Clutch vs. Traction Control?

[AdventureHare]

I'm considering a Jeep Renegade with manual transmission and it has a sophisticated traction control system. With the 9-spd auto trans, the technique is simple, maintain a constant throttle and let the electronics manage the wheel spin and restore/maintain forward motion. What is the technique with a manual trans? I was watching a 1.4L, manual Renegade video and the driver was driving as if there weren't any traction control, using the clutch slip to try to control tire spin. The electronics weren't given an opportunity to work, and the engine stalled several times without any progress because the tire with traction was not given an opportunity to drive.

So, with the excellent computer control with multiple modes, what is the technique for a manual trans? Is there still a need to slip the clutch? My initial feeling was that the tires need to spin and so the clutch needs to be engaged (limiting the slip and get tires spinning), and only disengaged to prevent stalling or breakage. Is that possible? Are the electronics only useful once momentum is established? Any experience or opinion is welcome.

 

[calicamper]

Propper clutch use is either on or off not slipping. Engine braking does not have ABS. All the advanced traction systems leverage independant braking at each corner to push power across open diffs.

 

[kojackJKU]

I would just get the automatic. They are far advanced of what they wre in the old slushbox days. That way, you can just let the traction control and BLD do their work instead of you trying to do their work for them. Plus, then you don't have to row your jeep around all day.

 

[Fursphere]

I have to agree. As much as I love the AX15 in my XJ, it does get a little tiresome constantly shifting the thing. My next rig will probably be an automatic. (Unless its something from the 1940s... hehe)

 

[(none)]

Rock the manual. The traction control works just fine with it, just takes some getting used to. It only works when the tires are spinning any ways, and you have to be on the throttle to have the tires spinning.
I like to feel the system work on my JK. I'll try to mess around on obstacles and see what the system will do before locking the diffs. It's very surprising how much it'll get it through.

 

[AgentOrange76]

Personally, I'll never ever give up my manual. I also agree with calicamper, in my experience it's much easier to be in gear and rolling and let the engine and gears do the crawling and leave the clutch alone. That may change on knralier obstacles or just be an opinion, I'm not sure, but the technique has worked very well for me and my buddy who ride the clutch changed driving style to match because it worked better. I also can't speak for electronic nannies as I have none. Hope this helps!

 

[kojackJKU]

I used to swear off automatics. Then, I bought an automatic subaru off my father. No its not as sporty driving around....BUUUUUTTTTTTT, You put it in gear, go, drink your coffee while you are in traffic, etc. Unless its a full blown sports car thats NOT my daily driver, I will never own another manual...

 

[Hilldweller]

Personally, I'll never ever give up my manual. I also agree with calicamper, in my experience it's much easier to be in gear and rolling and let the engine and gears do the crawling and leave the clutch alone. That may change on knralier obstacles or just be an opinion, I'm not sure, but the technique has worked very well for me and my buddy who ride the clutch changed driving style to match because it worked better. I also can't speak for electronic nannies as I have none. Hope this helps!

I have a JK manual with the LSD in the rear. If it looks really ugly, I roll up to it in 4-low and idle over it. The LSD plus BLDs do just fine.
As has been stated, clutch is all or nothing. I don't like the smell of burnt clutch...

Autotrans is easier. Manual trans is more fun. I luvs me my manual.

 

[AdventureHare]

So, in the video I was watching, the technique being displayed was wrong independent of the vehicle. I guess it's called 'crawling' for a reason. :ylsmoke:

Although, I didn't want this to be an 'Auto vs. Man' discussion:
With the Renegade, transmission choice also means an engine choice, and with that, $$$. The manual trans means 1.4L turbo, better fuel economy, lower MSRP, and a bigger discount from the dealer as they're far less popular. I've seen several reports of the auto-9-spd not actually going into 9th and mileage suffering as a result (2-3 mpg). There are aftermarket TCU programs that address that but not sure if they're worth it. Personally, I've only had one vehicle (out of 20+) that had an auto trans, '67 Ford Falcon w/ 289 & C4. With that said, I would get an auto TH Renegade, or TH Cherokee, if I could find one used that's a good value.

 

[Mass_Mopar]

The only way to tell is to drive them both and see which one you like more. I drove a Renegade Trailhawk last year, and while I liked it, it certainly felt more like "all-weather commuter" and "dirt road on the weekend" than serious overlander. I drove the 2.4/9spd and it did alright on the highway and on my off-road test, but I don't know how well it would do fully loaded going up an incline. It certainly is small, nimble, and capable if that's what you need. I ended up buying a JKU with the manual.

 

[SnowedIn]

I've seen the Renegade Trailhawks in places that are rough enough to indicate they'd work most places in the US/Canada if driven skillfully. I think the bigger question with them is payload capacity.

Are people still complaining about the software in the 9-speed auto? I like autos, but there is a certain attraction to how stout the manuals can be in small vehicles.

 

[AdventureHare]

I've seen the Renegade Trailhawks in places that are rough enough to indicate they'd work most places in the US/Canada if driven skillfully.

Well, that's not going to happen... :smiley_drive: I think that's why I started this thread.

Are people still complaining about the software in the 9-speed auto?

Yes. But it's definitely calmed down from '14. Most people wouldn't notice that the trans is only occasionally going into 9th, unless they begin to investigate why they're not getting the EPA ratings. When you factor in the manual does get the EPA ratings, the difference in MPG becomes significant (~20%).

I have driven a Latitude with the manual and found it to be very similar to my '08 xB (2.4L w/ manual, owned since new), which I think is a compliment. And the increase in MPG with 4WD would be very appreciated.

 

[Hilldweller]

I recently had a '16 Challenger as a loaner car, 9-speed, and was getting 26 mpg with it when I drove it nanny-style. It really impressed me. Not sure if I ever hit 9th but the trans delivered as far as I was concerned. Hard to believe that it was a 3.6 Pentastar just like my Jeep. It really could pony-up and move.

 

[kojackJKU]

Yeah, my bro has the same car. IT can scoot for a penta-jesus motor. I would still rather the SRT he was looking at first however...ha ha!

I rented a new cherokee last fall when I was in montreal.... Drove it for 5 days and loved it. The transmission delivered on every front. It was a great all around vehicle to drive. I was more impressed than I thought I would be. If you could get a couple of extra inches on it via lift, in the trailhawk, i would probably get one.

 

[joelbert]

recall 9 speeds

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorz...nine-speed-transmission-finally/#174b70935343