anyone SAS'd a 3500 gm diesel van EB?

[deserteagle56]

I hear what you're saying, Larry. I bought a 4x4 GMC van new back in 1976 and have been driving that thing ever since. I love it - but it is now worn out and beat to death.

I really wanted another GMC, this time with the Duramax (and an overdrive transmission and air conditioning and all those "modern" conveniences that my '76 doesn't have). But the price of the van plus the conversion was not cost effective for me so when the opportunity to get this almost-new Quigley Ford at an unbeatable price came up, I jumped on it. At my age I don't know how many more years I'll be driving so I may make the Ford last that long.

As I mentioned in one of my posts above, I had a long conversation with one of the principles at Salem-Kroger about converting a GMC Duramax. The guy told me they will do it but they prefer doing the Ford. 2 big reasons. He told me to get under a new Ford van and then a new GM van and see how much stouter the Ford frame is - and he was absolutely correct. So when they convert the GM van they have to add bracing to the frame. Otherwise, when the GM vans get in a bad twist - opposing rear and front wheels about off the ground - the GM frame flexes so much that the front bumper will actually contact and bend the area around the front fender. And that much misalignment does bad things to the drivetrain just when you don't need it.

The other major reason is - that GM does not make a solid axle to stick under the van. And no one who does any hardcore off-roading wants that GM independent suspension, with all those moving parts and aluminum diff housing, under their rigs. I couldn't begin to count how many articles I've read in the past few years of hardcore GM fans converting their pickups to a solid axle. So with the GM conversion you get a Ford front suspension and axle and that's always a bit more complicated. (The guy at Salem-Kroger told me they no longer do leaf springs, only coils, same as the new Super Duty Fords.) Whereas with converting a Ford, anytime you might need parts your local Ford dealer will most likely have it all in stock. In addition, if you're starting with a new vehicle the Ford warranty remains in effect (at least with the Quigley) on all Ford parts including the F-350 front end - and Quigley warranties all parts that are non-Ford.

 

[Larry]

Dave,

I am with you on that. No bling, bling wheels for me either. The van was listed in Florida.

DesertEagle,

I am not buying into what all Salem Kroger told you. For the 2003 model year the GM G-vans went through a pretty significant frame change to the latest hydroformed frame rail technology. The frame change paved the way for provisions to allow the Duramax diesel that would come along later in 2006 well as AWD option (yep, IFS…that we all hate. Makes for a good all weather van though). And yes, the GM hydroformed frames do appear “thinner” and may need addition bracing and brackets to bolt the 4x4 conversion brackets to but the overall psi yield strength is well above the old Ford frame that has been around for about 30 years. The current GM G-van frame is the strongest frame in a full size van yet. The early G-vans like your 1976 didn’t even have a frame. They were unibody right up until 1996. 1996 – 2002 the G-van frames were stamped similar to the C/K trucks at the time then in 2003 they got the hydroformed frame as I mentioned above.

The Ford frame and over all van body architecture is older than dirt which is one reason why upfitters like them….because they are cheap to build as tooling costs are down, which means more profit to the upfitter, and a cheaper purchase to the end user. Another reason the Ford became so popular is because of the diesel engine option. GM didn’t offer a diesel worth talking about until the Duramax came to be in the G-Vans in 2006.

What is boils down to is the upfitters have the Fords down a science being the chassis has been around for eons and they have evolved and perfected the 4x4 swap into that chassis. Will they ever embrace the G-van as much? Maybe, maybe not…as the Ford has already become the favorite of upfitters out of sure convenience. I know I would pay a premium to have a diesel GM van converted to 4x4 than settle on a Ford with an International diesel engine any day. Same with gas.

What someone (Quigley, Monroe, or Salem-Kroger) should do is think outside of the box and spend some time with CAD to incorporate the Dodge spec 4 link coil sprung 9.5 AAM front axle into the G-van. Now that would be cool and different. Some lift companies are already doing that with the Silverado platform on SFA conversions.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW the Rule of Thumb on brake vs. wheel size is 3" larger than the rotor's OD is the minimum wheel diameter.
HTH

 

[ujoint]

FWIW the Rule of Thumb on brake vs. wheel size is 3" larger than the rotor's OD is the minimum wheel diameter.
HTH

Not on my F550 brakes. The rotors are 14.5" diameter, and I have to run 20's to clear the calipers. (19.5's are the stock F550 wheel size) I think desired tire size is more of a factor, but there are always variables!!!

 

[ujoint]

Dave,

but the overall psi yield strength is well above the old Ford frame that has been around for about 30 years.

The Ford frame and over all van body architecture is older than dirt which is one reason why upfitters like them….because they are cheap to build as tooling costs are down, which means more profit to the upfitter, and a cheaper purchase to the end user. Another reason the Ford became so popular is because of the diesel engine option. GM didn’t offer a diesel worth talking about until the Duramax came to be in the G-Vans in 2006.

What someone (Quigley, Monroe, or Salem-Kroger) should do is think outside of the box and spend some time with CAD to incorporate the Dodge spec 4 link coil sprung 9.5 AAM front axle into the G-van. Now that would be cool and different. Some lift companies are already doing that with the Silverado platform on SFA conversions.

The current Ford E series frame has been basically the same since 92. That Dodge axle is OK, but there are several things that limit it's usefulness. Weak ball joints, full time 4wd, limited steering options as well as aftermarket support. The SAS kit for the HD Gm's that uses this axle is junk. I agree with you that companies prefer the Ford because it's easier, can't blame them for that. I don't have any experience with the GM's, so I can't comment on the frame strength. The GM truck frames are stout though....

 

[dave@chingadera]

Thanks everyone for your input. I saw that dynatrac has their Pro 80 that comes with the GM lug pattern 8 on 6.5. I don't have any experience with their parts anyone here used them?

http://www.dynatrac.com/products_dfgm_pro80hdfraa.html

 

[ujoint]

Dynatrac is the best in the business, I have their pro 60 housing in the front of my van. Talk to Steve down there if you decide to use them or get a quote. (Tell him I sent you) Are you thinking of a D80 up front? That's hardcore!!

 

[dave@chingadera]

Yah I'm thinking the D80 for the front, I'm hoping to build something bullet proof. I need something that can handle the desert like my old truck

 

[deserteagle56]

Dave,

strongest frame in a full size van yet. The early G-vans like your 1976 didn’t even have a frame. They were unibody right up until 1996. 1996 – 2002 the

Larry you are correct in that my old van is unibody construction. The downside of that - again, after driving that thing for 32 years, mostly on dirt roads and tracks - was that after ~ 10 years or so I had to have the mounting points for the spring hangers for the front axle reinforced because they were beginning to crack. (It has leaf springs, shackles at the rear.) And - with that "frame" firmly welded to the body of the van - I can hear all kinds of gear whine! The upside - it is a very rigid platform, with absolutely no flex no matter how convoluted the terrain so it's a good thing the axles have all kinds of travel to keep the wheels in contact with the dirt. It has worked well for me for all those years and I'm very happy I invested in it, so many years ago.

I'll have to side with Ujoint on the worth of the Dodge AAM axle. My pickup is a 2004.5 Cummins Ram Quad Cab so I spend a bit of time on the Dodge Cummins websites and yes, those guys are always complaining about the ball joints - and lack of lockers - and, worst of all, "death wobble" when they mount tires larger than stock. Also, there are all kinds of gear ratios, and limit-slips and lockers available for the Dana 60 axles but selection for the AAM axles is slim to none. I would really love to get a locker for the rear of the Ram - but try to find one! And if I want stout free-wheeling hubs I have to cough up a couple grand to Dynatrac.

Another point I'd like to make - the van offered for sale in your posting above appears to be a long wheelbase. That will limit the van's usefulness off-road, even with a pretty good lift and tall tires. I found that out very early after I got this Ram of mine - long bed Quad Cab. It takes 40 acres to turn something that long around and worse - you end up high-centered very easily. I've unexpectedly landed my Ram on the transfer case skid plate HARD a couple times now, cresting rises that my van(s) would have cleared easily. For that reason I would not recommend the GM long-wheelbase vans for off-road use. But the regular-wheelbase, with the Duramax, yes, that would have been nice - even if they won't give me the Allison with it!

 

[ujoint]

Yah I'm thinking the D80 for the front, I'm hoping to build something bullet proof. I need something that can handle the desert like my old truck

I like it!! Go big or go home!! I may get jealous if you start getting air though...

 

[dave@chingadera]

I like it!! Go big or go home!! I may get jealous if you start getting air though...

hahaha, I hope. I love your van, looks really good. :victory:

Another point I'd like to make - the van offered for sale in your posting above appears to be a long wheelbase. That will limit the van's usefulness off-road, even with a pretty good lift and tall tires. I found that out very early after I got this Ram of mine - long bed Quad Cab. It takes 40 acres to turn something that long around and worse - you end up high-centered very easily. I've unexpectedly landed my Ram on the transfer case skid plate HARD a couple times now, cresting rises that my van(s) would have cleared easily. For that reason I would not recommend the GM long-wheelbase vans for off-road use. But the regular-wheelbase, with the Duramax, yes, that would have been nice - even if they won't give me the Allison with it!

I completely agree about the wheelbase. Hopefully with good skids and a winch I shouldn't get in to too much trouble. What you posted also got me to thinking about the 4 wheel steering that gm offered in their suburbans for a while. hmm . . .