vs powering in. If you don't want to worry about it some superwinch models and the good ol' warn 8274's don't have a brake on the inside of the drum.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
If your running a warn it might be worth looking into. I think there hydraulic winches are designed off the same style as there electric winches...so that would include a brake in the drum barrel.
Most of the hydraulic winches I see have large external disc or drum brakes.
I don't know if you can get by with using just the deadhead pressure of a closed valve for the 'brake'. I think the internal pressure bypass on the motor wouldn't allow a hard like, it would lock pretty tight, but then if loaded up too much it might spool out.
I would check the assembly diagram for your winch to make sure. If it does you don't want to power it out with synthetic line...and you probably want to do a drag test on the brake when you have the cable off.
Its worth checking...it would be a total bummer to ruin you line or have it fail in a time of need.
Most of the hydraulic winches I see have large external disc or drum brakes.
I don't know if you can get by with using just the deadhead pressure of a closed valve for the 'brake'. I think the internal pressure bypass on the motor wouldn't allow a hard like, it would lock pretty tight, but then if loaded up too much it might spool out.
I would check the assembly diagram for your winch to make sure. If it does you don't want to power it out with synthetic line...and you probably want to do a drag test on the brake when you have the cable off.
Its worth checking...it would be a total bummer to ruin you line or have it fail in a time of need.
dzzz
™
A unimog. The truck has 3000psi/200 bar and ~20 gal/minute hydraulics that match the winch. With a shorter winch rope it will do a true 15-20K pound pull through the whole pull.
A smaller winch couldn't take advantage of the big boy hydraulics on the truck. I wouldn't buy the smaller warn hydraulic winch, however. I would buy a milemarker in the 100 pound class. (The 20 XL is 300 pounds).