Battery Isolator jump start effect

maneumann0101

New member
Hi there, I am trying to proof out my battery isolator system in my van. If I was to jump start someone, the draw from their vehicle will effect both of my starting and auxiliary battery correct? If so, do I need to take this into account when wiring my isolator? Currently it uses 4awg wire. I have not seen this subject discussed yet.
 

llamalander

Well-known member
If you plan on joining two batteries together, you should probably fuse both ends of the connecting cable (which the isolator sits somewhere in the middle of)--if both ends have power, both can short.
That being the case, disconnect one battery when you want to jump someone else, reconnect once you're done.
 

RDinNHand AZ

Active member
Most battery isolators have a terminal to ground for their control circuit. Put a small switch in that line and switch it off to keep the battery isolated during jump starting. 4AGW is not large enough to jumpstart an engine. You do have both ends of that 4AGW fused at about 100 amps don’t you? You need to!
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Cranking can pull hundreds of amps, if everything is robust enough getting House and Starter combined for the job can be helpful.

But the combiner / VSR / ACR / isolator is usually designed to keep House out of the circuit unless a charge source is active, you need one as I recommended that has a jumpstart function built in

or bypass it with jumper cables.

A healthy engine needing less than a second can get away with much thinner gauges

than a painful situation where you try to go on and on, for say five seconds at a time or even more

which of course puts a lot more strain on not just the batts but all the wiring / infrastructure in between.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Cranking can pull hundreds of amps, if everything is robust enough getting House and Starter combined for the job can be helpful.
Yeah, that's part of what depends.

The starter on a 1GR-FE V6 Tacoma, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser is rated 1.4 kW and pulls around 125 amps worst case. The factory only uses something around a 6 AWG in the starter harness and gives people with stick shifts the option to bypass the clutch and start the truck in gear, which is a much worse case than just cranking the engine since you're literally driving the truck with the starter.

Compare that to a 8k lbs winch, which has a motor rated at more than twice and almost 3x that and those are delivered with harnesses with 2 AWG cable.

For a light duty truck or passenger car 4 AWG is completely adequate. I can let my 1GR-FE idle and still jump start most other passenger vehicles and voltage doesn't drop much. My alternator is rated 140 amps but at idle it's of course probably only doing half of that, so the reality is it's only taking maybe ~100 amps to actually start the engine.

Even the cheap 6 AWG Walmart specials are going to work fine for that (assuming continuous cranking, it'll take a 6 AWG cable 121 seconds to rise from 40°C ambient to 105°C with 125 amps), at least until you get into full size or commercial class trucks with diesels.

My point is whether 4 AWG is sufficient or not requires asking what's doing the jumping and what's being jumped.

All we know is it's "a van" and he's only asking about jumping starting someone else. Does he mean jumping a motorcycle he's carrying? Or the FMTV his traveling partner has? Does the van have dual 200 amp alternators on a diesel or just the stock single 150A on a base V8? Heck, who knows, maybe it's a mini van with a 4.3L V6 with an even smaller alternator.

If the argument is to minimize voltage drop, that's fine but a different criteria from strictly safety. I've upgraded all the starting and heavy charging cables in my truck to 1 AWG for that reason. Thick oil in the winter with a depressed battery, sure, you want to reduce losses where you can and heavy cables aren't going to hurt. The current the starter draws isn't going to be any greater than it's rating, though.

But I'd suggest that you may not even want large jumper cables to the point that voltage drop is very small. The dead battery won't draw significant current until the voltage on it exceeds roughly 13.5V (give or take). So if you have 15' (30 feet loop) 4 AWG jumper cables with your truck at idle of perhaps 14.6V the voltage drop at 125 amps is around 2V so the dead battery is only going to trickle and not add much load. You just need to make sure the dead battery end stays above about 10 or 11 volts at whatever current the starter requires to work.

If you make 1/0 AWG jumper cables then your charging system could start to really work along with trying to supply current to crank. The 30 foot loop drop for 0 AWG is about 0.75V at 125 amps so the dead battery is still seeing on the order of 13.8V with the source end at 14.6V and then it will draw whatever current you can source along with the load of the starter. Then you need to idle up or you risk significantly drawing down your own battery if you have to crank a lot.

Since he's concerned with his dual battery wiring, that's where you find the weak links, too, so sizing of all your wiring and fusing becomes critical. Or at least knowing to manually disconnect the undersized parts of the harness to protect them.
 
Last edited:

maneumann0101

New member
Thanks everyone for the replies. I can give a little more info to fully explain my situation:

I have a Chevy express 1500 van with a small (75ah) aux battery. The battery is charged from an isolator. The isolator is connected to the main power terminal on my interior fuse box. I got into a discussion with a couple of members on an express group about whether or not this was an ok set up. They were saying I would overload the cable leading to the fuse box, I said I wouldn’t because the isolator is not pulling a current, just allowing what is there to pass through. Now this conversation made me realize that if I did jump somebody I would have a large current go through that wire which could potentially overload it (bad). I also have 2 fuses on either end of the isolator. They are 200A fuses. I may change those down to 150 since that’s a little overkill.

so now I am trying to figure out what to do and am questioning my whole system. The options I am weighing out are:
1) add a switch to cut the connection to the isolator that i could use when jumping.
2) re-wire the isolator to my starter battery directly. This is where I am wondering if 4awg wire is enough. From what I am calculating it should be even though it is a long run (20-30’).
 

john61ct

Adventurer
The term "isolator" here is overloaded.

Is this like the old school IGN solenoids, than closes the circuit between Starter and House

only when the engine is running

IOW alternator is the only shared charge source?

Or is it a like a combiner (VSR/ACR) that closes the circuit between Starter and House

whenever high voltage shows a source goes active

any source, usually on either circuit, dual-sense

allowing solar, AC charger etc to charge both House and Starter.

The BSS ACR I reco'd is the latter type, and in a jumpstart scenario has a manual switch to override the above default behaviour and combine the energy of both House and Starter to allow for greater cranking power.

Of course when jumpstarting another vehicle, having your alternator's output also added to the mix is helpful.

Note even if jumpstarting say a big diesel, maybe mfg ratings say "only" pulling 250A that might be measuring for a long period like one full second.

Within that period, there may well be transient peaks of 600A or more, that a normal ammeter would not even be able to measure accurately.

Thus the advantage of an ACR with an explicitly high ampacity tolerance like the BSS ACR I reco'd.

With all these variables, it is difficult to specify AWG thicknesses with any accuracy, but of course no harm in going bigger.

In a rough real-world test, just get a cheap infrared temp gun, or use your hand on insulated components

to see just how hot they get. If only warm to the touch, should be fine.
 

maneumann0101

New member
The term "isolator" here is overloaded.

Is this like the old school IGN solenoids, than closes the circuit between Starter and House

only when the engine is running

IOW alternator is the only shared charge source?

Or is it a like a combiner (VSR/ACR) that closes the circuit between Starter and House

whenever high voltage shows a source goes active

any source, usually on either circuit, dual-sense

allowing solar, AC charger etc to charge both House and Starter.

The BSS ACR I reco'd is the latter type, and in a jumpstart scenario has a manual switch to override the above default behaviour and combine the energy of both House and Starter to allow for greater cranking power.

Of course when jumpstarting another vehicle, having your alternator's output also added to the mix is helpful.

Note even if jumpstarting say a big diesel, maybe mfg ratings say "only" pulling 250A that might be measuring for a long period like one full second.

Within that period, there may well be transient peaks of 600A or more, that a normal ammeter would not even be able to measure accurately.

Thus the advantage of an ACR with an explicitly high ampacity tolerance like the BSS ACR I reco'd.

With all these variables, it is difficult to specify AWG thicknesses with any accuracy, but of course no harm in going bigger.

In a rough real-world test, just get a cheap infrared temp gun, or use your hand on insulated components

to see just how hot they get. If only warm to the touch, should be fine.
It is a smart isolator, so it closes the circuit when the voltage is over 13.1v and opens it when it is below 12.8v
 

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