can anyone tell me what it will take to get 35s under there?

[sniderexciderr]

so i had dreams of a lift and big terrain eating tires in my head, but i dont think that is going to work for me at this time. i am stationed in europe and a friend was telling me that they would not ship his vehicle because it was too big. i have an 01 ford expedition so it's already big so if i go up much it will cause problems when i come back state side. if i was to crank the torsion bars up and use a spring spacer in the rear could i get 35's under there? will the torsion bars give me two or more inches? i'm not worried about front bumper rub, i plan on making a new one. has anyone successfully done something like that on a 97-02 expedition or f150? or does anyone know of a mild lift that could be taken out somewhat easily for when i need to ship my expo back?

 

[jeepdreamer]

Please don't...

Don't crank up the torsion bars please. You will hate the ride as it will be rough and you have just induced way to much stress in an effort to gain a little lift. Imagine what happens if the retenstion bolt shears or the T-bar snaps...all that big tire will now be all in your wheel well as you careen down the road ricocheing off all the other drivers...not cool
Find some other "budget boost" system and do it right.

 

[gm4x4lover]

4 inches of lift should do it. I have seen a few like that and they look pretty good.

 

[sniderexciderr]

i have heard of that making it ride rough, and deep down pretty hesitant to do that. i want my suspension to work, not just be there to hold the tires out of the fenders. i have never done it and this is the first time i have heard of anything that severe as a result. would a torsion key have the same effect?

 

[jeepdreamer]

I'm no expert...

First off, I've only dealt with a handful of torsion vehicles. But of all the ones I have ridden in that had the bars cranked up rode like...doodoo. Much like adding a longer shackle to a leaf spring only adds half the desired effect, the required amount of additional stress needed to be applied to raise the vehicle is excessive. Could you? Sure. Would I? Never. Lift kits are not cheap...I am but they are not. But that still doesn't make me find a cheaper way to avoid something engineered far better than I can do. That is in part why all my vehicles are leaf sprung. Less complicated and I know what i can and can not do within saftey limits. For me and more esp. those I share the road with.
You may have better luck on one of the Ford specific boards for learning about your application. I wish I was better versed to offer you some useful ideas...sorry.

 

[Larry]

Actually, raising the torsion bars is not where the rough ride comes from. It is the fact that after the torsion bars are raised the control arms are closer to the bump stops and the shocks bottom out easily. Bump stops hitting and shocks bottom out is where the rough ride comes from.

I have the bars cranked on one of my Silverado’s. It road terrible until I trimmed the bumpstop/aux spring and added a shock extension. Problem solved and rides like stock again with a few more inches of ground clearance.

Cognito Motorsports, who is a well respected suspension tuner agrees. See…

http://cognitomotorsports.com/store/page36.html

From their website:
It is a fallacy that cranking the torsion bars up on a vehicle stiffens the ride. This just is not true, but cranking the torsion bars can affect other areas of the suspension system that will give a harsh ride. Just cranking the torsion bars, or adding the new adjuster’s preloads the suspension more to raise the height of the front of the vehicle. The problem is that the shocks and upper control arms bottom out to soon, giving the harsh ride. By cranking the torsion bars, you are not changing the spring rate of the torsion bars.

 

[sniderexciderr]

well i'm not exactly looking for a cheap way to lift it. i'm fully prepared to pay more for a good lift, the thing is if i can safely get a few more inches for that clearance and also make it somewhat easy to uninstall if i had to, to get it back stateside. thats the real question.

the shock extension/shaved bump sounds good, i'll look into that. an extended shock made for a say, 2-3" lift would have the same effect right? its about time for new shocks anyway.

 

[ujoint]

I've done a few Expeditions on 35's, and I would recommend a 6" lift. I used RCD in the past, awesome kit!

 

[JCMatthews]

My current rig is an '01 Epedition. I run a metric tire that measures 33x12.5. I Can't imagine why one would need a 6" lift to get two more inches of tire under the truck. I would think that with new 2" torsion keys, longer shocks, and a good rear spacer, you would be fine going bigger. My Expy has the air ride in the rear and I am going to adjust my sensor location so the computer will give two inches in the air bags. With torsion keys in the front, I hope to run one size taller tire. I will probably go with something a little skinnier. I like them tall and skinny.

 

[bdbecker]

I tightened the torsion bars on my '03 F150, but did not "crank" them to their max level because all I wanted to do was get clearance for my 285/75R16 (32.8" diameter) tires. My truck still sits with a slight rake toward the front, and I did not notice any real difference in how it handled or rode. There is a sweet spot on these trucks where you can increase clearance without compromising durability of front end components. Here's some information from a user on an F150 specific forum who has had expirence with both lift keys and torsion bar crank:

Here's my experience... I had stock cranked keys maxed out for a while and said screw it and got the keys just to try out for $40 bucks... They're not worth the money unless
Pros: If you have extra weight on the front ie: plow, brush guard, winch bumper, etc... anything that forces the front end down so much that the stock keys cant get the front end up to a safely cranked or factory position...

Cons: I blew one CV boot and had to replace both lower ball joints (bout $110 and an hour and a half of my time) No biggie... But who's to say that they weren't already on they're way out? Well I'll say that the CV boot had obvious wear from contacting itself on the inner drivers boot till it got so thin (like paper) it ripped... it also rode like a brick

I did research on here and compiled measurements at which people had damage or not and how many miles after the "crank"... the safest max height would be to butt a tape to the bottom of the fender flare and measure down to the dead center of your wheel (this factors out tire sizes)... I personally wouldn't go more than 24-24 1/4" (add for body lifts) which you can achieve with stock keys if you don't have extra weight on the front... any more and you're gonna be replacing front end components prematurely and riding stiff IMO, there is also a droopstop under the rear of the UCA (big steel tumor of a block attached to the frame) and if you crank lift keys to about 24 5/8" + you'll be slamming that on the other side of a speed bump or into a pot hole Haha Not a good sound and definitely not good for the UCAs...

Keys WILL NOT maintain factory ride, that's not my opinion its physics... the key do not change spring rate, stiffness or anything... they turn the bar just the way stock keys do just more room for more "crank" The reason the ride stiffens is because your LCAs are pointing more downward and initial shock is forced straight up into the frame intead on the pivot (hard to explain without using my hands haha) Like if you do a split across two chairs and someone on each side lifts the chairs ubruptly, your bound to rip your ball joints less resistance than if you were standin in a karate stance "stiffer" (cranked keys) Haha No I didn't try it

So 24 1/4" max I'd say... People on here have run 10k like that with no problems... I did about 7k at 24 1/2" + and blew a boot and possibly ball joints

http://www.f150forum.com/f6/truth-about-llift-keys-all-opinions-welcome-56399/index2/

To address your original question about what it takes to fit 35's on your Expedition, I can only speak to what I know about fitting 33's to the front, and the right way to do it will involve more than just a t-bar crank, as several others have already mentioned. From what I can see on my truck, you will probably have rubbing issues on the rear part of the fender well, not just the lower valance. A body lift will help resolve this, but a true suspension lift would be the right, long term solution for a vehicle that will be used and not just looked at.

That brings me to my 2nd (or is it 3rd?) point - at what point is 1" extra ground clearance (33's vs 35's) worth the headache and expense of a full suspension lift? This is exactly the same question I had to ask myself when I started making changes to my truck. I decided to save the $1200+ I was going to use on a suspension lift, and apply it elsewhere. There are a lot of Expo vehicles out there that have similar ground clearance to my truck, and can make it through a lot of terrain. Plus, if you decide to ship your vehicle back home, getting it to fit in a container will be much easier - get a set of used 265/55 (or near/smaller size) tires on some factory steel wheels, and you truck will lose 3" or more of overall height in a matter of minutes when compared to running 33's. If you were running a full suspension or body lift, getting it to fit into a container would be a heck of a lot more difficult and time intensive.

Here's how the ole girl looks today with 33's on her, I have my t-bars snugged to 24" between the top of the fender and center of the wheel.

 

[NorthernWoodsman]

I tightened the torsion bars on my '03 F150, but did not "crank" them to their max level because all I wanted to do was get clearance for my 285/75R16 (32.8" diameter) tires. My truck still sits with a slight rake toward the front, and I did not notice any real difference in how it handled or rode. There is a sweet spot on these trucks where you can increase clearance without compromising durability of front end components. Here's some information from a user on an F150 specific forum who has had expirence with both lift keys and torsion bar crank:



http://www.f150forum.com/f6/truth-about-llift-keys-all-opinions-welcome-56399/index2/

To address your original question about what it takes to fit 35's on your Expedition, I can only speak to what I know about fitting 33's to the front, and the right way to do it will involve more than just a t-bar crank, as several others have already mentioned. From what I can see on my truck, you will probably have rubbing issues on the rear part of the fender well, not just the lower valance. A body lift will help resolve this, but a true suspension lift would be the right, long term solution for a vehicle that will be used and not just looked at.

That brings me to my 2nd (or is it 3rd?) point - at what point is 1" extra ground clearance (33's vs 35's) worth the headache and expense of a full suspension lift? This is exactly the same question I had to ask myself when I started making changes to my truck. I decided to save the $1200+ I was going to use on a suspension lift, and apply it elsewhere. There are a lot of Expo vehicles out there that have similar ground clearance to my truck, and can make it through a lot of terrain. Plus, if you decide to ship your vehicle back home, getting it to fit in a container will be much easier - get a set of used 265/55 (or near/smaller size) tires on some factory steel wheels, and you truck will lose 3" or more of overall height in a matter of minutes when compared to running 33's. If you were running a full suspension or body lift, getting it to fit into a container would be a heck of a lot more difficult and time intensive.

Here's how the ole girl looks today with 33's on her, I have my t-bars snugged to 24" between the top of the fender and center of the wheel.

I love those wheels! Do you have a better photo of them? And what brand/model are they?

 

[sniderexciderr]

yeah, my first plan was the rcd 5" but i figured that it would cause shipping problems down the road when i return to the states. and that is also a good point about the 33s -35s is it worth all the trouble for the extra 1" of clearance. going with 33s may be the best bet for right now and just wheel it like that then when i get it back state side i can do whatever i want with the suspension. besides i should only have about 1 to 1 1/2 yrs left in europe. so i need to just get busy with the exploration while i have the chance. thanks for all the input!

 

[bdbecker]

I love those wheels! Do you have a better photo of them? And what brand/model are they?

Eagle Alloy Series 101. Mine are polished, but they also come in chrome and black. Sorry, I guess I don't have any pictures of just the wheels.

 

[jdholder]

Fiberglass front fenders and stock height should work to get you to 35's.

As a point of reference (And I know it's not an apples to apples comparison) - Stock height on an EXCURSION (I know) is 32" tire. I fit 40's on mine with a 4" lift and fiberglass fenders. Most other people were recommending an 8 to 12"" lift to fit 40's.

Bigger, wider, deeper fenders is what you are looking for. Just give the big tires more room. You may need to trim your rear fenders also, but it's worth it in my opinion.

 

[sniderexciderr]

Fiberglass front fenders and stock height should work to get you to 35's.

As a point of reference (And I know it's not an apples to apples comparison) - Stock height on an EXCURSION (I know) is 32" tire. I fit 40's on mine with a 4" lift and fiberglass fenders. Most other people were recommending an 8 to 12"" lift to fit 40's.

Bigger, wider, deeper fenders is what you are looking for. Just give the big tires more room. You may need to trim your rear fenders also, but it's worth it in my opinion.

trimming the fenders crossed my mind too but i'd like to see where the boost will get me first. leave the cutting to a last resort. and i'm not sure i'mm willing to chop it up just yet. i'll leave that for something a little bigger then 35's and i think i'll wait to get some trail rash on the body first.:smiley_drive:

i have found some longer shock options i feel pretty good about. but they are an inch or so longer (full compressed) then the stock ones i think. but i think if i can find a way to extend the bump stop a little they will work out good. (i think) and with the larger tires i think i might be better off with a little taller bump stop... if i can get away with longer shocks and be able to keep it from slamming down and damaging the shock i'm ok with that.

the extended and compressed length i found for a rancho shock made for stock height is:
Extended: 14.25"
Collapsed: 9.75"

can someone verify that it is pretty close to the stock shock? i searched and that is the best i could come up with as a reference point.