(Another) Newb power question

T

TheEL

Observer
Hey all,

Just getting going on my van build out and would like to get the power situation dialed before I finalize everything so it has a good home.

I have very little knowledge about this stuff (electrical and mechanical) but have been learning along the way and so far everything Ive done to the van has been working out.

Power scare me a little b/c, you know, I dont want to get shocked. Seems like the "How to make a cheap isolated dual-battery setup for $50" is the best way to go. Looking to get an AGM battery b/c I would like to keep it inside (I think). Basic needs would be charging phone and ipad. maybe running an electric cooler down the road. Also looking for a setup that can run a heated blanket, possibly heated flooring.

Just trying to see what my options are and any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, whats everyone's thoughts about this arkpak product? http://www.arkportablepower.com/

Seems like a really easy way to go, albeit pricey.
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
12 volts is very unlikely to shock you (you can prove this by touching your fingers to both battery terminals). Big snaps, crackles, and pops might scare you if you let a battery cable short out to ground, but this is all because of current, not the voltage that is present (current can't harm you if there is not enough voltage... typically you need 30 or more volts before you can feel being electrocuted).

An AGM battery isn't a requirement to go inside (though some may tell you it is). What is needed is any "maintenance-free" type battery. This does include AGM, but also includes many flooded (wet) units too (a maintenance-free battery uses lead plates alloyed with calcium which nearly eliminates off-gassing of hydrogen, a non-toxic, though highly-flammable gas). Batteries to avoid are so-called "low-maintenance" flooded ones, which low-maintenance automotive types have declined greatly in number over the last two decades or so (these are ones that convert significant amounts of water to gas during use, and need to be replenished occasionally).

The $50 isolator setup is definitely a nice simple way to go. There are much more extravagant systems out there you can buy, but in the end, they do pretty much the same thing. Some say delaying the connection to the 2nd battery for a few moments after the engine starts is a good idea to keep a load off the alternator, but I don't see that it really matters myself (plus it introduces another failure point too, which I've seen plenty of threads here about "smart" systems that don't connect/disconnect when they should). Your alternator is designed to begin charging almost immediately, a less-than-fully-charged battery connecting to it before the engine is started should not present any issue (and also will not pull down a fully-charged starting battery during that brief moment before the engine starts).

I suppose it is possible to use an electric heated blanket (no personal experience), but I think you may be asking too much to heat a floor. Carpeting the floor I would think would greatly reduce (if not eliminate) any need to heat it.
Also, you mentioned an "electric cooler", if you mean an actual compressor-based fridge (Engel, Edgestar, ARB, Truckfridge, etc), no problem. An inexpensive thermoelectric cooler (Coleman, Koolatron, etc) would be a no-go though, those run constantly and can deplete a battery in about 4-6 hours.

No personal experience with the ArkPak, however there's been tons of discussion about it here. Shouldn't be difficult to find some discussions about it using the Search. I'm sure others will chime in here though.

Anyway, hopefully that gives you something to start with.
 
F

fike

Adventurer
A very simple solution it to use one of the GoalZero products that are standalone. You can plug them into a car power port (cigarette lighter) to charge or you can use solar panels. They have built-in usb charging, 12 volt power ports, laptop connections, and 110 V/AC inverters. They keep your power infrastructure flexible and modular which is nice for a low-cost system. I have a Yeti 150 that I have used for two years and really love. I had a battery isolator circuit installed on my power port (cigarette lighter) so that it can charge when the engine is off without worrying about draining my battery. I generally use it for charging my phone at night and plug in the Yeti during the day.

The Yeti 400 looks awesome too. Solar panel integration and lots of accessories make them pretty cool.

http://www.goalzero.com/
 
T

TheEL

Observer
Alright. Im getting ready to dive into building this out.

From my calculations I believe i'll be needing about 40Ah to run my fan, lights, heater (winter only), and phone/laptop charging.

Id like to set something up that allows for shore power to charge it as well as charging from alternator while driving.

If anyone out there can send some recommendations my way to help me get started it would be greatly appreciated!
 
Bbasso

Bbasso

Expedition goofball
you mentioned heater, what kind?

consider the BlueSeas ACR, I really like it and if you go with the 7622 model and have a large enough house battery you can jump start yourself if needed.
If your math is correct @ 40Ah, consider a solar system. you'll be able to charge that rather easily and cheaply too.
 
T

TheEL

Observer
I was looking at the propex HS2000.

I am considering solar for the future but for immediate needs id just like a shore power hookup and something to charge off the alternator when driving.

Forgive my ignorance but is the BlueSeas ACR different then a smart solenoid?
 
T

TheEL

Observer
DONT ASSUME ANYTHING.

I am very new to this. Where would the on/off circuits go?

The webasto/propex heaters have very low power consumption and I thought them to be a good choice.

No serious heart condition here. Just lack of knowledge. Ive read through a lot of this forum trying to wrap my head around it which has helped a ton. But still seems like a daunting task...
 
rayra

rayra

Expedition Leader
Read up on proper grounding.
Read up on proper wire / cable sizing for the electrical loads / usages you want and if you are nearing any limits bump up a wire size. Especially on the 'permanent infrastructure' side of things.

Above all, read the big '$50 Aux Battery' thread in this subforum, it is full of useful information and diagrams.

You want either cutoff switches or fusing as close to the power source(s) as practicable. Electrical overload or damage anywhere along your wiring is the chief danger, the fusing / cutoff nearest the power source helps protect you / your vehicle from most of the risk.
You want any battery terminals or exposed electrical connections to be safeguarded from accidental shorting / contact. Use caps, covers, 'liquid electrical tape', tape, etc.
You want to minimize or preclude any parasitic drains. Unplug or cut off any plug-in chargers , 'wall warts' etc when not in use.

There are a couple different layout strategies for the things you want to do. A solar charge controller / inverter would solve much of what you want to do. With it as the 'hub' of your design you could reduce the number of devices you need. Rather than a separate battery charger etc. Every inverter / power conversion in your design has an attendant overhead / loss of power.

Typically you'd want an auxiliary fuse panel to be accessible / serviceable and as near to the things it is powering, as practicable.

If you run both 12VDC and 110VAC lighting and devices, try to arrange things as two parallel systems rather than stacking / putting a bunch of random inverters in the chain.

Blue Sea stuff is good gear, but expensive. Do some comparison shopping. I've bought some, but where I could get equivalent gear cheaper, I did. But then again I'm not a 'buy once, cry once' guy, got too many hobbies / interests and not enough money to do that on everything.

Keep your main power cutoffs readily accessible, as well an appropriate fire extinguisher (or TWO).

Keep your install as neat as you can and SECURELY MOUNTED.

You're diagram seems fine for what you want. But if you are considering solar in the future, I again suggest a solar charge controller / inverter. Or laying out your design in a way which will suit one later, as you really could use one to its fullest. But it's a good bit more money up front. You could do everything you want in separate pieces / modules, as you go.
And there's another line of argument about 'single point of failure vs multiple points'. Can be argued both ways. With multiple devices you don't lose everything when one piece goes down.
 
T

TheEL

Observer
Hey all,

Heading on a road trip soon. Would like to get this battery situation sorted out before hand.

Seems like its recommended to buy two new batteries (one starter, one aux)

Anyone have any battery recommendations? Ive got some lights and a max fan that I mainly want to run. Might add the heater later. That is TBD.

Whats the simplest way to go about this. Really appreciate the help.
 
T

TheEL

Observer
Putting more thought into this I think solar is the way to go for me. I don't need much power. Currently (if my math is right) I think I would need about 20ah/day. I just want to run some LED lights at night and my MAXXFAN almost all day (for the dog).

Im looking into this solar setup:
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts...=1500497547&sr=8-3&keywords=solar+starter+kit

Im still pretty clueless as to which batteries to buy. From my readings on the internets it appears that 2x 6v golf cart batteries are the way to go. I would like to get AGMs since they will be inside the van with me and dont want to have to worry about off-gassing.

Just looking for some battery recommendations and any other tips you might think are useful.
 
M

MichelleKiwi

New member
Since your looking at putting the second battery outside the engine bay. I would suggest getting 2 fuses at putting them within 30cm(12inch) of each battery and connecting them to the + positive wire.

It protects the wiring if it starts rubbing against something and exposing the wire, or having a crash and again exposing the wire to frame.

If you are planning on self starting then the wiring should be no smaller than 21.1mm2(4awg) and the fuses around 200a. If you don't want to self start from the second battery then you could use 8.36mm2(8awg) and around 60a fuses
 
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