Calling all Gen3 owners - Need some info

[EyeInTheSky]

I'm still working on my parasitic drain issue. Problem detailed here:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...n-3-Budget-Build-Thread?p=2194791#post2194791

I had my alternator rebuilt since it failed everything when it was bench tested at both AutoZone and Oreilly's. Local shop replaced the regulator, diodes, brushes...pretty much everything. I saw a 1.6amp draw before, but now it's down. The problem is that it's still high.

When I pull the negative terminal off and connect my multimeter I get approx. 0.35-0.45a, and after about 10-15 seconds it goes down and holds steady at 0.18. From what I'm seeing, that's way too high. It's not the battery (new yellow top put in today), and I think it's safe to rule out the alternator. No other changes to the electrical system anywhere.

Fuse 18 seems to be my culprit but there are a lot of devices on that circuit.

Could one (or more) of you test your Gen3 and let me know what your resting drain is so I can at least have a target?

Also any suggestions on tracking down some of the devices on that circuit? Specifically the ones that say "ECU," since I only know about the one in the engine compartment fuse box.

A/C-ECU
cargo space light X
clock X (If the clock is contained within the RV Meter)
column switch
combination meter
dome light X
ETACS-ECU
front door light X
front-ECU
key reminder switch
motor antenna-ECU
radio and CD player X
rear door light X
rear personal light X
RV meter X
side step light-ECU - Not sure on this. I pulled the bulb on the bottom of the driver's door out completely and no change. Not sure what the "ECU" in here is.
steering wheel sensor
sunroof motor assembly
theft-alarm indicator light
transfer-ECU
vanity mirror light - Checked these by opening visors slightly. Lights were off until I hit the trigger point.

 

[coffeegoat]

I'll try to get this checked today

 

[coffeegoat]

I was thinking about the issue had had a thought for you - this wasn't an issue before you went mudding right? And you mentioned cleaning out a ton of mud/crap afterwards and your alternator problems started about the same time. I'm curious if you just have a wet connector somewhere. The leakage in the alternator was higher, but still well within the range of the conductivity of dirty water/mud, and the fix basically just removed that specific current path (the shorting could have damaged other stuff in the alternator as well). Most of the stuff on your fuse 18 list is inside the vehicle and it seems weird that it would randomly stop working - but the stuff on the outside could easily have bad connector that leaked dirty water onto the contacts.

So for example, the side step light, I think you mentioned you pulled the bulb and it didn't help, but if the back side of the fixture, or another connector in the circuit was wet it wouldn't matter if the bulb was in the socket for the leakage to occur. It also explains the intermittent nature of the issue, if you wiggle the right wire/connector you can make the leakage better/worse.

Anyways, I know that doesn't help because "find a wet connector" is about the most general advice possible, but maybe it could steer you in the right direction.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I was thinking about the issue had had a thought for you - this wasn't an issue before you went mudding right? And you mentioned cleaning out a ton of mud/crap afterwards and your alternator problems started about the same time. I'm curious if you just have a wet connector somewhere. The leakage in the alternator was higher, but still well within the range of the conductivity of dirty water/mud, and the fix basically just removed that specific current path (the shorting could have damaged other stuff in the alternator as well). Most of the stuff on your fuse 18 list is inside the vehicle and it seems weird that it would randomly stop working - but the stuff on the outside could easily have bad connector that leaked dirty water onto the contacts.

So for example, the side step light, I think you mentioned you pulled the bulb and it didn't help, but if the back side of the fixture, or another connector in the circuit was wet it wouldn't matter if the bulb was in the socket for the leakage to occur. It also explains the intermittent nature of the issue, if you wiggle the right wire/connector you can make the leakage better/worse.

Anyways, I know that doesn't help because "find a wet connector" is about the most general advice possible, but maybe it could steer you in the right direction.

Thanks for the tip. It did start afterwards, but more than a week after. The only other thing that happened (and I'm grasping at straws here) is that my wife drove it to work and paid a service her company contracts with to wash it. They take it somewhere offsite and I don't know what they do specfically. Maybe they stuck a pressure washer underneath it and blew water into a connector and my alternator?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

$@%$#%@$#%@$^%!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm dropping the hearts and minds approach and am pivoting to Shock and Awe.

I pulled the center of my dashboard apart and disconnected everything there. Radio, AC controls, RV meter, etc etc.

Same draw. 0.18A

Going to start disconnecting things on the steering column next.

Afterward, 9mm FMJ rounds into the electrical system until the draw stops. Or would hollow points be a better idea? More surface area to possibly catch these gremlins.

 

[Inyo_man]

Since you're grasping at straws...

Years ago, while adventuring in Central America in my old '80 Toyota p/u, I had a similar issue.

After pulling the alternator and rebuilding it, the electrical drain continued.
I finally found a crack in one of the bolts that secure the alternator!
It wasn't large enough to notice at first, but after replacing it...problem solved.

Good Luck

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Since you're grasping at straws...

Years ago, while adventuring in Central America in my old '80 Toyota p/u, I had a similar issue.

After pulling the alternator and rebuilding it, the electrical drain continued.
I finally found a crack in one of the bolts that secure the alternator!
It wasn't large enough to notice at first, but after replacing it...problem solved.

Good Luck

What a weird issue! How would a cracked bolt do that?

Still working on tracking down more of the components. Going to roll underneath it and check for any wires and or connectors making their way toward the cabin that need attention. Going on a trip Saturday/Sunday so if I can't get this squared away by tomorrow night I'm packing my spare battery.

Also, I'm thinking that this is some sort of "smart" component, not a "dumb" one like a light. When I pull the battery cable and test it, the draw sits at 0.4a for 10 seconds, then goes down to .18a. Maybe some sort of "wake up" function kicks in? I've tried letting it sit for 30+ minutes, then connecting my leads before I disconnect the terminal. That keeps it at .18a upon disconnection (most of the time. A few times my hand slipped and it went up to .4a).

I wish I had a data-logging volt meter so I could check to see if the drain is consistent overnight. Considering rigging up a ghetto one with a CCTV system I have and reviewing video of the multimeter display in the morning.

I contacted the dealership and they want $110 just to bring it in. I was thinking they might have a scan tool that could tell if modules are awake. I've already spent over $350 on this problem and am trying not to spend any more if I can help it.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Back to square one. I heard that some drains were caused by bad fuses, so I hooked up my multimeter and pulled fuse 18 to switch it. The draw stayed the same. I have to be at work soon so I will have to pursue this later. Going to start with the 100 and 120a bolt in fuses first and see where that gets me. Attention to detail seems to have been lacking... ffffffff

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I spent some more time on this during my lunch break. Riddle me this: why would my multimeter show a draw with the positive terminal completely removed? I'm grabbing my other meter to see if the one at home is losing its mind. I know I'm losing mine over this issue.

 

[coffeegoat]

Ok, I got the numbers on my rig, 200 mA on initial connection, after 15-20 seconds it drops to less than 10mA.

For reference it was snowing at the time, don't know if that matters, seems like it shouldn't.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Ok, I got the numbers on my rig, 200 mA on initial connection, after 15-20 seconds it drops to less than 10mA.

For reference it was snowing at the time, don't know if that matters, seems like it shouldn't.

Thanks for checking on that for me.

I grabbed my other multi meter from work to see if that made a difference. The drain with the positive cable disconnected didn't register, so that gremlin might live inside the multimeter.

I went back out tonight and started pulling fuses. The only fuse in the engine compartment that changed anything was the 120A, identified as Fusible Link 1 in the FSM. When I pulled it my draw went to nearly zero, though it wouldn't hold steady there. It bounced around some, but I might be able to blame that on the multimeter and/or my hands.

I pulled the fusible link completely off the positive terminal, no response.

I pulled the ECU, and all fuses and relays in the engine compartment fuse box. No change.

My draw is sitting at .4a briefly, then it goes down to .19a.

I have a later shift tomorrow so I'm going to roll underneath and try disconnecting the alternator.

Could this be caused by a bad ground somewhere?

I'm losing my mind over this. It's stressing me out disproportionately to its actual effect on my life.

 

[Inyo_man]

What a weird issue! How would a cracked bolt do that?

Not quite sure, but it seemed to an issue with grounding the alternator...

Good Luck

 

[Michael Brown]

Gen 3 Monteros also have an active security system that activates and runs once the doors are locked and shut. I think it is about 30-60seconds after the lights go out, that it begins monitoring for theft alerts. It is noticeable by a little blinking red light on the dash by one of its sensors.

IIRC the average draw for most cars is .4-.8 while the ECU shuts down, and .1-.2 to run just the LED light indicating the active alarm. I can check my current, but I am not sure if my 3.8L system would have the same draw as the 3.5L.

Not sure if this is the current draw that you are looking for, but it should be noted that it is there when the vehicle is shut off.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Gen 3 Monteros also have an active security system that activates and runs once the doors are locked and shut. I think it is about 30-60seconds after the lights go out, that it begins monitoring for theft alerts. It is noticeable by a little blinking red light on the dash by one of its sensors.

IIRC the average draw for most cars is .4-.8 while the ECU shuts down, and .1-.2 to run just the LED light indicating the active alarm. I can check my current, but I am not sure if my 3.8L system would have the same draw as the 3.5L.

Not sure if this is the current draw that you are looking for, but it should be noted that it is there when the vehicle is shut off.

What I've been reading says that anything over 50ma (so .05a) is cause for concern. I'm thinking that the initial draw of .4a is some sort of system shutting down. It would be nice to have that MUT scan tool the FSM references so often; I think it would make this go more quickly. Too bad they're over $500. :-/ I wonder if someone has hacked something together with a laptop and WireShark or something similar? That might be an interesting project down the line.

I have three more fuses in the passenger compartment tied to Fusible Link 1, so I'll be pulling those in a bit (need more coffee first).

 

[EyeInTheSky]

A possible breakthrough

Pulling the interior fuses on Fusible Link 1 didn't do anything. I decided to get underneath and unhook my NEWLY REBUILT FOR $175 alternator. When I reconnected my positive terminal draw was .25a, then dropped down to .01a.

I took Inyo_Man's advice and cleaned up the bolt connections to make sure it wasn't a bad ground. Some wire wheeling and re-installed it. Still drawing .2a. I checked continuity from the alternator case to multiple ground points. All showed 1-5 on my meter (good ground).

I pulled my alternator and am going to go have it bench tested to see if the shop messed up something.

FYI the draw is off the main power cable for the alternator. The smaller cable (solenoid?) doesn't affect the .2a drain.

My only concern is that by disconnecting the alternator I actually disconnected something farther up the chain. I don't believe there would be anything upstream from there, though as far as how good of an automotive electrician I am, well, I'm a good rough carpenter.